Noob question! 3rd's 5th's 7th's 10th's?

[tantummenace]

I'm a noob bassist as you will see in the following question.... What are 7th's and 3rd's etc? As in when someone say Dm7 or to play it a 3rd or a 10th lower? I hear this a lot in videos so I believe it must be important! I've only been playing for a short amount of time and I want to avoid being the stereotypical bassist and learn my sh*t!

Oh and how do I play them?

Edited August 13, 2017 by tantummenace

[TheGreek]

It's to do with the notes in the scale - there are 8 in the octave - 3rd refers to the 3rd note in the scale, 7th to the 7th note and so on. The scale actually goes on so a 9th is the same as a 2nd but one octave up. I'm sure there is a video (free) on the SBL,com website - Scott is a great teacher/player.

[leftybassman392]

Learn how to play scales. Any number of online sources. Better yet, get a decent tutor.

[tantummenace]

Yeah I've been watching SBL's and I saw that he has made a video about it when someone wrote about it in the comments.... Can't seem to find it though!

[GarethFlatlands]

And if you want to make a chord (or know what bass notes will 'go' with it), you'll usually need the root (or 1st), the 3rd and the 5th and any other notes in the chord.

If we look at the C major scale, the notes are C, D, E, F, G, A, and B. It we assign each it's number we get;-

C(1), D(2), E(3), F(4), G(5), A(6), B(7).

So to make a Cmaj7 chord, we'll need, 1, 3 5 and 7 so C, E, G and B.

This works with any scale so learn your scales!

[TheGreek]

Loads out there:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bvgAbWRdIA[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX3U-59in-E[/media]

https://www.studybass.com/study-guide/studybass-fundamentals-two/major-scales-and-chord-patterns/

Edited August 13, 2017 by TheGreek

[tantummenace]

Thanks Gareth... So is it always the 2nd chord you use? i.e --- A B C D E F G to make a AMaj7 it would be A C E G right? Or am I very wrong haha

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='tantummenace' timestamp='1502643846' post='3352652']
Thanks Gareth... So is it always the 2nd chord you use? i.e --- A B C D E F G to make a AMaj7 it would be A C E G right? Or am I very wrong haha
[/quote]

Not quite! That's the A minor scale (the same notes as C major) so you're making a minor 7th chord rather than a major 7th. Not sure what you mean by 2nd chord?

The A major scale is A, B C#, D, E, F#, G# so making Amaj7 with 1, 3, 5, 7 would be A, C#, E, G#.

[atsampson]

Can I recommend [url="http://tobyrush.com/theorypages/"]Music Theory for Musicians and Normal People[/url]? The first section is a pretty good introduction to this sort of thing.

[tantummenace]

Thanks guys!

[Coilte]

Chords are made by using what the Americans call.."stacking thirds"...i.e. every other note in a scale...e.g. 1,3,5,7, etc

A Cmaj scale has the notes CDEFGAB The word "diatonic" means .."pertaining to only that scale. There are seven diatonic chords in the Maj scale.

Lets take the C major scale and show how it's diatonic chords are made. To do so, we will stack thirds FROM THE BOTTOM UP. starting with the major scale and starting every line with the third note from the line below.

ABCDEFG
FGABCDE
DEFGABC
BCDEFGA
GABCDEF....G is the third note from the line below
EFGABCD ....E is the third note from the line below
CDEFGAB = C maj scale


Now...if we read the lines from LEFT TO RIGHT, and FROM THE BOTTOM UP we get all the diatonic chords (1-7) for the C maj scale.

For example...the first line gives us CEGBDFA. The first three notes here (CEG) gives us the C major chord. If we take the fourth note B..we het CEGB...CMaj7.

The second line (left to right and from the bottom up) using the first three notes is DFA which is Dminor.

Going through each line like this will give us the remainder of the chords in the Cmaj scale.

Hope this does not completely confuse you.


A similar (and maybe ...better ) explanation is here :

http://musictheorysite.com/major-diatonic-chords/

Edited August 13, 2017 by Coilte

[Steve Woodcock]

Below is an information sheet on intervals that I give to all my new students, it contains all that you need to know:

[url="http://stevewoodcockbass.com/onewebmedia/Basic%20Theory%201.3%20-%20Intervals.pdf"]http://stevewoodcock...20Intervals.pdf[/url]

And here is a video tutorial I made on seventh chords, including a play along exercise to help you learn them:

[media]http://youtu.be/rY4rkG2pX1Q[/media]

[louisthebass]

It really depends on the chord quality when it comes to 7ths & 3rds.

Any Maj7 chord contains the following intervals - 1 (root) Maj 3rd, Perfect 5th, Maj7th.
Any Min 7 chord contains - 1 (root), b3rd, Perfect 5th, b7th.
Any 7 (or Dom 7) chord contains - 1 (root), Maj 3rd, Perfect 5th, b7th
Any Min 7b5 chord contains - 1 (root), b3rd, b5th, b7th.

You'll only encounter these three types of chords from a Harmonised Major Scale in any key:
I Maj7th
II Minor 7th
III Minor 7th
IV Maj 7th
V Dom 7th (or 7 chord)
VI Minor 7th
VII Min 7b5

As you're still in the early stages, it's a good idea to have at least that under your belt as the vast majority of Rock & Pop music from the last 50/60 years uses chord progressions from the info above.

Edited August 14, 2017 by louisthebass

[ivansc]

Worth mentioning that if you really know your scale intervals, you are halfway to learning the Nashville Numbers System. A huge help if you are working with a singer who needs to sing a song in other than the written key.

[tantummenace]

Thanks everyone you have really helped my understanding of this!

[TimR]

I'm not sure what happens when someone asks you to play down a 3rd. That would take a bit of mental gymnasitics as usually the degree of the scale is going up. Effectively down a 3rd means up a 5th and down an octave or more properly they should be saying "Down to the 5th".

Intervals are usually up, not down.

Also don't be tempted to play Maj3 or m3 notes as part of a chord along with the root on a bass. Unless you're playing well up the register it'll just sound like mud.

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[lowdown]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1502794655' post='3353555']
Totally incorrect. Intervals and scale degrees are separate entities and function both "up and down" in music.
An interval is the distance between 2 notes - in either direction. C to E is a major 3rd. Thats up 4 semitones. To go down a major 3rd we go down 4 semitones to Ab. Minor 3rd is 3 semitones so up to Eb and down to A, respectively.
When it gets confusing for folks is when we talk about going between notes in different octaves: C up to E is a major 3rd interval and the 3rd degree of the scale/chord (assuming we're in Cmajor etc); C down to E is still the 3rd of the chord/scale, but the interval is a minor 6th.
So "down a 3rd" means up a 3rd and down an octave. No 5th involved.
Also, VERY important to clarify whether the instruction is to go down a major or minor third. Lots of rock/pop stuff isnt strictly diatonic in terms of the chords often being A5 D5 type of vibe, so a diatonic guess might be off and chances are a juicy Ab bass note might not sit too well with an A5 powerchord... Ears open as well!
[/quote]

Summed up nicely.

[TimR]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1502794655' post='3353555']

Totally incorrect. Intervals and scale degrees are separate entities and function both "up and down" in music.
An interval is the distance between 2 notes - in either direction. C to E is a major 3rd. Thats up 4 semitones. To go down a major 3rd we go down 4 semitones to Ab. Minor 3rd is 3 semitones so up to Eb and down to A, respectively.
When it gets confusing for folks is when we talk about going between notes in different octaves: C up to E is a major 3rd interval and the 3rd degree of the scale/chord (assuming we're in Cmajor etc); C down to E is still the 3rd of the chord/scale, but the interval is a minor 6th.
So "down a 3rd" means up a 3rd and down an octave. No 5th involved.
Also, VERY important to clarify whether the instruction is to go down a major or minor third. Lots of rock/pop stuff isnt strictly diatonic in terms of the chords often being A5 D5 type of vibe, so a diatonic guess might be off and chances are a juicy Ab bass note might not sit too well with an A5 powerchord... Ears open as well!
[/quote]

Sorry a 6th.

I disagree that down a major 3rd from C can be down to Ab. That makes no sense as there are no flats in the key of C.

But this is where it gets confusing. You are going down a 6th to the 3rd. Which is odd as there are only 8 notes in an octave.

.

Edited August 15, 2017 by TimR

[Dad3353]

[DaveFry]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1502806164' post='3353655']

[/quote]

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[TimR]

Ok. It's actually more simple than it first appears.

You subtract the interval from 9 and major becomes minor and vice versa.

Thanks for that. No wonder I always get confused going down intervals (although it's very rare that it's called)

E.g.
Down a m2 is up a Maj7
Down a Maj2 is up a m7
Down a m3 is up a Maj6.
Down a Maj3 is up a m6
Etc

Is that right?

[TheGreek]

[quote name='tantummenace' timestamp='1502721513' post='3353091']
Thanks everyone you have really helped my understanding of this!
[/quote]


Are you sure?? This seems overly complicated to me and I've been playing for years....

[T-Bay]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1502809450' post='3353686']



Are you sure?? This seems overly complicated to me and I've been playing for years....
[/quote]
As a newish player I have watched this with interest, I am sad to report that I now haven't got a clue! Back to the books and tabs for me :-(