Opinions/advice on our bands confederate flags please

[ambient]

I'm not going to ask what you do for lighting.

[skankdelvar]

My 2p. Fold them up and put them in storage. Unlikely though it may be, someone may think you are genuinely associating yourselves with certain sections of the US population who espouse unpleasant and / or unfashionable views. Which you clearly are not.

If you want to ensure a complete lack of controversy display the Canadian flag. Everyone loves the Canadians.

[fftc]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1503348151' post='3357539']
unfashionable views.
[/quote]

Seriously?

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='2elliot' timestamp='1503340659' post='3357429']
Bin the flags. Get two Bald Eagles instead.
[/quote]

Real ones? I'd go to see that. They'd probably nick the post-gig kebabs though.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1503348512' post='3357542']
Seriously?
[/quote]

? ? ? Surely you're not suggesting that they're [i]fashionable[/i]..?

[fftc]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1503349069' post='3357548']
? ? ? Surely you're not suggesting that they're [i]fashionable[/i]..?
[/quote]

No, I'd go for abhorrent!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1503349146' post='3357550']
No, I'd go for abhorrent!
[/quote]

OK, mere semantics. Oof; you had me worried for a moment..!

[redbandit599]

Ditch them and make up your own flag.
Use the red white and blue thing, maybe drop in roses instead of stars on the Stars and Stripes?

Sorry if the roses thing Yorkshire/ Lancashire isn't your patch, but you get my drift.

Or you could go for Mexican flags and a big photo of Trump.... 😉

[Les]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1503342977' post='3357463']
If I walked into a room and saw that, I'd do an "about face" and leave immediately. That flag tells me one thing;

"You're Not Welcome Here"

Blue
[/quote]

I can't tell you how much that would upset me and the rest of the band Blue if that were to happen, hence my posting the question when alarm bells started ringing in my head.

Saddest thing in that situation is the fact that we'd never never know and never get the chance to square it with someone who took one look at us and just left thinking us offensive and/or assholes. It's become obvious that it's best avoided in the first place.

There's a lot of water between us mate and it doesn't have the same impact over here but you and I seem to be in the English/American version of the same type of band so your opinion on the issue is appreciated, as in fairness is everyone else's who's commented.

As I said before the flags are dropped.

Les

[Buzzy]

I would say its probably time to drop the Confederate flag, times and attitudes change. Back in my punk days 77/78 it was common to see punks wearing the Nazi swastika. People wore it to cause shock and outrage but I doubt any band would wear it today.

[TimR]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503342889' post='3357461']


It was me that said that. This is why your satire fails.

Can and should are different. As stated, it needs plod to be made aware.
[/quote]

Maybe you can explain then, why aren't there people being locked up at the many American car shows that are regularly held. The cars are driven there with their flags and everything, they must be going on the public roads and passing police cars.

I don't get it.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1503348512' post='3357542']
Seriously?
[/quote]

Yes. The unpleasant (Nazi) view that another individual is inferior to oneself for reasons of inherency and the [i]unfashionable[/i] view to be found among old rockers, etc that to display the Battle Flag of the CSA is an indicator of 'rebelliousness'.

There may be an overlap between the two positions hence the 'and /or'.

[TimR]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503343281' post='3357464']


Why are you obsessed with The Sun?

It sells abou 1.5 million copies per day. The adult population of the UK is about 63 million. It's not a useful comparator.

And you may recall that when the Channel Tunnel opened the Times, telegraph, independent, even the daily mail ran stories about the amazing engineering feat and the layout of the tunnel.

The Sun (presumably for their readership) limited their coverage to explaining which 2 countries it was between and how easy it would be to get cheap booze.
[/quote]

Well, here's the Telegraph take on it then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11692452/Confederate-flag-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-controversial.html

[Damonjames]

It represents southern American pride to WHITE southern Americans, but I wonder if the southern African American community feel the same?

I feel for Tex on this one, as it is part of the "cowboy" imagery, but it may be time to rethink, perhaps the Stars and Stripes would do?

I know you guys well enough to know you are not white supremacists, but a passer by may jump to that conclusion! Hope it hasn't caused too much grief!

[Bolo]

"North and South" featuring Patrick Swayze, "Roots", everyone in "Dukes of Hazard" is white, even Star Trek did episodes on it, Django by Tarantino. All examples where you might have picked up a certain negative vibe.
The confederate battle flag is a symbol for 'rebels' to rally to like the swastika for nazis, the Daesh flags for Isis, etc.

[scalpy]

Do you have a flag?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UTduy7Qkvk8

[josie]

Picking up on "southern American pride". Look at The Cadillac Three - now flying high, rightly, with "proud to be southern" songs. They use the Tennessee state three-star emblem as their logo. I know (I've known them for years) they would never, even 15 years ago as Nashville teenagers, have used the Confederate flag. And they would be horrified to see anyone else doing so not understanding what it really means on its home ground.

[Les]

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1503353428' post='3357603']
It represents southern American pride to WHITE southern Americans, but I wonder if the southern African American community feel the same?

I feel for Tex on this one, as it is part of the "cowboy" imagery, but it may be time to rethink, perhaps the Stars and Stripes would do?

I know you guys well enough to know you are not white supremacists, but a passer by may jump to that conclusion! Hope it hasn't caused too much grief!
[/quote]

Cheers Damo, you know us and you get what the act is about. In all honesty I don't think it's caused any grief so far apart from on here and I really hope I'm right on that.

[blue]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1503350366' post='3357574']


I can't tell you how much that would upset me and the rest of the band Blue if that were to happen, hence my posting the question when alarm bells started ringing in my head.

Saddest thing in that situation is the fact that we'd never never know and never get the chance to square it with someone who took one look at us and just left thinking us offensive and/or assholes. It's become obvious that it's best avoided in the first place.

There's a lot of water between us mate and it doesn't have the same impact over here but you and I seem to be in the English/American version of the same type of band so your opinion on the issue is appreciated, as in fairness is everyone else's who's commented.

As I said before the flags are dropped.

Les
[/quote]

Cool,

Probably a good move Les.

The climate is weird for me here in the most conservative part if the Midwest, me being a north eastern progressive.

Because we're are so divided over here, I have seen friends, families and bands break up. It's sad.

Me, music, playing it, listening to it, watching it and being around other musicians is the only thing that brings happiness into my life.

I'm not going to get caught up in how insane it is over here and let it take the one thing that makes me happy out of my life.

Blue

Edited August 21, 2017 by blue

[bazzbass]

how would an African-American feel if he was at your show and was confronted by that symbol of slavery (in his eyes).?

It's not about what I think or you think of it, it is what those offended by it think.

you may tell me a homophobic joke, I'm not offended by it, you're not offended by it, but someone overhears it in passing and is offended by it.Therefore it IS offensive.

[Damonjames]

it is really interesting Les, how your perception can change. I must have seen hundreds of pics of you guys on facebook, and also seen you live - the flags were probably there! I have just grown up with them being a symbol of rebellion (Sorry Blue, ill plead being an ignorant Aussie!!).
I have to be honest, when I saw that picture with the two flags hanging, it did have a negative impact - the only thing missing is a guy in a klan hood!!!

Glad you have decided to drop the flag - the act is strong enough to survive. Good luck with it.

[fftc]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1503352725' post='3357596']
Yes. The unpleasant (Nazi) view that another individual is inferior to oneself for reasons of inherency and the [i]unfashionable[/i] view to be found among old rockers, etc that to display the Battle Flag of the CSA is an indicator of 'rebelliousness'.

There may be an overlap between the two positions hence the 'and /or'.
[/quote]

Fair enough. Thanks for explaining. I hadn't read it that way initially!

[TimR]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1503377605' post='3357636']
how would an African-American feel if he was at your show and was confronted by that symbol of slavery (in his eyes).?

It's not about what I think or you think of it, it is what those offended by it think.

you may tell me a homophobic joke, I'm not offended by it, you're not offended by it, but someone overhears it in passing and is offended by it.Therefore it IS offensive.
[/quote]

Apparently nobody needs to actually take offence. It only has to be likely that someone would take offence if they heard it.

[Lozz196]

I don`t know the history of the confederate flag, but if it was around before the KKK etc decided to wave it, then keep using it. A bit like the Union Flag, or Cross of St George, right-wingers wave it, but then why wouldn`t they wave the flag of the country they claim to support? Anyone else wishing to use those flags can get deemed to be racist when their intentions may be patriotism, which is different.

[Steve Browning]

I would presume the KKK have used it all along. I believe the KKK was founded as a 'British Legion' for confederate soldiers after the US civil war.

The confederate flag has a star for each of the States that were in the confederacy, in the same way the stars and stripes has one for each State nowadays. I presume it was concocted when the States broke away (albeit temporarily).

We do civil wars so much better here. Have a few battles, try a new form of government and then decide no-one can be ar$ed to continue.