Audio interface for recording band live

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

I'm in the process of acquiring a new PA for my pub band, and it's got me thinking about options for getting some better quality live recordings. We currently put keys and vocals only through the PA, so taking a stereo out from the mixer isn't any help, and as we only have PA tops we couldn't sensibly put the drums and bass through the PA in order to have everything in the mix for recording. I could use a couple of the aux outputs, and put everything into those auxes, but even then I think getting a decent stereo mix is going to be difficult.

I was looking around at low cost audio interfaces with at least 8 inputs / mic pre's, and there's things like the Tascam 16x08, a Behringer model I can't recall the name of, and the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 in the £200 to £300 range.

The question I have is whether any of these, or similar devices, will allow me to do a multitrack recording and in parallel feed the vocals and keys inputs straight through to outputs (so I can take them into our mixer for the PA) with zero or low enough latency for the live sound. Does anyone have any experience of trying to do this?

The only other solution I can think of at the moment would be to get an 8 channel passive mic splitter, to feed the audio interface and PA mixer in parallel, but even a cheap one of those is the best part of £100.

At the moment this is more a personal "I fancy having a go at this" project rather than a band requirement, hence the budget limitation. We've talked about options for getting decent demo recordings together (just to support getting gigs) and the consensus seems to be that the safer option would be to spend a couple of hundred on getting that done in a studio. To be honest, while I think I could probably get a reasonable source recording, I appreciate (from a limited amount of home recording) that getting a decent mix is an entirely different matter, so I'm not willing to stick my neck out and say "buy the kit and I'll make us a demo".

[Dood]

Buy something like the Behringer XR or X mixers. We use the XR18 in our band. It has a built in multichannel interface. job done. We've just spent a day recording live tracks and even just using 16 tracks, the results have been stunning. (But then, I am very lucky to be in a band whose musicians really know their gear and get it right first take, but that's another story!!) The thing is, we turned up with the mixer and a Laptop, recorded the whole band in to Logic!

The great thing I suppose is that most of the time we don't need the interface, but it's great knowing that we can just hook up and record at a moments notice without any extra cables. The XR18 also deals with all of our IEM routings too. Life is very easy with it around.

[Dankology]

If your mixer has insert points on each channel (that aren't being used) you can wire a stereo jack to a mono one (or an XLR or phono or whatever you need) to "tap" the signal without breaking the signal chain. You can even do the same thing by inserting an instrument lead part way in but if anyone knocks it you could lose that instrument in the main mix... If you Google "insert point" + "direct out" I'm sure you'll find the (very simple) wiring diagram.

Even simpler if you're lucky enough to have proper direct outs on your mixer. Or something that delivers all the audio to a memory stick or laptop )

I've got a Tascam 16 track interface that was great for recording gigs - can't remember the exact model and am not at home to check but I think it has 8 phantom-equipped XLRs another 6 jack inputs plus a stereo digital input. We now use 3 x 8-channel splitters plus an Alesis HD24 - which works great apart from in places where they use a digital snake...

Depending on the circumstances we also occasionally use a 4-track Tascam recorder with the board signal going into two channels and a pair of stereo mics going into the other two - not really what you're asking about but can give very satisfying results.

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

Dood, the XR18 would have been my first choice for mixer for the reasons you stated, but I couldn't really justify the cost - I think they're about £600 at the moment? We're a pub band, playing at most a couple of gigs a month (and only in the last 10 months or so) purely for the fun of it, so whilst we do get paid we're not exactly rolling in cash.

We've actually gone for the Soundcraft UI12 (eyes wide open, and fingers firmly crossed on this - I've read the stories about WiFi drop outs, so I'll be using an external router, and I'm not worried about noisy preamps - we're a pub band!). I did look at the smallest of the Behringer XR mixers but the Soundcraft won it on the fact that it's got more preamps and also the ability to have four separate aux mixes - I have a cunning plan to try and get myself and the drummer onto in-ears, but I think that's a way off yet.

As I said, this is more a potential personal project - I'd probably be happy to spend a couple of hundred on an audio interface, but if it gets beyond that (e.g. with mic splitters, etc.) then it's probably getting too expensive. It was more a question of understanding what the capabilities of some of these interfaces are with respect to routing ins to outs with no, or acceptable, latency. Also the Focusrite in particular, whilst being relatively old technology, seems to be a pretty good deal at £250 at the moment - I guess they're probably about to be (or already are) discontinued.

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

[quote name='Dankology' timestamp='1503587276' post='3359434']
If your mixer has insert points on each channel (that aren't being used) you can wire a stereo jack to a mono one (or an XLR or phono or whatever you need) to "tap" the signal without breaking the signal chain. You can even do the same thing by inserting an instrument lead part way in but if anyone knocks it you could lose that instrument in the main mix... If you Google "insert point" + "direct out" I'm sure you'll find the (very simple) wiring diagram.

Even simpler if you're lucky enough to have proper direct outs on your mixer. Or something that delivers all the audio to a memory stick or laptop )

I've got a Tascam 16 track interface that was great for recording gigs - can't remember the exact model and am not at home to check but I think it has 8 phantom-equipped XLRs another 6 jack inputs plus a stereo digital input. We now use 3 x 8-channel splitters plus an Alesis HD24 - which works great apart from in places where they use a digital snake...

Depending on the circumstances we also occasionally use a 4-track Tascam recorder with the board signal going into two channels and a pair of stereo mics going into the other two - not really what you're asking about but can give very satisfying results.
[/quote]

Sadly the mixer (UI12 - see above just posted) doesn't have insert points, so that's not an option, but thanks for the suggestion - I've just googled it so I've learned something new!

The mixer will record to USB, but as far as I can tell there's no control over that, it's simply whatever's on the main outs - which makes sense in some situations but not ours.

[Dankology]

If you really keep an eye out you can sometimes get an 8-channel splitter on Ebay for around £100. I bet you could get an older interface for £100 too so you'd still be in budget and would have a rock-solid set-up.

But if it's only a couple of channels you need to split, the Behringer DI-20 DI boxes can be used as single channel splitters: a couple of those second hand wouldn't be too costly. You could even just wire up some passive splits for pennies - worst case scenario is that they could introduce noise but if that happens you could just pull them and forfeit the recording?

I think my Tascam is a generation older than the one you mention above but the latency (certainly using my laptop) is such that I wouldn't want to trust it to pass signal to the PA.

Or you could do that thing you always see on old concert broadcasts where all the singers have two mics gaffa'd together

Have fun whatever you do - I love recording gigs and have had to bodge my way through any number of jobs complicated by "eccentric" venue installations. And eccentric engineers, for that matter.

[EBS_freak]

If you aren't using phantom, standard XLR splitters will do you. If you are using phantom, you'll need isolated splitters.

https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/Splitter-Combiners/Studiospares-RED800-Mic-Splitter_458950.htm

and a cheapy snake from Thomanns will do you for the odd recording.

the cheapest was to get multitrack recordings in a mixer is the Behringer stuff already mentioned.

[pete.young]

I have an old recording interface from Presonus called a 'Firepod' which does thist quite well. You can route mike inputs through the interface and out into the mixer, and take line feeds off everything else. You'll need to find a way of miking the drums and you'll still get some bleed through but it gives you a lot more control than just recording the main outs.

Firepod is a bit ancient and works best with Firewire interfaces but you should find something USB by now, second hand , for not a lot of money. You'll have to factor in the cost of some cables too.

[Dankology]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1503590354' post='3359487']
If you aren't using phantom, standard XLR splitters will do you. If you are using phantom, you'll need isolated splitters.
[/quote]

Isolated splits also help avoid hums and other unpleasantness - but if it's your own gig I definitely give it a punt with simple splitters first.

The more I think about it, the more I seem to remember someone like Zoom putting out a sort of in-line 8 track device a year or two ago - I think the idea was that you placed it between the instruments and the desk, hit record and it recorded directly to as SD card.

btw - don't forget to budget for a pair of mics (and a way of mounting them) to capture the rapturous audience response...

[Elfrasho]

Zoom r16 maybe? Great wee unit... 8 inputs... Must be pretty cheap these days

[51m0n]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1503578416' post='3359329']
Buy something like the Behringer XR or X mixers. We use the XR18 in our band. It has a built in multichannel interface. job done. We've just spent a day recording live tracks and even just using 16 tracks, the results have been stunning. (But then, I am very lucky to be in a band whose musicians really know their gear and get it right first take, but that's another story!!) The thing is, we turned up with the mixer and a Laptop, recorded the whole band in to Logic!

The great thing I suppose is that most of the time we don't need the interface, but it's great knowing that we can just hook up and record at a moments notice without any extra cables. The XR18 also deals with all of our IEM routings too. Life is very easy with it around.
[/quote]


+1

[only4]

We use a Cymatic audio LR-16 which is an interface that can record up to 16 separate tracks onto a USB hard drive which you can then transfer to your software of choice.
It uses the mixer inserts for its feed.
They are no longer making them but they seem to be still available from some online shops.
We record every gig and have got so used to it that none of the band even notice anymore, if we get even one great track from each gig then it's worth it.

[MilkyBarKid]

Doesn't the tascan 16x06 function as a live mixer too - I'd think it was worth a look. The tascam us2000 might also be worth a look with 16 inputs.

[mrtcat]

Behringer X air XR18 used here:

https://youtu.be/1c7haVAqMrw

and here:

https://youtu.be/bXwjJ_isqng

And in lots of other vids we have. I think it has a really nice inherent warmth to the sound and have been really pleased with it.

[Woodinblack]

The XR16 (which I have) works well for just the loss of a few channels and a multichannel option, or the X18 (which I am about to swing for) is a couple of hundred quid off the XR18 and has the same functionality

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1503691650' post='3360404']
Behringer X air XR18 used here:
[/quote]

Very jealous of your sound quality. We have so much volume on stage that everything is yelled and it sounds poor, but I can't get them to turn down. We need ear protection just for practice, sod any chance of dynamics!

[bazzbass]

you bought the wrong mixer, unlucky.

I still reckon a Tascam or Zoom portable 4 track recorder with two in built condensors and a stereo out from the PA might be your best bet given your budget limitations. They get a pretty good even live mix imho. You can mix their levels and panning later within the device. I have the Tascam DR 40