Is using a dep a good idea?

[oldslapper]

I do wonder what percentage of an audience would be able to tell (or care) if a band member was deputising for another...Front person aside....let alone notice any musical nuance a dep brought.

[seashell]

[quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1502899729' post='3354288']

Clear & timely communication is key on both parts, if you use a dep.

This includes (from the band);
Songs
Keys
Song Arrangements
Venue
Times
Important image considerations (yes this is important see BRX above)
I have turned up for a video shoot with the "wrong" bass as the agent forgot to communicate that they wanted a vintage instrument, not a jazz bass..and I didn't ask beforehand.
Also give more than one contact number out for the day of the event.

If you can find a recommended dep, all the better.

Most deps I know aren't after your job, and have a number of different reasons for depping. I've played gig's where the regular bassist has turned up & we've had a lovely chat afterwards.
There's a facebook page for dep musicians I believe?

Sorry, gone on a bit.
John
[/quote]

Thanks for 'going on', John! This is an interesting checklist for me as I have my first (proper) dep gig coming up on Sat and I'm still a bit concerned about a couple of the things on your list.
In particular, song arrangements. They are all Rolling Stones covers, one or two in different keys which they have told me of in advance and I'm fine with. It's just the arrangements I'm concerned about. If they are exactly as per the original recording then fine, but if they suddenly chuck in an extra chorus or do a longer/shorter intro then I'll need to be on my toes! Also how are they ending the ones that fade out on recordings?

Plus I still don't know the estimated start time. Just been told we're 'last on'. Also been told 'don't worry, have fun, it's just a charity gig'. I'm not really comfortable with that attitude - there is still an audience there who are going to want to enjoy it. I don't expect they'll mind if I don't sound exactly like Bill Wyman, but I think they might notice if I'm still playing a final chorus when the rest of the band have stopped, lol! :-)

Having said all that, I'm still looking forward to it. I was really pleased to be asked (I previously played in a different Stones covers band and sax player who is in both bands recommended me). And I love playing all those old Stones hits, so as long as I turn up at the right place and time I think I can probably wing it!!! :-)

[Dad3353]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1502969493' post='3354716']...how are they ending the ones that fade out on recordings?...
[/quote]

You've not been listening to the lyrics, or what..?

"A-well, you know, my love, a-not fade away..." (excuse the familiarity... )

[dand666]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1502969493' post='3354716']
Thanks for 'going on', John! This is an interesting checklist for me as I have my first (proper) dep gig coming up on Sat and I'm still a bit concerned about a couple of the things on your list.
In particular, song arrangements. They are all Rolling Stones covers, one or two in different keys which they have told me of in advance and I'm fine with. It's just the arrangements I'm concerned about. If they are exactly as per the original recording then fine, but if they suddenly chuck in an extra chorus or do a longer/shorter intro then I'll need to be on my toes! Also how are they ending the ones that fade out on recordings?

Plus I still don't know the estimated start time. Just been told we're 'last on'. Also been told 'don't worry, have fun, it's just a charity gig'. I'm not really comfortable with that attitude - there is still an audience there who are going to want to enjoy it. I don't expect they'll mind if I don't sound exactly like Bill Wyman, but I think they might notice if I'm still playing a final chorus when the rest of the band have stopped, lol! :-)

Having said all that, I'm still looking forward to it. I was really pleased to be asked (I previously played in a different Stones covers band and sax player who is in both bands recommended me). And I love playing all those old Stones hits, so as long as I turn up at the right place and time I think I can probably wing it!!! :-)
[/quote]

Mate, it never goes wrong. With Dep gigs, just look at the drummer. All the time, beginning and end, then you're fine.

I don't do pubs as I can't live off them, but functions/weddings/originals I can and dep on these as a Job. It's my role as a session player that's all.

[quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1502968119' post='3354707']
I do wonder what percentage of an audience would be able to tell (or care) if a band member was deputising for another...Front person aside....let alone notice any musical nuance a dep brought.
[/quote]

Never really. Like I said the majority of agency gigs on the weekends are just 4/5 guys chucked in a band together to play the standard wedding setlist. Everyone loves it, everyone is happy. Everyone gets paid. :-)

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1502969493' post='3354716']
Thanks for 'going on', John! This is an interesting checklist for me as I have my first (proper) dep gig coming up on Sat and I'm still a bit concerned about a couple of the things on your list.
In particular, song arrangements. They are all Rolling Stones covers, one or two in different keys which they have told me of in advance and I'm fine with. It's just the arrangements I'm concerned about. If they are exactly as per the original recording then fine, but if they suddenly chuck in an extra chorus or do a longer/shorter intro then I'll need to be on my toes! Also how are they ending the ones that fade out on recordings?

Plus I still don't know the estimated start time. Just been told we're 'last on'. Also been told 'don't worry, have fun, it's just a charity gig'. I'm not really comfortable with that attitude - there is still an audience there who are going to want to enjoy it. I don't expect they'll mind if I don't sound exactly like Bill Wyman, but I think they might notice if I'm still playing a final chorus when the rest of the band have stopped, lol! :-)

Having said all that, I'm still looking forward to it. I was really pleased to be asked (I previously played in a different Stones covers band and sax player who is in both bands recommended me). And I love playing all those old Stones hits, so as long as I turn up at the right place and time I think I can probably wing it!!! :-)
[/quote]this sort of cropped up at recent gig, a friends band were doing Holiday in Cambodia, as we do, our singer was asked to go up on guest vocals of course up he gets, I'm thinking I wonder if they're doing the album or single version, I counted the length of the solo, single version, as we do, they get to the end where we do the album version outro, our singer did it, the rest of the band did the shorter single version, a complete car crash ensued

[TimR]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1502966924' post='3354694']
I find it both amusing and instructive to see the differing attitudes of folks to the notion of change. Some with a hyper-conservative attitude ('It wouldn't be the same...'), others welcoming the fresh approach brought by a relative stranger to the affair. No judgement here; both are legitimate, and perfectly respectable, but interesting just the same to imagine the differing personalities behind these reactions, highlighting the vast diversity of BC, and, to an extent, the population in general. A gold mine for the psychologists among us..!
Just sayin'.
[/quote]

I think it's an experience and comfort thing rather than strictly a personality thing. The more bands you play in, the more different musicians you play with, the more often you step out of your comfort zone and it just becomes easier to do.

I played in a band where the drummer was adamant we'd never get deps in as it wouldn't work. When the Guitarist couldn't make a fairly big gig at short notice I said let's get a dep. The drummer threw a hissy fit and said it would be terrible, he won't play with a dep, pulled out and said to cancel the gig. So we bought in a dep drummer as well.

The gig actually went better than usual.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1502975489' post='3354794']
I played in a band where the drummer was adamant we'd never get deps in as it wouldn't work. When the Guitarist couldn't make a fairly big gig at short notice I said let's get a dep. The drummer threw a hissy fit and said it would be terrible, he won't play with a dep, pulled out and said to cancel the gig. So we bought in a dep drummer as well.

The gig actually went better than usual.
[/quote]

That's sir is brilliant..😂😂

[oldslapper]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1502969493' post='3354716']


Thanks for 'going on', John! This is an interesting checklist for me as I have my first (proper) dep gig coming up on Sat and I'm still a bit concerned about a couple of the things on your list.
In particular, song arrangements. They are all Rolling Stones covers, one or two in different keys which they have told me of in advance and I'm fine with. It's just the arrangements I'm concerned about. If they are exactly as per the original recording then fine, but if they suddenly chuck in an extra chorus or do a longer/shorter intro then I'll need to be on my toes! Also how are they ending the ones that fade out on recordings?

Plus I still don't know the estimated start time. Just been told we're 'last on'. Also been told 'don't worry, have fun, it's just a charity gig'. I'm not really comfortable with that attitude - there is still an audience there who are going to want to enjoy it. I don't expect they'll mind if I don't sound exactly like Bill Wyman, but I think they might notice if I'm still playing a final chorus when the rest of the band have stopped, lol! :-)

Having said all that, I'm still looking forward to it. I was really pleased to be asked (I previously played in a different Stones covers band and sax player who is in both bands recommended me). And I love playing all those old Stones hits, so as long as I turn up at the right place and time I think I can probably wing it!!! :-)
[/quote]

I'm sure you'll be fine. It's always helpful to have an advocate in the band, as you & the band can blame them if it doesn't go as well as hoped! 😁

If I'm unsure about topping/tailing of songs, I generally ask if they can be part of the sound check...if possible. But, as someone else said, take cues from drummist so ensure you talk to them first & agree some visual cues between you.
Most of all have fun, and remember you're the reason why the gig can happen.

John

[TimR]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1502976743' post='3354811']
There is no definitive answer to this. For all the 'we had two deps and it went better than usual' anecdotes there are just as many that ended in a car crash. Don't get me wrong, a lot of my gigs are dep positions and I really enjoy doing it, but with the tribute band we made the decision early on that it would be too much aggravation. Not a vanity thing, just a decision for that particular band. All the other bands I play in regularly use deps.
[/quote]

That's fair enough. It really depends on the people who want to do the gig. I suppose if the band leader says no, you're not doing the gig as it'll affect the image and the rest of the musicians still want to do the gig, youneitger have a mutiny or they do the gig under a different name.

It also depends quite a bit on why the (insert musician here) can't make the gig. I've played in bands where one member refused to play certain types of gigs, or gigs travelling more than an hour. The rest of the band got tired of never doing any gigs.

[peteb]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1502975489' post='3354794']
I think it's an experience and comfort thing rather than strictly a personality thing. The more bands you play in, the more different musicians you play with, the more often you step out of your comfort zone and it just becomes easier to do.

I played in a band where the drummer was adamant we'd never get deps in as it wouldn't work. When the Guitarist couldn't make a fairly big gig at short notice I said let's get a dep. The drummer threw a hissy fit and said it would be terrible, he won't play with a dep, pulled out and said to cancel the gig. So we bought in a dep drummer as well.

The gig actually went better than usual.
[/quote]
I once did a dep gig where the only full time member was the singer (although though the dep drummer used to play nearly as many of their gigs as the official drummer).

A couple of months later they did a gig where everybody on stage was a dep - even the singer / band leader couldn't make t...!

Edited August 17, 2017 by peteb

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1502984190' post='3354873']
I once did a dep gig where the only full time member was the singer (although though the dep drummer used to play nearly as many of their gigs as the official drummer).

A couple of months later they did a gig where everybody on stage was a dep - even the singer / band leader couldn't make t...!
[/quote]wasn't Dr Feelgood was it?

[gapiro]

[quote name='dand666' timestamp='1502974000' post='3354763']
Mate, it never goes wrong. With Dep gigs, just look at the drummer. All the time, beginning and end, then you're fine.

I don't do pubs as I can't live off them, but functions/weddings/originals I can and dep on these as a Job. It's my role as a session player that's all.



Never really. Like I said the majority of agency gigs on the weekends are just 4/5 guys chucked in a band together to play the standard wedding setlist. Everyone loves it, everyone is happy. Everyone gets paid. :-)
[/quote]
+1
Put the effort in beforehand, gig is easy. Listening is about 40% of the gig, homework is about 40% and only 20% is playing. I do a lot of gigs the same as you say - 3-8 guys thrown together for a gig, singer sends out song list with keys a minimum of a week in advance, turn up, no rehearsal, play gig, get paid , go home.

[BigRedX]

Have any originals bands used a Dep? Or have anyone here Depped with an originals band?

How did it go? In my case as described [url=http://basschat.co.uk/topic/310399-should-i-cancel-gig-i-am-going-to-for-my-bands-gig/page__view__findpost__p__3354111]here[/url] it was OK but ultimately I don't think it did the band any favours, and in retrospect we probably shouldn't have played the gigs in the first place.

[stingrayPete1977]

Lots of big name professional artists performing original material use deps on every gig, they are called musicians!

[dand666]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1503052504' post='3355326']
Lots of big name professional artists performing original material use deps on every gig, they are called musicians!
[/quote]
This.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1502908713' post='3354353']
still not heard from anybody that's hired a dep and it's not worked out for whatever reason, have they always been a success then? because I've seen them, one dep guitarist I saw used a music stand (fair enough) but was really low in the mix, when you could hear him you knew why
[/quote]

Well since no one else has picked up on this, I'll offer what I can.

I was invited to dep a few years ago for an Elvis tribute act appearing at a private party.

The line-up was built around a genuine, honest-to-God Elvis impersonator, Vegas jumpsuit era with the hair and the shades, who was a regular performer on the Elvis circuit using backing tapes.

He had two guitars, bass and drums. One guitarist was a regular member of a Shadows tribute band. The other guitarist and the drummer were one half of a gigging heavy metal band. And then there was me.

We had a single rehearsal in a studio somewhere down Streatham way, which didn't go particularly well, and then it was show time.

That gig remains in my memory as the single worst gig I have ever been involved with in any capacity.

To this day, listening to the recordings brings tears to me eyes. And that's not just because I'm laughing so much.

[TimR]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1503050124' post='3355302']
Have any originals bands used a Dep? Or have anyone here Depped with an originals band?

How did it go? In my case as described [url=http://basschat.co.uk/topic/310399-should-i-cancel-gig-i-am-going-to-for-my-bands-gig/page__view__findpost__p__3354111]here[/url] it was OK but ultimately I don't think it did the band any favours, and in retrospect we probably shouldn't have played the gigs in the first place.
[/quote]

I depped with an originals band. Fairly complex songs with strong bass lines. But luckily most originals bands only have maybe 10-15 songs to learn. I was ready to gig after about 3 rehearsals but for various reasons (including writing a new tune, and one of the guitarists forgetting to turn up ) I think we had about 6.

I don't think anyone would dep for an originals band without rehearsals.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1503052504' post='3355326']
Lots of big name professional artists performing original material use deps on every gig, they are called musicians!
[/quote]

That's not what I meant, and you know it.

My definition of a Dep is a someone who replaces the usual musician for one maybe two gigs only.

[Dad3353]

When I first arrived in France, mid '70s, I was mainly playing drums in variety bands, but did get the occasional offer of bass-playing, usually with rather modest wedding bands, centred around a Voice with an Accordion.. The repertoire was, for me at the time, completely unknown, so, to me, count as 'originals', as I'd never heard them before, nor had any idea as to how they were constructed. On drums, it's not difficult (or so I found...); once I got into the trick of playing a soft shuffle on the hats, and the occasional light splash or accent, I fitted in quite nicely. Bass, however, was a continual concentration of listening, and listening hard, for what was going on. No guitar, often enough, to follow or watch, and an accordion, even if played well (not always the case...) is more difficult to 'read' from across the stage, so it was usually just a case of finding a suitable root and fifth, choosing a suitable rhythm or lilt and winging it, from 9 till 2 in the morning, sometimes longer. It was never a complete train wreck (well, not from my modest playing; sometimes the others would frig it up a bit...), and in every case the dancers were satisfied, called out for more, and congratulated the whole band afterwards. The most modern numbers would be a twist or two, maybe a light rock, Elvis-style, but mostly foxtrots, paso dobles, tangos and the like. No 'Rhythm Stick or the like, of course..! Depping..? Great stuff, but there is much variation in those waters; they can run very deep, or just enough to get one's toes wet. A fascinating school, in any case..

[lowdown]

Been depping and freelancing for about forty years and have mainly steered away from original bands.
Too much rehearsing going on for no payment and usually pretty poor money on the gig - Yep, I am a 'bread head'.
Not knocking the life of the original band, 'cause most are pretty good. But just not for me.

My depping has taken me from The Falkland Islands to Tokyo and just about everywhere in between.
Shows/Functions/Weddings/Turns/Big Bands/Jazz/Orchestras/Corporate Trade shows and even a farting act (a geezer, in a green all in one lycra bodysuit).
Mainly excellent times, some seat of my pants times, and of course, some memorable train wrecks from all along the way.
The big plus is, I have played with some terrific musicians.

Is depping a good idea ? Yes, of course it is....

Edited August 18, 2017 by lowdown

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1503055839' post='3355346']


That's not what I meant, and you know it.

My definition of a Dep is a someone who replaces the usual musician for one maybe two gigs only.
[/quote]

Lots of artists tour the UK doing anything from a solo slot on local radio to festival gigs with a full band, small mid week theatre gigs in the middle with maybe a trio behind them, the whole band may evolve during a few weeks, as I said before if the songs are good they'll work in any format.

Edited August 18, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[leschirons]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1502908713' post='3354353']
still not heard from anybody that's hired a dep and it's not worked out for whatever reason, have they always been a success then? because I've seen them, one dep guitarist I saw used a music stand (fair enough) but was really low in the mix, when you could hear him you knew why
[/quote]

And there's the other side of the coin to consider too. I depped for a couple of bands a while ago (last minute panic jobs) where they've been so bad I've thought "never again". It may not be your band, but it's still your face up on stage😂

[ezbass]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1503163943' post='3356184']


And there's the other side of the coin to consider too. I depped for a couple of bands a while ago (last minute panic jobs) where they've been so bad I've thought "never again". It may not be your band, but it's still your face up on stage😂
[/quote]Yep, been there, played those; soul destroying

[Dad3353]

I'll spare you the horror story behind '[i]Catherine et son ensemble[/i]' (recounted elsewhere here...); I agree that it is all too often the case that the inviting band turns out to be not as 'inviting' as all that..! That's part of the deal, though; when it's good, it is very, very good, but when it is bad it is rotten..!

[Baronialhall]

I don't mind depping for original bands or cover bands. It's great for the band as they don't need to cancel gigs and I'm sure the audience don't really know or mind. A couple of times I've had to rely on keeping a close eye on the rhythm guitarist's hand and I have to say, a good drummer will always guide the band through changes with little fills or pick-ups for the chorus/ middle eight etc..and unless there are several chord changes per bar you should be fine. It's usually great fun.