Beginner strings and set-up?

[kristo]

I'm looking to get my newly acquired (second-hand) double bass set up with some new strings to try and help with learning the instrument. I'm an absolute beginner and not really sure what would be best. I have found a local guy who sets up double basses and am now trying to decide on what strings would be best for me and how to ask for it to be set up. Currently the strings seem fairly high in tension and the action quite high.

I'm hoping to play blues, bluegrass and jazz pizzicato, and would appreciate any advice on a good starting string/setup for this. I've done a bit of searching on here and Innovation Silver Slaps have caught my eye. They seem like a good string for my style, but I'm not sure if they are good for a low action. Is a low action even a good idea???

I would appreciate any guidance from experienced players. Cheers.

[Grangur]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/1545-bilbo/"]Bilbo[/url] lives in Lowestoft, I believe. He's a jazz DB player. If you don't get any answers here. I'm sure he'll be pleased to point you in the right direction

[jrixn1]

I have Silver Slaps with medium action, and they work well for the musical styles you mention. The low tension makes them quite easy to play (compared to steels).

[kristo]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1504792059' post='3367349']
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/1545-bilbo/"]Bilbo[/url] lives in Lowestoft, I believe. He's a jazz DB player. If you don't get any answers here. I'm sure he'll be pleased to point you in the right direction
[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote name='jrixn1' timestamp='1504794507' post='3367373']
I have Silver Slaps with medium action, and they work well for the musical styles you mention. The low tension makes them quite easy to play (compared to steels).
[/quote]

That's good to hear, thanks.

[Marc S]

When you start playing double bass, the string options are mind blowing compared to bass guitar!
As I started playing DB only a few years back - I recall my DB strings seemed incredibly high tension!

There are several options for lower tension strings. Spirocore Weichs are low tension for a metal string (because they have a synthetic core) Innovation also do a synthetic core, steel outer type string; Innovation Honeys
Which are also quite low tension (but slightly higher tension than Silver Slaps). It all depends on your style of play, and how you want to develop, for instance, do you want a more aggressive finger style, or a softer style, do you want to slap? Will you want to bow at some point?

Innovation Silver & Gold slaps are definitely lower tension than traditional type DB strings. I have a set on my DB. I went through a phase of wanting to learn slap stlye - so I started out with some synthetic Weedwakers, kindly donated by Beedster of this parish Though the weedwakers are very low tension (I mean very low!) they were great to start learning to slap - but they kept stretching & stretching, and the E string was too flabby and ill defined... still, they did their job and started me on the road to where I wanted to be....

Re my last point - you may find your stlye adapts & "grows" - so if you're going to take your DB to a luthier, it may be a good opportunity to get him / her to fit an adjustable bridge. I have one on my DB (and my EUB) and they are a god-send. As you develop your style of playing and build up the strength in your fingers - so you may want to adjust the height of your action. It's easy with an adjustable bridge, and also useful if / when you want to try other string types - which always seem to be very different gauges! It might seem expensive now - but you will find it pays in future, as you can set up the bridge to your own hight requirements in future....

Perhaps the action was set fairly high, as the last owner played slap / rockabilly style? But what might seem a high action to a Bass Guitar player, may not seem high to a DB player...

In any case - a word of caution as you're new to DB - but take care when changing DB strings yourself! - You must lay the bass on its' back, or the sound-post will fall over You really don't want that, as it takes a special tool to stand it up again, and getting it in the "right" spot can be tricky if you don't know what you're doing... I tend to also change only one string at a time, to prevent the sound-post falling...

PS. I really like Silver Slaps. They feel a nice tension and I find them among the easiest strings on your fingers. They're not so low tension as to sound flabby - indeed, I think they sound great. Some have commented that they sound quite a lot like gut strings - but I couldn't say that for sure myself, as I've not played a DB with gut strings. Only thing, Silver Slaps don't bow well at all

Best of luck in your exciting journey - I love DB, and so glad I took that first step

Edited September 8, 2017 by Marc S

[Marc S]

PPS. A little off topic - but a useful tip from Rockabilly DB player Pete Turland;

For those who want to swap between playing slap and Jazz style - if you don't have an adjustable bridge
Pete says he's seen players place small, thin wooden blocks underneath the bridge feet - to raise the action for slapping, then take them out again when you have a Jazz gig...

I'd add to this - Obviously, lay the bass on its' back and gradually lower the tension of the strings, again to prevent a sound-post disaster...

Edited September 8, 2017 by Marc S

[kristo]

Thanks for the great replies Marc. I guess the first thing to do is work out which strings are currently on it. Any idea what these may be:

https://i.imgur.com/ICPJzhN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tOoBYKq.jpg

[SubsonicSimpleton]

What do the ball ends look like?

[kristo]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1504883255' post='3368062']
What do the ball ends look like?
[/quote]

Any help:

https://i.imgur.com/lBGVHfj.jpg

[Marc S]

From memory, Spirocore Weichs have purple binding - but you say they feel high tension...
There's a string identifier thread on here....
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/209121-string-identifier/page__hl__string%20identifier"]http://basschat.co.u...ng%20identifier[/url]

Might be of help.... but I think there are a few others who have discussed this on different threads too....

Edited September 8, 2017 by Marc S

[SubsonicSimpleton]

I would reckon you have Dominant E & A and Superflexible D & G

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[kristo]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1504914942' post='3368347']
I would reckon you have Dominant E & A and Superflexible D & G
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. After a bit more playing I'm slowly getting used to them. I haven't played another double bass so have no reference of what low/high tension feels like on an upright.

[bassace]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1504918582' post='3368356']

This isnt really a good idea. If the bridge is correctly fitted then the feet have been hand finished to match the contour of the table for maximum contact. Put wooden shims under there and the sound is compromised, as is the potential stability of the bridge.
[/quote]

I wouldn't like to disagree with this, in theory anyway. But sometimes you can take a few liberties with the DB. The table of my Kolstein has dropped to the point where I don't want to wind any more thread out of the adjusters. I keep a stock of thin pieces of laminated wood that some types of cheese are sold in. I took a piece approx 3mm, cut it into two to go under the bridge feet, steamed it using a kettle to make it pliable and slipped it under the bridge. It immediately took up the curvature and works perfectly with no loss of tone.

Incidentally, before you slacken the strings you can wedge a piece of wood, cut accurately to size, between the underside of the fingerboard overstand and the table. That will maintain pressure on the sondpost and guarantee it'll be kept in place. Put a piece of cloth between the wedge and the table to protect it from scratches. I learnt that little trick from Gearge Martin.

I'd post photos but my skills are defeated by BC and I'm in no mood to figure out third party hosting tricks.

Edited September 9, 2017 by bassace

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[bassace]

The bass has been through a few hands since Kolstein, and it's not feasible to return it to US. But it's no big deal, the 'drop' is actually less than 2mm and I used the 3mm packer to also wind the adjusters down a bit after removing a Lifeline.

The point of the post, however, was to demonstrate that bridge feet packers from suitable material,are perfectly feasible as used before me by others. Sorry if this point wasn't fully grasped.

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[Marc S]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1504918582' post='3368356']
This isnt really a good idea. If the bridge is correctly fitted then the feet have been hand finished to match the contour of the table for maximum contact. Put wooden shims under there and the sound is compromised, as is the potential stability of the bridge.
[/quote]

Well then tell Pete Turland!
As I had already mentioned - he was suggesting it as a simple, inexpensive method for swapping between string types and gauges....
He states that he knows several famous players who employ this practice, and I'm sure such an experienced professional DB player wouldn't recommend it if he didn't think it was acceptable
he was after all voted as being among the top 10 rockabilly DB players of all time.....

Edited September 11, 2017 by Marc S

[Marc S]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1505049624' post='3369108']
Ah! Gotcha. That's not at the extreme end.
Still wouldnt recommend or consider the wooden shims route myself. Not standard luthiery practice for a reason, i guess.
Realist pickups allegedly fit to the bridge foot perfectly as well, but folks end up using heavier string guages at the pickup side to compensate for the resultant uneven response, or taking their bass to a luthier for adjustment without realising the pickup is the problem.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying shims arent "feasible" - but it's not the optimal way to do things......
[/quote]

It wasn't being suggested as "optimal" in the first place
I was merely talking over different options for differing playing styles, for a beginner to consider...
As you may have missed from my original post - I was suggesting that when sending a DB to a luthier for the first time,
he may wish to think about getting an adjustable bridge fitted - partly to learn about, appreciate and experience different string heights
especially since at this stage, he may also wish to be trying different string gauges....

EDIT: Here's the youtube video. If you have any interest in slap DB at all, Pete is an excellent teacher. It was this video that started me on the road to slapping
I'd watched several other videos, and not quite got the mechanics of it until I saw several of Pete's videos. I know a couple of guys who've met him, and they couldn't get over what a great guy he is
Like his style of playing & teaching too - but that's a strange (and likeable) accent he has - a sort of English / Canadian hybrid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SriEOjsDCo

Edited September 11, 2017 by Marc S

[Marc S]

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1504962837' post='3368591']

....Incidentally, before you slacken the strings you can wedge a piece of wood, cut accurately to size, between the underside of the fingerboard overstand and the table. That will maintain pressure on the sondpost and guarantee it'll be kept in place. Put a piece of cloth between the wedge and the table to protect it from scratches. I learnt that little trick from Gearge Martin....

[/quote]

Useful tip there bassace

[Marc S]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1504918278' post='3368354']
Nope. Spiro Weichs have the same spiral rope core as the mittels. Not a synthetic core at all.
[/quote]

Errr... can you tell me exactly what components are used in the rope core? Rope can of course, be made of several components, and often several quite different materials - several of them synthetic...
I was using the loosest meaning of the word "synthetic" in order to demonstrate that the core material of Spirocore Weich strings are a different material to the outer metal windings

As such pedantries can deviate the topic from the OP's original question, and cloud important issues, I would like to repeat my point that Spirocore Weichs are a low tension option (whatever exact materials constitute the core)

Edited September 11, 2017 by Marc S

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker