Drax Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Les you don't have music stands as well do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueno Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='Drax' timestamp='1503336804' post='3357373'] Les you don't have music stands as well do you? [/quote] Post of the week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 bravo!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 As others have said tne context of the flag has changed. It probably isn't seen as a racist symbol over here yet, but the recent media focus on far right groups in the US probably means that it inevitably will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503330615' post='3357318'] Told about it? Like a lesson? ... Why are you surprised that others might know about a subject that you are not interested in? ... [/quote] Because American history and the civil war seem to me to be specialist subjects and not general knowledge. In fact I'm convinced that up to 2015 most British people would say Dukes of Hazzard when asked about General Lee and if shown the flag would just say Americana. In fact the OP only found out about it by being 'told' via Facebook the other day and another poster only found out about it when his brother 'told' him he should be careful after buying one while he was in the states. i.e. up to very recently a lot of us had absolutely no knowledge of these things. It just wasn't general knowledge. Edited August 21, 2017 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1503336362' post='3357370'] ... but also that the George Cross flag was not much in use as a national symbol before 1350 or thereabouts. [/quote] Ha, don't spoil my moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fftc Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1503338319' post='3357395'] As others have said tne context of the flag has changed. It probably isn't seen as a racist symbol over here yet, but the recent media focus on far right groups in the US probably means that it inevitably will be. [/quote] The context of the flag hasn't changed. It is seen as a racist symbol over here now. The only thing that has changed is the media coverage and the racist nature of it's symbolism in wider public consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) [quote name='fftc' timestamp='1503339493' post='3357405'] The context of the flag hasn't changed. It is seen as a racist symbol over here now. The only thing that has changed is the media coverage and the racist nature of it's symbolism in wider public consciousness. [/quote] Context is probably the wrong word but have people really been flying it over here and decorating their American cars with it as a display of White Supremacy? Did the OP use it in that context? If so why haven't the police been arresting them? Edited August 21, 2017 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503339248' post='3357401'] Because American history and the civil war seem to me to be specialist subjects and not general knowledge. In fact I'm convinced that up to 2015 most British people would say Dukes of Hazzard when asked about General Lee and if shown the flag would just say Americana. In fact the OP only found out about it by being 'told' via Facebook the other day and another poster only found out about it when his brother 'told' him he should be careful after buying one while he was in the states. i.e. up to very recently a lot of us had absolutely no knowledge of these things. It just wasn't general knowledge. [/quote] Please don't assume your lack of knowledge about a particular subject in any way mirrors the rest of the population. Of course it won't be as common knowledge as purely "British" events, but that doesn't mean that knowledge is rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503339853' post='3357410'] Context is probably the wrong word but have people really been flying it over here and decorating their American cars with it as a display of White Supremacy? Did the OP use it in that context? If so why haven't the police been arresting them? [/quote] Why would it have been bought to the attention of the police? [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why was it bought to the police's attention? [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Who would have complained?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And Why?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]etc etc...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Nice little u-turn there.[/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503339853' post='3357410'] Context is probably the wrong word but have people really been flying it over here and decorating their American cars with it as a display of White Supremacy? Did the OP use it in that context? If so why haven't the police been arresting them? [/quote] Maybe the OP didn't realise that the audience were racist and wouldn't report it. Or were similarly afflicted by a lack of knowledge, but now they are not. Still - if it makes you feel any better - if I saw confederate flags being hung with nooses then I'd give serious thought to a complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='Drax' timestamp='1503336804' post='3357373'] Les you don't have music stands as well do you? [/quote] I don't actually but the singer has one clamped to his mic stand cos' he got hit in the head by a digger bucket and can't remember stuff now. He is blissfully unaware that you all hate him for this. Here's an innocent picture of it at one of the fascist fundraisers you all think we do on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503340090' post='3357416'] Why would it have been bought to the attention of the police? [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why was it bought to the police's attention? [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Who would have complained?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And Why?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]etc etc...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Nice little u-turn there.[/font][/color] [/quote] Well. You can't have it both ways. It's either racist and illegal or it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2elliot Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Bin the flags. Get two Bald Eagles instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503340631' post='3357428'] Well. You can't have it both ways. It's either racist and illegal or it's not. [/quote] I'm not having it both ways. Illegal things are still illegal even if the Police don't know the event is happening. Crimes are committed every second without plod knowing. Something being illegal and someone being convicted for it are not the same thing. You do realise that if a tree falls in a wood and there is no one to hear it - there is still a sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503339952' post='3357413'] Please don't assume your lack of knowledge about a particular subject in any way mirrors the rest of the population. Of course it won't be as common knowledge as purely "British" events, but that doesn't mean that knowledge is rare. [/quote] I'll try not to, but the fact that the Sun feels it necessary to educate people on it, would kind of indicate it's not common knowledge. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3621818/confederate-flag-racist-banned/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1503340888' post='3357431'] I'm not having it both ways. Illegal things are still illegal even if the Police don't know the event is happening. Crimes are committed every second without plod knowing. Something being illegal and someone being convicted for it are not the same thing. You do realise that if a tree falls in a wood and there is no one to hear it - there is still a sound? [/quote] I think you have missed my attempt at satire there earlier. Someone ascertained that you can be arrested for putting a golly in your window... I'm just saying that if you can be arrested for a Golly, you should also be arrested for flying the flag. But never mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 However people stand on it, 5 pages of conversation plugging your band when the post is only a day old is good going! I'm of an age where I loved the General Lee and watching those Dukes of Hazzard on TV as a kid but the world has changed. I don't think it has any negative image in the North of England but it has become a contentious symbol in the US. So were you to keep it, just don't go to the US on tour! Personally having played on the Americana circuit for about 15yrs I always avoided it because it just seemed a bit too obvious but then plenty of bands of all genres rely on popular images that work for the genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1503314783' post='3357056'] Shame tho, it's such a cool flag and I'm uneasy about destroying elements of history to suit our agenda now. Isn't that what the Nazi's did? [/quote] That flag is not cool to me. You can read about history. You wouldn't catch me within 20 feet of that merch booth. Blue Edited August 21, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503341589' post='3357446'] I think you have missed my attempt at satire there earlier. Someone ascertained that you can be arrested for putting a golly in your window... I'm just saying that if you can be arrested for a Golly, you should also be arrested for flying the flag. But never mind... [/quote] It was me that said that. This is why your satire fails. Can and should are different. As stated, it needs plod to be made aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='Les' timestamp='1503340318' post='3357422'] I don't actually but the singer has one clamped to his mic stand cos' he got hit in the head by a digger bucket and can't remember stuff now. He is blissfully unaware that you all hate him for this. Here's an innocent picture of it at one of the fascist fundraisers you all think we do on a regular basis. [/quote] If I walked into a room and saw that, I'd do an "about face" and leave immediately. That flag tells me one thing; "You're Not Welcome Here" Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503341296' post='3357441'] I'll try not to, but the fact that the Sun feels it necessary to educate people on it, would kind of indicate it's not common knowledge. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3621818/confederate-flag-racist-banned/ [/quote] Why are you obsessed with The Sun? It sells abou 1.5 million copies per day. The adult population of the UK is about 63 million. It's not a useful comparator. And you may recall that when the Channel Tunnel opened the Times, telegraph, independent, even the daily mail ran stories about the amazing engineering feat and the layout of the tunnel. The Sun (presumably for their readership) limited their coverage to explaining which 2 countries it was between and how easy it would be to get cheap booze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I wouldn't be seen near one of these flags. This is a WAR flag, and It's used by aggressive bigots who have no qualms about killing an estimated 290 Chargers for the production of the show! I'd do Daisy though. [color=#ffffff].[/color] [color=#ffffff].[/color] [color=#ffffff].[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fftc Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1503342543' post='3357458'] That flag is not cool to me. You can read about history. You wouldn't catch me within 20 feet of that merch booth. Blue [/quote] Nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 It's the nooses, you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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