Is TAB really that evil?

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701162' post='3366681']
I agree. However it is necessary to know your fretboard first. In my experience a lot.. (granted..not all..).. of tab users don't know where the notes are on the fretboard. With tab, there is no need to know as you simply put your finger on for example, fret four of the first string etc. In this instance the note name makes no difference.
[/quote]

Tadda! Thanks.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701394' post='3366689']
So..it's safe to assume that you don't know the location of the notes on the fretboard ?
[/quote]

I know my open strings. I have little use for note names other than that, if that's what you mean.

[Coilte]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504701400' post='3366690']
Tadda! Thanks.
[/quote]

At the same time...[i]if you know your fretboard...[/i] it can safely be said that notation tells you where to put your fingers.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504699481' post='3366657']
Yes it does. Simple example:



There's one way to do it on the (4 string) bass.....its as clear as a bell.
[/quote]

But that only works if that part of the score is written expressly for the bass guitar, otherwise there are three different ways to do it.

[ambient]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504701622' post='3366695']


I know my open strings. I have little use for note names other than that, if that's what you mean.
[/quote]

So someone says to you to play 8th notes on a B, what do you do?

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701745' post='3366696']
At the same time...[i]if you know your fretboard...[/i] it can safely be said that notation tells you where to put your fingers.
[/quote]

Trouble is it relies on your association of two abstract things through learning those associations. Tab shows you.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702017' post='3366703']
So someone says to you to play 8th notes on a B, what do you do?
[/quote]

I have a low B and it isn't hard to work out how many octaves and alternatives there are. What do you do?

[lowdown]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504701261' post='3366685']
Hahahahaha! Talking of one fingered grief... this topic is the place for it.
[/quote]

Not 'arf, Vicar....

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504701877' post='3366699']
But that only works if that part of the score is written expressly for the bass guitar, otherwise there are three different ways to do it.
[/quote]

I may be wrong but isn't the bass part written always incorrectly to start with just to keep it on the stave?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1504700189' post='3366667']
So vous pensez en francais?
[/quote]

Bien sûr, comme tout le monde. Pas toi..?

[ambient]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504702597' post='3366714']
I have a low B and it isn't hard to work out how many octaves and alternatives there are. What do you do?
[/quote]

I just know what all the notes are. It's never occurred to me that you can play an instrument without knowing what note you're playing.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702968' post='3366719']
I just know what all the notes are. It's never occurred to me that you can play an instrument without knowing what note you're playing.
[/quote]

Of course. You aren't in charge however. I've made my choice.

[ambient]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504703130' post='3366721']


Of course. You aren't in charge however. I've made my choice.
[/quote]

I've not said otherwise. I've said all along that people can play and learn whatever way they want,. You can play blindfold using your toes for all I care 😊.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504702777' post='3366716']
I may be wrong but isn't the bass part written always incorrectly to start with just to keep it on the stave?
[/quote]

Depends on the instrument. If it's a transposing instrument like the bass guitar then you play the notes a octave lower than written. If it isn't (like tuba and trombone IIRC) then you play the notes as they are written.

Edited September 6, 2017 by BigRedX

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504703756' post='3366733']
Depends on the instrument. If it's a transposing instrument like the bass guitar then you play the notes a octave lower than written. If it isn't (like tuba and trombone IIRC) then you play the notes as they are written.
[/quote]

That's why I don't play the suzaphone. They don't write much tab for it either.

[paul_c2]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504702472' post='3366713']
Trouble is it relies on your association of two abstract things through learning those associations. Tab shows you.
[/quote]

Most instruments rely on the person playing that instrument to learn 'abstract' (its not an abstract thing..) things about how to play it, without needing to be told/reminded of the precise mechanism by which the note is sounded correctly. Its part of learning and playing. Tab lets you bypass this, whether its a good or bad thing I don't really have a view on.



[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504701877' post='3366699']
But that only works if that part of the score is written expressly for the bass guitar, otherwise there are three different ways to do it.
[/quote]

Yep - but does it really matter which of those three ways are chosen, since they all sound the same pitch/note? Plenty of other instruments have alternate fingerings for notes, eg saxophone, clarinet, flute, bassoon, trumpet, french horn, etc etc. The basic notation shows the duration and pitch and doesn't pretend to show anything else - there's other markings for dynamics, timbre, etc etc

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504704605' post='3366744']
...but does it really matter which of those three ways are chosen, since they all sound the same pitch/note?...
[/quote]

Sometimes I'd choose a note on the B string up the neck for its thicker sound as well as to minimise my travelling up and down the fretboard. The same note on the E string is slightly different. Maybe I am the only one to notice as I'm playing but even with the exact same note there are tonal differences across strings that can lend to the feel of what I'm playing.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504704605' post='3366744']
Yep - but does it really matter which of those three ways are chosen, since they all sound the same pitch/note?
[/quote]

Yes IMO it does very much matter, as even on very expensive basses they don't by any means have the same tone. For me it would depend as much on what the other instruments were playing at the same time as to which position I chose unless the best sounding position also made the part too difficult to play in which case I'd pick a compromise of tone and playability.

[leftybassman392]

Aimed at nobody in particular, but perhaps a musical interlude might be in order:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEhS9Y9HYjU"][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEhS9Y9HYjU[/media][/url]

[paul_c2]

If it matters it can be accommodated in standard notation by a small note saying which string to play a particular note on. I know it will sound different, the question is, 1) does it sound different enough to require every single note to also nominate the string it must be played on, 2) could/would a composer/arranger trust that the person playing the instrument can adequately interpret is such that the "tone" will be correct, thus not requiring the detail and 3) how do you know the tab has the notes sounded on the correct strings and doesn't contain an error? Based on evidence I'd say it were 1 no, 2 yes, 3 you don't.

[Nicko]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702968' post='3366719']
I just know what all the notes are. It's never occurred to me that you can play an instrument without knowing what note you're playing.
[/quote]

Why would knowing the note names make the slightest difference? I know the fretboard well enough to find a note if someone asks for it, but if I'm playing a phrase the intervals are important, not the notes. If someone asks me to play an E# Major scale I can do it. In order to tell you the names of the scale tones I'd have to work backwards from where I put my fingers. My brain works better on patterns than on names. BTW I picked E# deliberately before you pedants start mocking me.

Seems like you might have locked yourself in to a way of thinking purely because you read standard notation.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504705915' post='3366758']
If it matters [size=5][b]it can be accommodated in standard notation by a small note saying which string to play a particular note on.[/b][/size] I know it will sound different, the question is, 1) does it sound different enough to require every single note to also nominate the string it must be played on, 2) could/would a composer/arranger trust that the person playing the instrument can adequately interpret is such that the "tone" will be correct, thus not requiring the detail and 3) how do you know the tab has the notes sounded on the correct strings and doesn't contain an error? Based on evidence I'd say it were 1 no, 2 yes, 3 you don't.
[/quote]

Tab just shows you.

[Dad3353]

If there was to be an 'evil' side to TAB, I'd suggest that it's its very existence, surely designed by the Beelzebub himself as a sure-fire way of causing strife between musicians..! Those that use it: carry on. Those that don't: carry on. It's become akin to the Jonathan Swift fictitious debate on which end of a boiled egg should be opened..! Tolerance, anyone..?

[ambient]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1504706014' post='3366759']


Why would knowing the note names make the slightest difference? I know the fretboard well enough to find a note if someone asks for it, but if I'm playing a phrase the intervals are important, not the notes. If someone asks me to play an E# Major scale I can do it. In order to tell you the names of the scale tones I'd have to work backwards from where I put my fingers. My brain works better on patterns than on names. BTW I picked E# deliberately before you pedants start mocking me.

Seems like you might have locked yourself in to a way of thinking purely because you read standard notation.
[/quote]

I know the note and it's relationship to the other notes and within the piece I'm playing. I'm not thinking patterns. I play a lot of chordal stuff, whether played as a straight chord or more horizontally, a good knowledge is prerequisite I think.

98% of what I do doesn't require sight-reading, I'm improvising solo, which again I think does require a thorough knowledge.

I'm certainly not locked into a way of thinking, my knowledge frees my thinking.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504707430' post='3366777']
If there was to be an 'evil' side to TAB, I'd suggest that it's its very existence, surely designed by the Beelzebub himself as a sure-fire way of causing strife between musicians..! Those that use it: carry on. Those that don't: carry on. It's become akin to the Jonathan Swift fictitious debate on which end of a boiled egg should be opened..! Tolerance, anyone..?
[/quote]

I prefer a pint if you're buying Dad.