advice needed! 350w 4 ohm aguilar tonehammer into a 300w aquilar GS112 no tweeter

[DanH71]

Hi

need advice as per the title.

Rabbie from basschat has an amp for sale that he is willing to hold for me until i get paid, but im not sure if its the amp for me. I play in a trio playing jazz/funk/rock fusion with a guitarist who likes the limelight but who has thus far [we are only rehearsing at present] played through a single fender 12 inch. the drummer is busy but not overly loud. we will play small to medium gigs.

Ive heard that the tonehammer 350w actually if alguilar used the power rating of other manufacturers would be punching a considerable bit higher thatn the 350 rating [have seen estimates of 500 -650w]

the th350 is also 4 ohm and rabbies cab is 8 ohm. so not only would I be potentially loosing ooomph;) due to the impedance difference but what is more I may be in danger of blowing the thing up by pushing to myuch power to the cab...

is my thinking right?

so, to recap, ive two questions

1. will this setup be sufficient for such gigs [considering the impedance mismatch] and
2. am i likely to blow the cab to bits if i ramp up my master control?

cheers
Dan

[ambient]

The TH350 only puts out 175 watts with an 8 ohm cab, so you should be fine.

[DanH71]

That low.

Then I think it may be insufficient for my needs;(

The guitarist and drummer aren't old jazzers!

[Lozz196]

If you have the option try it, those TH350s are surprisingly powerful. If you`re after a very clean sound then it`s prob not the right set up, but if you`re happy with a bit of grit in the sound the it may well just be the right rig for you.

[Damonjames]

The size of the guitarist' cab is also irrelevant, it is being driven by a 30/50w all tube fender amp, you will be left massively wanting!!! My guitarist used to have a 50w fender de ville and that could melt your face off!!!

[ambient]

I used a similar rig a few years ago, the cab had a tweeter, in a very loud Free tribute band. So loud that I left them, but the rig handled it perfectly.

[DanH71]

Just noticed I said rabbit has an amp for sale ...

To clarify he doesn't.

I own a th350 head (4 ohm) and he is selling
A gs112 (8 ohm 300w)..

If it's only gonna draw 175w from the head then It's probably not enough power for me alas. Guess I will wait for a 4ohm version to come available or some barefaced gem..

[Damonjames]

A 4 ohm 112 might be ok, but you could get the th350, and the 8ohm 112 and see if it can keep up, if it doesn't get another 8ohm 112 and you can then run 2 x 112 at a total impedance of 4 ohms 😄

[DanH71]

Now I've called him 'rabbit'. Sorry rabbie, bloody predictive text.

@ambient so there you were never in any danger of blowing the cab up with the th350s output?

[DanH71]

@Damonjames solid idea but I don't drive so I want a 1 cab solution that is as light as can be if possible (I know barefaced;)

[Damonjames]

Trust me, 2 small cabs are easier than one big one!!!

A 112 in each hand or get yourself one of those little collapsible trollies 😄

[DanH71]

I know too well. I'm getting on a bit and lightweight and singular is what I need. Think I'm gonna wait for a barefaced compact. Although they too are 8 ohm but have a higher wattage and apparently the impedence mismatch with that gear is not such a big deal.

[NJE]

I have used a Tonehammer 350 for years now and it's a great bit of kit, I find it very clean with the right settings and works incredibly well with a 4ohm cab.

I have owned pairs of GS112 cabs and the DB equivalent and both were perfectly loud enough to compete with a 9 piece soul band with 3/4 piece brass section.

1 cab alone was fine for small gigs with PA support and rehearsal but not as backline in a venue.

Look out for a decent 4ohm cab so you can pull everything out of the head. After years of using two smaller cabs because I thought they would be easier to move about, I bought an Aguilar GS212 and it's not too heavy and sounds amazing and I find it much easier, I have castors on it and just take a sack truck everywhere so I never have to lift anything.

[DanH71]

@NJE

Good to hear your experience with the TH350 and a 4 ohm cab. Will be sure to look out for a GS212 or perhaps a barefaced two ten(14kg!!!):

http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/retro-two10.htm

Thanks for the Insight!

[Damonjames]

[quote name='DanH71' timestamp='1502998740' post='3354996']
I know too well. I'm getting on a bit and lightweight and singular is what I need. Think I'm gonna wait for a barefaced compact. Although they too are 8 ohm but have a higher wattage and apparently the impedence mismatch with that gear is not such a big deal.
[/quote]

Ok, you really need to do some homework before you drop some cash hear big fella. There is no "mismatch" going on. Your amp can deliver 350 watts at a minimum load of 4 ohms. You can run it with an 8 ohm load but the maximum power is halved to 175 watts. That is the "simple" mathematics of this situation, either scenario is a "match" to use your words, but the result will be different.

BUT!!!!! Watts aren't always watts... compare valve to solid state/cast iron to class D and the rated wattage will give very different output levels. Couple with that, that what you really need to understand is not the rated output of the cab, but more it's efficiency is what will give you the ultimate goal in your scenario which is VOLUME!!

I have a Gallien Krueger Fusion 550, (rated at 550 watts into 4 ohms) which I run through a Gallien Krueger neo 212 which is rated at 350watts at an impedance of 8 ohms. I can assure you there is no mismatch, it's bloody loud!! I haven't even had a chance to run it with my neo 115 at 4 ohms 😳

Ultimately, it's up to you, and only you will know if your setup will be loud enough for your band. I've always been of the philosophy that I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it, so if it were me, I'd go for two 8ohm cabs and run the full 350 watts, or go for a 4 ohm cab.

Good luck with your quest!! If you are like the rest of us, you will probably get GAS for something else in 6 months anyway 😂

[DanH71]

@damonjames

Appreciate the advice But like you say my mind will probably fluctuate a thousand times from one to another before I pull the trigger.

Do like the look of barefaced two 10 though (500w but can be pushed harder) lightweight and is 4 ohms so I could draw all of the juice from my head;)

[Damonjames]

[quote name='DanH71' timestamp='1503003241' post='3355045']
@damonjames

Appreciate the advice But like you say my mind will probably fluctuate a thousand times from one to another before I pull the trigger.

Do like the look of barefaced two 10 though (500w but can be pushed harder) lightweight and is 4 ohms so I could draw all of the juice from my head;)
[/quote]

Now you're talking 😉 Keep us posted on what you decide to do!

[naxos10]

I've just got a Barefaced Two10 for a similar situation. I run an Ashdown Retroglide as my main amp but I also needed something my backup amp, a Markbass Blackline 250, would be capable of diving to decent sound levels.

[xgsjx]

Don't do it! You'll cause the moon to go black in America & then the world will end!!!

Watts are not how loud the rig will go.
Volume is measured in decibels.
If you play your bass with the input gain set just below clip & the volume about 1/4 way, the amp is not gonna put 175w to the cab. Change bass & you'll likely get a change in volume.

What I'm saying is Ignore The Watts! They don't tell you what the decibels are.

I wouldn't recommend a 4 ohm cab either, unless you were going for a 2x12.
If you go for that 1x12 you mentioned, you can always add a 2nd for the bigger gigs.

Buying 2nd hand means if you don't like what you buy, you can sell it without loss.

Edited August 18, 2017 by xgsjx

[DanH71]

Thanks for the input guys, but getting a single 4ohm cab at present just makes sense.

I want to hop on and off trains and buses without and don't want to give myself a hernia (even with trolley) and the stress. Secondly I live in a small apartment and I have no space for 2 cabs.

I'm gonna be a 1 cab man (for now;)

[xgsjx]

[quote name='DanH71' timestamp='1503040692' post='3355191']
Thanks for the input guys, but getting a single 4ohm cab at present just makes sense.

I want to hop on and off trains and buses without and don't want to give myself a hernia (even with trolley) and the stress. Secondly I live in a small apartment and I have no space for 2 cabs.

I'm gonna be a 1 cab man (for now;)
[/quote]
If it's a 2x12, then you are kinda limited to 4Ω cabs.

If it's a 1x12 or a 1x or 2x10, then that's not sensible. A 4Ω cab will only give 3db more than it's 8Ω equivalent, which in the real world, you'll struggle to notice & the only thing you'll be doing is putting more current through your amp & shortening it's life for no good reason.

[DanH71]

@xgsjx

Here's the thing. People have said (and my understanding is limited) that running my 350w head at 4 ohms into a 8 ohm cab will half (I know this is no scientific ratio;) giving me 175w potential. Now I understand that watts are not equal to sound pressure but there seems a minimal reduction considering the decrease in power.

If it is only 3db difference then it's no big deal..but would it be only 3db?

[Muzz]

FWIW, having used a few of the usual suspects, I think the OP is on the money with a Compact: it's a single cab, it'll take what the Aggie can dish out, and play loud enough for the band situation described. A Two10 would do the job, too, or even a Super Compact, which is even smaller and lighter than a Compact.

I'd agree with the '2 cabs is more than twice what 1 cab is', but the OP's been clear he doesn't want that.

I also agree that looking at the watts doesn't give the whole picture. My Walkabout is 'only' 300 watts, but can hang more than comfortably (with a Super Twin) with two 412/JCM100 guitards and a shed-building drummer in a 'proper loud' Rawk band...

[DanH71]

Thanks Muzz.

Thought I knew what I wanted but not so sure now!

Compacts/super compacts and two 10s are quite rare it seems being barefaced gems and this was my first port of call.

Am interested in the Aguilar gs112 and the potential to add a cab if needed at a later date, but just not sure 175w (-3db) is gonna cut it for me in a band situation..

Ahhh decisions decisions..

[xgsjx]

[quote name='DanH71' timestamp='1503041884' post='3355203']
@xgsjx

Here's the thing. People have said (and my understanding is limited) that running my 350w head at 4 ohms into a 8 ohm cab will half (I know this is no scientific ratio;) giving me 175w potential. Now I understand that watts are not equal to sound pressure but there seems a minimal reduction considering the decrease in power.

If it is only 3db difference then it's no big deal..but would it be only 3db?
[/quote]
Yes, it would only be 3db.
8Ω load usually pulls a max of @ 2/3 of the amp's total watts, so that would probably be about 200-220w.
You're only gonna hit the max watts with the occasional spike from your playing at volume or when the amp is near clipping & you're playing as loud as you can without things sounding nasty.

Muzz's suggestion of a Barefaced cab is good advice. Small, light and loud.
The Two10 is available in 4Ω or 12Ω, the Compact & Super Compact are both 8Ω.

Talking of Barefaced, here's an article on Alex's page tht's worth a read...
http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/mythbusters1.htm