Apple's Business Model

[edstraker123]

I had an email from the lovely folks at Apple yesterday telling me that my version of Logic won't work in the next IOS update but not to worry as I can just buy it again in the Apple store.This business model sucks - I completely understand that legacy versions of software shouldn't hold back progress and won't be supported indefinitely, however they could at least offer an upgrade discount like most other music software providers. Logic was the only reason for me to own a mac - I've moved to a Samsung phone and tablet and will now move my music software to PC. I really don't get a business model based on arrogance which encourages customers to leave under a cloud presumably never to return.

[Raslee]

Out of interest which version of Logic ?

[YouMa]

Jailbreak your ios or wait till a new jailbreak comes out from pangu.Then download it for free. Depends how goody goody you are really. My opinion is apple are greedy gits who deserve it.

[bartelby]

[size=4]
These versions of Apple Pro Apps are compatible with macOS High Sierra:[/size][list]
[*]Final Cut Pro X 10.3.4 or later
[*]Motion 5.3.2 or later
[*]Compressor 4.3.2 or later
[*]Logic Pro X 10.3.1 or later
[*]MainStage 3.3 or later
[/list]


http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207888

[Dood]

[quote name='YouMa' timestamp='1503562288' post='3359099']
Jailbreak your ios or wait till a new jailbreak comes out from pangu.Then download it for free. Depends how goody goody you are really. My opinion is apple are greedy gits who deserve it.
[/quote]

I think Ed means OSX, the desktop OS rather than IOS the Mobile one.

[xgsjx]

If you're running Logic Pro 9 or earlier, then I can understand where they're coming from. I agree that they should offer a discount, but then again, Logic Pro X is already a bargain considering all what you get with it.

[tonyquipment]

[quote name='YouMa' timestamp='1503562288' post='3359099']
Jailbreak your ios or wait till a new jailbreak comes out from pangu.Then download it for free. Depends how goody goody you are really. My opinion is apple are greedy gits who deserve it.
[/quote]

This.

[ambient]

What version of Logic are you running?

Logic X has been out for over 4 years, I guess they think that there are very few people still running older versions.

It's the same when any operating system changes. I know people who use ProTools on PCs, they found they couldn't open it when they updated from whatever Windows system they use.

Edited August 24, 2017 by ambient

[xgsjx]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1503565122' post='3359142']
What version of Logic are you running?

Logic X has been out for over 4 years, I guess they think that there are very few people still running it.

It's the same when any operating system changes. I know people who use ProTools on PCs, they found they couldn't open it when they updated from whatever Windows system they use.
[/quote]
But... Logic X is the current one. I use it & never got any email about it not being compatible with the OS update.

[ivansc]

I recently bought my first ever Mac specifically to run Logic 9 for a friend. Still on mavericks, everything works great and I am about to buy a Focusrite liquid mix 32 which will work just fine on Mavericks but not on later OS updates.
If it aint broke why fix it? Your existing setup isnt going to stop working unless you do the OSX update.

Of course you could always switch to Reaper (my main recording software on PC and Mac for a very long time after Sonar went all weird at 2.8.5) which is totally OS-gnostic.

Edited August 24, 2017 by ivansc

[ambient]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1503565858' post='3359154']
But... Logic X is the current one. I use it & never got any email about it not being compatible with the OS update.
[/quote]

Yeah, I meant 'it' to mean whatever version of Logic he's using. My first coffee hadn't kicked in .

[Woodinblack]

But why do you have to upgrade your version of OSX (as I assumed you meant) if the only thing you use it for is for logic? That machine will happily run logic for ever, it will never be taken away, so just leave it at that version. I kept 10.6 for a long time as I needed software that ran on it (until I just recently found an equivalent). By the time I upgraded it was 6 years older than its next update.

[crez5150]

Just depends on if you want the lates gizmo's that go with it... I have a mac for tracking on OS9 still running logic 8 which works perfectly fine. I also have Macbook with Logic X but I'm happy to buy the new one when it comes out for the latest toys....

£140??? not a lot of money.... I remember paying £800 for Motu Digital Performer....

[ambient]

Don't upgrade, there's no need to.

My old MacBook was a white plastic bodied one from 2009 I think. It was still running perfectly well on whatever OS it had on it, it had never been updated, and was quite happily running Logic 9. The only reason I sold it was because I wanted to use Logic X, which is what was being used at uni.

[edstraker123]

Yes I'm running Logic 9 - For all I use it I don't need any additional functionality. My concerns about not upgrading would be missing out on security patches but then I could disable the connectivity I suppose.

[xgsjx]

You could get Logic X. It's a great investment, even just for drummer.

[BigRedX]

If it works as you want, there is absolutely no reason to update any computer software. If the applications you are using don't run under the next version of the operating system then [b]DON'T UPDATE IT[/b].

I still run Logic 9 under El Capitan. Both do everything In need, and therefore I see no reason to muck about with updates to either.

Edited August 24, 2017 by BigRedX

[JapanAxe]

I'm puzzled by Apple's business model for iTunes. Each new version is more buggy and less intuitive than the one before. I am a long time Mac user, and I don't know of any software that is more sh!t than iTunes.

[Damonjames]

Apples business model???

What about pro tools??? Now you need to buy the software AND pay an annual subscription. It's probably not so bad for professional studio's, but for the home user it's a bit rich!!!

[SpondonBassed]

One of the promises that was made to our generation when PCs were being pushed at the consumer in general was [i]backward compatibility[/i] to prevent just this sort of thing.

That promise was a pie crust to launch a major sales drive getting folk to buy a chunk of IT pie for the first time. Maybe that promise was an idealistic claim to start with but it was a significant selling point for IT. It helped to persuade people into hardware ownership. Lots of companies were giving out loans to put customers on their books.

You have to remember that the costs of IT ownership were huge to start with. My first IT system cost in the region of three thousand pounds when all of the licensing was added up! From there dependency on IT systems developed amongst the population at large. When it was demonstrated that people would fork out time and time again for the same stuff, the concept of backwards compatibility was lost forever.

To suggest that it's part of the business model to make customers pay twice for the same product is difficult to prove however. We all know it happens but what part of the whole industry can you actually point a finger of blame at? Most of the blame lies with consumers for going along with it. The industry is just supplying a demand from its customer base.

BTW, MS users are quite used to this. Why would Apple developers not want to compete on the same terms?

It's the way of commerce.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1503608466' post='3359714']
If it works as you want, there is absolutely no reason to update any computer software. If the applications you are using don't run under the next version of the operating system then [b]DON'T UPDATE IT[/b].

I still run Logic 9 under El Capitan. Both do everything In need, and therefore I see no reason to muck about with updates to either.
[/quote]

I agree. It's not always in the consumer's interest to update. Of course no-one will back you up if you don't but it is always your choice.

Keeping a machine or two offline always is a good way of managing the risks of using older yet perfectly good software. You have to keep your older hardware though. Also, you have to work without a network. It isn't difficult like the waftier wifi bunnies would have you believe. I say this having the luxury of space to use it all. You may not have that luxury so you get my sympathy as poor consolation.

[Dan Dare]

Apple's business model? Bleed the customer white...

[fiatcoupe432]

You could also get pro tools now at £20 a month subscription not bad eh?

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1503644061' post='3359843']
One of the promises that was made to our generation when PCs were being pushed at the consumer in general was [i]backward compatibility[/i] to prevent just this sort of thing.
[/quote]

I remember no such promise ever by anyone. Where does that come from? I think it is something we took for granted.
One of the really frustrating things about writing software is having to forgo using some of the better tools and the newer ways of working because there is someone with a 10 year old computer who objects to updating it. One of the real frustrations is wading through 8 tons of spam because someone doesn't want to upgrade their 15 year old system that was never secure to begin with.

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1503644061' post='3359843']
To suggest that it's part of the business model to make customers pay twice for the same product is difficult to prove however. We all know it happens but what part of the whole industry can you actually point a finger of blame at? Most of the blame lies with consumers for going along with it. The industry is just supplying a demand from its customer base.
[/quote]

The reason we have poorly performing software is because we the consumer, keep wanting new things.

Go back in time - the idea of having a multichannel recording facility to the level we have even 30 years ago is beyond belief for anything short of the cost of a small house. Now a grand for a computer and a £150 for a piece of software gives you that. If you buy that bit of software today, there is nothing that is going to stop it working, barring mechanical breakdown of the computer.
However, if you want your fantastic home recording studio to also want to play games on facebook and write letters to your aunt you want to update it to do that.
If a company has to hire a bunch of people to check that software that was written a decade ago is still compatible with the systems we have today, then we have to pay more for software, or we have to stop updating the software to get new things, it is as simple as that.
Back in the day when I had one of the original Mac version of steinberg, I had a boot system that would just load that and nothing else (mostly so it didn't clash with anything else and it had more memory). If you want to keep your old system, don't update to the new operating system. If it is essential for whatever reason that you update, get a second boot area and boot into that one. Or better yet, pick up an old mac mini that isn't connected to anything and use that as your mixing system and nothing else then you never have to update it.

[Dad3353]

I've still got my Atari Stacey. I don't use it very much these days, although it works just fine. Just sayin'.