Power amps, can someone help please

[kevvo66]

Hello everybody, running a power amp with trace 150 head, the Greek said give it a try, but don't have clue what to look for and what will it bring too the sound and power wise sorry if it's sounds a stupid question
Cheers
Kev

[TheGreek]

I'm running a Prosound 1000d - you can pick them up for around £100-150 on ebay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Prosound-1000D-1000-Watt-Class-D-Digital-Lightweight-Amplifier-/253067579572?hash=item3aec00d0b4:g:LZUAAOSwYYpZe1Tj

These look good.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Prosound-1600-Amp-No1-/182746278097?hash=item2a8c86e8d1:g:Iu4AAOSwgspZrBdv
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Prosound-2-Channel-800W-Power-Amplifier/253128405716?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D45be015533dc46aea9bee4629638588b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D152684064086&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

The QSC are well regarded.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QSC-AUDIO-USA-850-Professional-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-/192295839732?hash=item2cc5b9a7f4:g:YSsAAOSwJ4hY9KRV

[kevvo66]

Cool, thanks

[bazzbass]

I don't understand, has the head lost it's power section or do you want more power from it?

run the effects out from your head into your amp.this will give you the sound of your amp but with more power.

I hope this is what you were after

[kevvo66]

It's more power I was after but got it now thanks, people

[la bam]

I'm always confused with people using power amps.

Each amp is completely different in quality and sound.

There's a world of difference between the pro sound and qsc, so it must affect the sound?

Isn't part of the (bass) amps quality and sound the actually power amp it uses?

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1504687291' post='3366512']
I'm always confused with people using power amps.

Each amp is completely different in quality and sound.

There's a world of difference between the pro sound and qsc, so it must affect the sound?

Isn't part of the (bass) amps quality and sound the actually power amp it uses?
[/quote]

The main difference between the brands like ProSound (and similar low power budget amps aimed at the DJ market) and QSC is that QSC and other better quality amps will have stiffer power supplies and be a lot pokier. The actual "sound" is created in the preamp/eq section.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Dan Dare

[Dood]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1504708931' post='3366796']
The main difference between the brands like ProSound (and similar low power budget amps aimed at the DJ market) and QSC is that QSC and other better quality amps will have stiffer power supplies and be a lot pokier. The actual "sound" is created in the preamp/eq section.
[/quote]

Yup, agree with that. Cheaper amps can sound loud, but often lack depth and that all important balls. Cheaper amplifiers often contain cheaper components and weaker, thinner circuit boards. Fine for the odd gig, but hard work on those is likely to end up in failure. I've spotted a few tests on some of the 'high power' cheap amplifiers where an infrared camera was used to see what happens to the component temperature when under stress. The likes of QSC, Powersoft and other big brands use high spec' components and the design meant that components were adequately kept cool under load. Really not so for the cheaper amplifiers which when cooking will lead to a faster failure.

Finally, and using my own amplifier as an example, when it comes to sound quality, even down to the cheap ceramic capacitors used in the signal path can affect the sound. The very best audio capacitors which, although not that expensive individually, used instead will deliver a much clearer and better sound. Manufacturers want to keep costs down to a minimum so a ceramic will get used over a film capacitor often.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1504709791' post='3366809']
Yup, agree with that. Cheaper amps can sound loud, but often lack depth and that all important balls.
[/quote]

"Balls"?

"BALLS"???

Surely you mean [size=5][color=#ff0000][i][b]HEFT[/b][/i][/color][/size]?

[Dood]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1504709863' post='3366810']
"Balls"?

"BALLS"???

Surely you mean [size=5][color=#ff0000][i][b]HEFT[/b][/i][/color][/size]?
[/quote]

Ha ha ha ha

There seemed to be some confusion over heft before. I hoped this more generic term would be a better description lol!

[la bam]

Yes, I used to dj for 10 years and the difference between using different amps (with all other play out being the same) was incredible. From thin sounding cheaper end, through to high end amps were i was hearing things in the songs I'd never heard before. The amps had their own voicing just as bass amps do.

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1504710109' post='3366813']


Ha ha ha ha

There seemed to be some confusion over heft before. I hoped this more generic term would be a better description lol!
[/quote]

That's why I opted for "poke"...

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1504711721' post='3366827']
Yes, I used to dj for 10 years and the difference between using different amps (with all other play out being the same) was incredible. From thin sounding cheaper end, through to high end amps were i was hearing things in the songs I'd never heard before. The amps had their own voicing just as bass amps do.
[/quote]

Yep. You really do get what you pay for. There's a reason Lab Gruppens and similar cost what they do.

[kevvo66]

Thanks guys ,I'm going to buy something decent , false economy never really pays off and only leads too regrets in the long run
Now what too look at !

[Roland Rock]

To me, 'poke' is a prominent midrange which cuts through the mix. 'Balls' or 'Heft' are an overall umami richness.
All of which are sound!
Of course power amps affect sound! To me it seems ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

I think it must come down to individual perception of what 'sound' is.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Roland Rock

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1504687291' post='3366512']
I'm always confused with people using power amps.

Each amp is completely different in quality and sound.

There's a world of difference between the pro sound and qsc, so it must affect the sound?

Isn't part of the (bass) amps quality and sound the actually power amp it uses?
[/quote]

Well ... no ... I dont think there is much difference between sold state power amps / amp power sections[b] if the amp is running comfortably within its rated power handling[/b], the high quality amps will be better at coping with extreme and challenging loads though. I've had various pre/power amp seperates and single amps over the years and never noticed any aspect of the sound that I would attribute to the power amp/section, that is just the bit that makes what ever goes in lounder. Valve amp are bit of a different animal though as the power section is integral to the sound.

Edited September 8, 2017 by bassman7755

[la bam]

If you play music (ie pre recorded music / dj) through them, you'll see just what a difference there is between brands and models.

The higher end have a much deeper and smoother sound all round, the lower end models have little depth and warmth in comparison.

It's not just a case of any 500w amp will drive your pre amp sound and sound the same. The power amps all have their own colour and attributes as well.

[bassmayhem]

I used to have a QSC PLX 3402: a fantastic power amp. 2 ohm able in 1700 W RMS per side and 3400 W RMS bridged in 4 ohms.
9 kg Class D. Has high pass filter that cuts at 50 Hz (not good), 30 Hz (perfect, no audible difference) and no cut. Without the filter you could actually push the woofers out of their frames by pressing the strings towards the pickup...
QSC is a company of Pat Quilter, who makes the Quilter BassBlock 800...

[Jack]

See, on the other hand, I always used the 50Hz filter on my QSC. Fantastic amps either way.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1505014835' post='3368848']
See, on the other hand, I always used the 50Hz filter on my QSC. Fantastic amps either way.
[/quote]

I played for years on the 50hz setting which I had set by mistake thinking it was the 30hz setting. When I switched it to 30 I didnt notice much difference. But yeah Id not advise bypassing the HPF on one of these amps with any speaker you care about as they are capably of pumping out brutal amounts of near-DC current.

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1505032970' post='3368908']


I played for years on the 50hz setting which I had set by mistake thinking it was the 30hz setting. When I switched it to 30 I didnt notice much difference. But yeah Id not advise bypassing the HPF on one of these amps with any speaker you care about as they are capably of pumping out brutal amounts of near-DC current.
[/quote]

A definite yes to this. In practice, you don't lose anything subjectively by using the HPF, especially at 30hz. It will also give you more headroom, by saving the power amp from working so hard.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Chienmortbb]

The big PA amps like QSC Crown Crest are effectively hifi wi flat responses although even some of these brands use smoke and mirrors power ratings. Matrix produce power amps for guitars and bases that are solid state and I believe they use high impedance uotputs to mimic a valve power stage. These will have "voicing". Ironically they are A/B amps with switch mode supplies.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1505210249' post='3370192']
Interesting regarding the 'voice' of power amps.

Heading a little off topic, but for sound reinforcement you'd think that anything which wasn't, to all intents and purposes, flat between it's range of response, and with a respone of at least in the region of 20-20.000hz just plain wasn't fit for purpose.
[/quote]

The other thing is that if you design a solid state power amp with "character" your deviating from well tried and tested designs that have been refined over decades and withstood countless millions of hours of abuse. It makes much more sense in every way to have a highly linear power stage and do all the funky stuff in the preamp.