Is TAB really that evil?

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504653128' post='3366413']
...To those who say that tab shows you where to put your fingers.....so does standard notation!...
[/quote]

I don't agree.

[SpondonBassed]

Why are we even talking about correctness?

Both systems are dependent on good source material. Are you saying that there are [i]no[/i] poorly written scores? Whatever system you use, if you don't hear what you expect for a piece you are working up, you look at alternatives, modify, improvise, beg advice etc. whatever system you've been reading.

Before any intellectual wannabes get on my back again this does not apply to orchestral arrangements as a general rule.

GIGO

[paul_c2]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504686146' post='3366499']
I don't agree.
[/quote]

I thought I'd adequately explained this - standard notation shows the pitch, from which you can deduce the fret and string (from knowing your instrument). It won't tell you exactly which string/fret it is (there may be a choice, depending on the pitch, ie notes below G#/Ab on a 4 string bass, there's a choice of 1....) but then it is often the case that tab doesn't have the best position, simply [i]a [/i]position that the tab-writer thinks is the best one.

[paul_c2]

I'd say if we did a survey of the accuracy of a representitive sample of (say) 100 scores, the tab would be about 20/100 and standard notation would be about 95/100. Obviously it depends somewhat on the genre of music, some genres are predominantly written in one or the other method etc etc.

[ambient]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504686670' post='3366503']
Both systems are dependent on good source material. Are you saying that there are [i]no[/i] poorly written scores? Whatever system you use, if you don't hear what you expect for a piece you are working up, you look at alternatives, modify, improvise, beg advice etc. whatever system you've been reading.
[/quote]

Personally, like I've said before, I couldn't care less what someone uses. If someone wants to use TAB then cool, if someone wants to use an app where a hand rises by magic from the device, extends a forefinger and points at each note on the fretboard in turn, then again that's cool.

In 20 years of playing I've only ever come across one badly written notated chart. That was actually on a gig aboard a cruise ship, sight-reading a song I'd never played before. I knew enough though to ignore what was written. Someone had used a marker pen to write the 'natural' sign next to a the Bs on the chart, it was in F.

The thing with standard notation and TAB, you don't need to be 'working up' the line from notation, you can just play it. That's what notation is for. It enables me sitting in my room in Birmingham, to send a chart to anyone else, anywhere in the world, and regardless of what instrument they play, they can look at it, and understand it.

I'm recording stuff at the moment with a guitarist. I recorded a piece last night on my bass. it took me 10 minutes afterwards to write out what I'd played using Sibelius, and i sent it to him. The piece was played on my 7 string bass, played up past the 12th fret. Using TAB for that wouldn't make any sense to him. What I did was written in treble clef, he'll look at it and understand straight off what the underlying harmony is, and be able to record his part.

Notation is a universal way of communication, TAB isn't, it's instrument specific, but as a means to learning something it's fine, if that's the course that your personal playing has followed.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504688869' post='3366527']
I thought I'd adequately explained this - standard notation shows the pitch, from which you can deduce the fret and string (from knowing your instrument). It won't tell you exactly which string/fret it is (there may be a choice, depending on the pitch, ie notes below G#/Ab on a 4 string bass, there's a choice of 1....) but then it is often the case that tab doesn't have the best position, simply [i]a [/i]position that the tab-writer thinks is the best one.
[/quote]

Then tab just shows you where to put your fingers. Score does not. You can't convince me otherwise. Forget the content for a minute why don't you.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504692136' post='3366566']
...Notation is a universal way of communication, TAB isn't, it's instrument specific, but as a means to learning something it's fine, if that's the course that your personal playing has followed.
[/quote]

Again, no. It is a form of communication into which you have to be educated. Hardly universal unless you consider the universe to be populated solely by standard notation readers. Not everyone is literate or educated.

We are never going to agree on it being universally acceptable.

Edited September 6, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[Dad3353]

When I'm typing out these posts here, I find it best to use a language that the target audience (you, dear reader...) will (mostly...) understand. In fact, I'm 'thinking' in French, and translating it into your idiom. It's handy, when wanting something to be communicated, to use these techniques.
Similarly, with music, I use the form that will best be correctly interpreted by the intended receiver. If it's a drum score for myself, I'll use standard drum notation, in the knowledge that not all pianists would be able to read or play it; it's not directed at their instrument. If I want to write a piece for Vincent, our second guitar, standard notation would be useless. A TAB, however, would take him little time to work out and play. I don't have either the skills nor opportunity, but if I was writing pedagogic pieces for a guitar magazine, I'd probably write stuff in both, so that an extended readership could benefit. That's the beauty of being polyglot; more doors are open. Being expert in only one or another language is fine, but limits one to only that lone system. More is more, not less. All is good.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Dad3353

[xgsjx]

Tablature can be better for understanding certain passages, such as harmonics played on certain frets.
Try reading the score for "High speed on ice" by Talas (or probably any Talas score). Knowing how to play those harmonics is gonna take a lot of trial & error. Tab shows the string & where the hand should be. With harmonics, it can be written as 3 1/4, 3 3/4 etc.

You get good TAB, just as you get good score. Anyone who only stays with either tab or score is holding themselves back & not making the most of their musical ability.

[ambient]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504695894' post='3366603']
Again, no. It is a form of communication into which you have to be educated. Hardly universal unless you consider the universe to be populated solely by standard notation readers. Not everyone is literate or educated.

We are never going to agree on it being universally acceptable.
[/quote]

I used the term universal to mean it can be understood by violinists, cellists, pianists, guitarists, flautists.....the list goes on and on, and they could be anywhere in the world. Yes, they would have to be musically literate, I wasn't saying otherwise. Most drummers I know, at least the ones I was at uni with would understand it. Everyone be they vocalists, drummers, bassists studied piano as a second instrument, and had to write arrangements for other instruments. My guitarist friend understood it perfectly. I wrote a piece ages ago for oboe and 6 string bass, I wouldn't know how to start writing TAB for oboe .

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504696982' post='3366628']
...I wrote a piece ages ago for oboe and 6 string bass, I wouldn't know how to start writing TAB for oboe .
[/quote]

I would have thought it was a challenge worthy of an accomplished musician like your good self. Heeheehee.

Don't mind me, I'm not a musician, I'm not even a bassist. My whole life is a hack.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504696540' post='3366617']
...That's the beauty of being polyglot; more doors are open. Being expert in only one or another language is fine, but limits one to only that lone system. More is more, not less. All is good.
[/quote]

I went out with a girl called Polly Glot once. She only spoke one language though - cash.

[Coilte]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504698465' post='3366644']
She only spoke one language though - cash.
[/quote]

I assume she picked up the tab when you went out for a meal. !!

[size=2]Grabs his coat and runs...!!![/size]

Edited September 6, 2017 by Coilte

[paul_c2]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504695556' post='3366599']
Score does not.
[/quote]

Yes it does. Simple example:



There's one way to do it on the (4 string) bass.....its as clear as a bell.

[lowdown]

If you want to sit around as a family and play those well known Funeral hits, TAB won't really help.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/4v9zqvun7/][/url]

[paul_c2]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1504696733' post='3366622']
Tablature can be better for understanding certain passages, such as harmonics played on certain frets.
Try reading the score for "High speed on ice" by Talas (or probably any Talas score). Knowing how to play those harmonics is gonna take a lot of trial & error. Tab shows the string & where the hand should be. With harmonics, it can be written as 3 1/4, 3 3/4 etc.

You get good TAB, just as you get good score. Anyone who only stays with either tab or score is holding themselves back & not making the most of their musical ability.
[/quote]

There is a convention for notating harmonics in standard notation - no trial and error needed, can be read & played first time.

[Nicko]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504696540' post='3366617']
In fact, I'm 'thinking' in French, and translating it into your idiom.
[/quote]

So vous pensez en francais?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504699734' post='3366663']
There is a convention for notating harmonics in standard notation - no trial and error needed, can be read & played first time.
[/quote]
Yes, noting it as a diamond. But it's then accompanied by tab being written next to it. Without the number, then trial and error is needed.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504698823' post='3366649']
I assume she picked up the tab when you went out for a meal. !!

[size=2]Grabs his coat and runs...!!![/size]
[/quote]

Are you kidding me? As you well know you have to earn your place in the queue for her dowry when courting a colleen. She [i]scored[/i] a free lunch every time.

[Coilte]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504699481' post='3366657']
Yes it does. Simple example:



There's one way to do it on the (4 string) bass.....its as clear as a bell.
[/quote]

I agree. However it is necessary to know your fretboard first. In my experience a lot.. (granted..not all..).. of tab users don't know where the notes are on the fretboard. With tab, there is no need to know as you simply put your finger on for example, fret four of the first string etc. In this instance the note name makes no difference.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504699481' post='3366657']
Yes it does. Simple example:



There's one way to do it on the (4 string) bass.....its as clear as a bell.
[/quote]

So... where do I put my finger again? I have a suggestion but it is not polite.

[Coilte]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504701110' post='3366679']
Are you kidding me? As you well know you have to earn your place in the queue for her dowry when courting a colleen. She [i]scored[/i] a free lunch every time.
[/quote]

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1504699541' post='3366660']
If you want to sit around as a family and play those well known Funeral hits, TAB won't really help.

[url="https://postimg.org/image/4v9zqvun7/"][/url]
[/quote]

Hahahahaha! Talking of one fingered grief... this topic is the place for it.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504696982' post='3366628']
I used the term universal to mean it can be understood by violinists, cellists, pianists, guitarists, flautists.....the list goes on and on, and they could be anywhere in the world.
[/quote]

Indeed, as long as they were instruments based on a western scale.

[Coilte]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504701175' post='3366682']
So... where do I put my finger again? I have a suggestion but it is not polite.
[/quote]

So..it's safe to assume that you don't know the location of the notes on the fretboard ?