Has anyone had their Public Liability Insurance tested/claimed against ?

[Les]

I know a lot us have it and need it for the odd gig that insists on it but I don't know anyone who has had a claim.

Any of us actually needed it and had a claim ?

Les

[skidder652003]

Im seriously considering getting it but would be interested to see if anyone at all has ever needed it, especially in a pub gig where the pubs PLI should cover, but lets not discuss that here!!!!

[Les]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1505837921' post='3374675']
Im seriously considering getting it but would be interested to see if anyone at all has ever needed it,
[/quote]

The only time we've ever "needed" it was to actually get a 2 day gig we wanted, They wanted to book us but that was one of their conditions.
It was cheap enough to carry on with every year.

It;s starting to feel like no one at our level has ever had a claim made against them.

[ivansc]

FWIW the event organiser or the owner/tenant of the premises is required by law to have TP liability insurance anyway, so this erstwhile government requirement was about as well thought-out as so many attempts at clobbering the live music scene. We had ONE gig a year that required TP liability and wanted to see all our PAT stickers, Since the insurance was £175 and the gig only paid £450, we decided it was better to dump the gig. Bloody small holiday camps....

[Earbrass]

I have (very reasonable) instrument insurance through New Moon and the policy includes substantial PLI. Maybe check whether you already have it?

[bertbass]

We have it but never claimed on it. Needed it to get some gigs though.

[fretmeister]

I've never needed my house insurance but I'm still going to buy it.

[ambient]

Re the comments[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1505837921' post='3374675']
Im seriously considering getting it but would be interested to see if anyone at all has ever needed it, especially in a pub gig where the pubs PLI should cover, but lets not discuss that here!!!!
[/quote]

That's their insurance though, I'd feel a bit aggrieved if someone was forced to claim off my insurance, resulting in higher premiums for an accident that was caused not by me or my employees, but by a band and their negligence or faulty gear.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505910258' post='3375134']
I've never needed my house insurance but I'm still going to buy it.
[/quote]

This!

It's peace of mind. I get it and equipment insurance along with my MU membership.

[SH73]

I am aware that in this day and age people like suing and making claims but why on earth would you need a PLI?
Isn't that what the landlord should cover along other licensing regulations? I understand the tripping hazards etc etc.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1505914729' post='3375177']
I am aware that in this day and age people like suing and making claims but why on earth would you need a PLI?
Isn't that what the landlord should cover along other licensing regulations? I understand the tripping hazards etc etc.
[/quote]

Because you are a separate entity to the landlord. In other words if a customer is hurt they are going to blame you in any way they can so they don't have to claim on their insurance.

And even if it is just a trip that for example causes a broken wrist - you are going to be paying out a good £10,000 for injury, loss of earnings, any private treatment expenses and the legal fees. If you haven'g got insurance you'll also be paying your own lawyer to make sure the claim was a valid one in the first place.

Trips, electrocutions with your gear, singer throwing something into the crowd, PA stack falling on someone etc etc. None of that is the landlords fault - and even if it was - he will try to shift the blame to you.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1505914729' post='3375177']
I am aware that in this day and age people like suing and making claims but why on earth would you need a PLI?
Isn't that what the landlord should cover along other licensing regulations? I understand the tripping hazards etc etc.
[/quote]

They would if you were employed as the house band and on their books, if a builder working at your house damaged your neighbours fence would you be happy to claim on your own insurance or would you want the builder to sort it out directly? It's no different.

Edited September 20, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[SH73]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1505915062' post='3375182']


They would if you were employed as the house band and on their books, if a builder working at your house damaged your neighbours fence would you be happy to claim on your own insurance or would you want the builder to sort it out directly? It's no different.
[/quote]
I get this.

[SH73]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505915031' post='3375181']


Because you are a separate entity to the landlord. In other words if a customer is hurt they are going to blame you in any way they can so they don't have to claim on their insurance.

And even if it is just a trip that for example causes a broken wrist - you are going to be paying out a good £10,000 for injury, loss of earnings, any private treatment expenses and the legal fees. If you haven'g got insurance you'll also be paying your own lawyer to make sure the claim was a valid one in the first place.

Trips, electrocutions with your gear, singer throwing something into the crowd, PA stack falling on someone etc etc. None of that is the landlords fault - and even if it was - he will try to shift the blame to you.
[/quote]
Understand but what length do claimants go to. Looks like a pub band is mostly for fun but all the cost us it worth it financially?

[fretmeister]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1505915390' post='3375184']
Understand but what length do claimants go to. Looks like a pub band is mostly for fun but all the cost us it worth it financially?
[/quote]

Depends on the injury.

How far would YOU go if because of someone else your wrist was broken and you couldn't work for 2 months? Could you still pay your rent or mortgage if you only got Stat Sick pay for 2 months?

PLI is dirt cheap because the risk is low. Or join the MU - then if a landlord refuses to pay you, they'll get the money out of them. You get the use of their lawyers included in the membership fee.

[SH73]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505915892' post='3375188']


Depends on the injury.

How far would YOU go if because of someone else your wrist was broken and you couldn't work for 2 months? Could you still pay your rent or mortgage if you only got Stat Sick pay for 2 months?

PLI is dirt cheap because the risk is low. Or join the MU - then if a landlord refuses to pay you, they'll get the money out of them. You get the use of their lawyers included in the membership fee.
[/quote]

I get what you're saying. Everytime i see i pub band, it's the drunkest of the crowd in the bands face dancing and junping with a pint glass in their hands. This alone is a health and safety hazard alone to band members. The list is not exhaustive. Surely it's up to the insurer to investigate the genuity and liability of the claim.

[fretmeister]

Of course it is.

And the insurer will do their best to make sure their own customer doesn't have to pay out. That includes shifting the blame. Their resources are enormous.
Then if they have to pay out they'll try to pay out the least possible to protect their shareholders.

[lowdown]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505919077' post='3375230']
Of course it is.

And the insurer will do their best to make sure their own customer doesn't have to pay out. That includes shifting the blame. Their resources are enormous.
Then if they have to pay out they'll try to pay out the least possible to protect their shareholders.
[/quote]

Very much this.

My wife was in a Duo (they have insurance) with another girl singer. At the end of the gig when they were changing out of their stage gear, one of their 15" JBL's ended up on a pi**ed womans head..
Ambulance was called etc, and off to hospital she went to be checked over.. Landlord said to my wife don't worry she is fine, she is always doing stuff like this.
The next day the landlord called my wife after getting her number from the agent asking if she has insurance ? The woman went to a 'no win, no fee' insurance claims company.

I will cut it short, but the outcome was a three year (or two days short of three years) saga before it was resolved. My wifes company paid out around £1800 to the woman. plus the claims company take their cut, if I understand correctly. I don’t know, but possibly the landlord is in bother over not having the proper insurance (PLI) on his social club, his health & safety plan had issues (tables right in front of the PA speakers), he was operating some kind of gambling game on the night without a licence, not filling out an accident report, I mean the list is endless. The womans private life opened up all kinds of nonsense from her serious drink problem, previous claims through 'no win no fee', Her husbands self employed decorating business was failing apart just before the incident. I have not really covered it all. A witness at the club said the woman was really drunk and fell onto the speaker stand and knocked it over. The woman claimed the stand just collapsed and fell over onto her.To be honest, the whole story sounded like a load of nonsense.
As a side note, the woman claiming and her husband had told the landlord that they should be able to get around ten grand in compensation from him and the girls (my wife's duo), but that didn't go to plan.

My advice from my wife’s experience is, GET insurance if you are playing in public places. During the three year period, we did plenty of online reading and we discovered a lot of people (try and) claim for anything because of the 'no win, no fee' companies operating.

Edited September 20, 2017 by lowdown

[fretmeister]

The compensation amounts have to fall within a bracket - they are published in the Judicial College Guide for Personal Injury Damages. So you can't claim £25,000 for a scratch, and an insurer can't offer you £50 for losing an eye either.

Loss of earnings has to be proved with pay slips or accountancy records. Future losses are more speculative but there is a formula that is followed.

But - before any of that happens, liability (fault) has to be established first, and medical experts have to confirm not only that the injury is real, but that the injury is consistent with the initial event.

Amusingly - the no-win no-fee Claims Management Companies (they are not lawyers) exist because the insurance industry wanted them to be set up - because the insurers could then sell policyholder information to them. And they did, and made billions from it.

The lawyer actually doing the work would then pay a fee for a referral. That fee was payable even if the claim was a pile of sh*t and wasn't worth running.

Fortunately referral fees paid by or to lawyers have now been banned. But only last week the government again voted against cold calling by Claims Management Companies.

I have no idea why - unless a few MPs have shares in them somewhere.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505910258' post='3375134']
I've never needed my house insurance but I'm still going to buy it.
[/quote]

But you only know if it works if you, or someone you trust, has successfully used it. That's what the original question was. It's no use paying for 'peace of mind' if, when push comes to shove, the 'insurers' wriggle out of the claim and you're left hung out to dry. Yes, insurance is worthwhile, as long as it does actually insure. How many folks have paid for insured shipping, only to have claims turned down for whatever reason..? The proof would be if someone could show that it did, in fact, work for them. That's what was asked.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1505927958' post='3375320']
But you only know if it works if you, or someone you trust, has successfully used it. That's what the original question was. It's no use paying for 'peace of mind' if, when push comes to shove, the 'insurers' wriggle out of the claim and you're left hung out to dry. Yes, insurance is worthwhile, as long as it does actually insure. How many folks have paid for insured shipping, only to have claims turned down for whatever reason..? The proof would be if someone could show that it did, in fact, work for them. That's what was asked.
[/quote]

Fair point. Mine is part of my membership with Equity. I know others who have successfully used that.
I'm probably fortunate that I haven't needed to use it - I pay an enhanced amount because I also perform magic with pyrotechnics.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1505927958' post='3375320']


But you only know if it works if you, or someone you trust, has successfully used it. That's what the original question was. It's no use paying for 'peace of mind' if, when push comes to shove, the 'insurers' wriggle out of the claim and you're left hung out to dry. Yes, insurance is worthwhile, as long as it does actually insure. How many folks have paid for insured shipping, only to have claims turned down for whatever reason..? The proof would be if someone could show that it did, in fact, work for them. That's what was asked.
[/quote]

I found reviews from people that had used ampband and been paid out before purchasing it, you can't do much more than that.

[lowdown]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505923331' post='3375279']
The compensation amounts have to fall within a bracket - they are published in the Judicial College Guide for Personal Injury Damages. So you can't claim £25,000 for a scratch, and an insurer can't offer you £50 for losing an eye either.

Loss of earnings has to be proved with pay slips or accountancy records. Future losses are more speculative but there is a formula that is followed.

But - before any of that happens, liability (fault) has to be established first, and medical experts have to confirm not only that the injury is real, but that the injury is consistent with the initial event.

Amusingly - the no-win no-fee Claims Management Companies (they are not lawyers) exist because the insurance industry wanted them to be set up - because the insurers could then sell policyholder information to them. And they did, and made billions from it.

The lawyer actually doing the work would then pay a fee for a referral. That fee was payable even if the claim was a pile of sh*t and wasn't worth running.

Fortunately referral fees paid by or to lawyers have now been banned. But only last week the government again voted against cold calling by Claims Management Companies.

I have no idea why - unless a few MPs have shares in them somewhere.
[/quote]

As my post above, my wife was sent a letter of an intended claim in court before the IC settled on her behalf.
So in the case of my wife/Duo, it was worth having the Insurance. It all got quite complicated, because the claim was against my wife's duo. club owner and the agent.
Not sure why the agent, he had nothing to do with it, other than supply the act. The club owner was another matter, believe it or not, he had no PLI, so I am not sure what went on there (or that outcome) because the claims company decided he was liable as well, unless that was just some kind of threat in an attempt to get more money ?
[attachment=254034:jpg-to-pdf.pdf]


My PL insurance is through the MU. I don't know if it's any good because I have never needed to use it.
[url="https://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/Advice/Your-Career/Protection/Public-Liability-Insurance"]https://www.musician...ility-Insurance[/url]

[Les]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1505927958' post='3375320']
But you only know if it works if you, or someone you trust, has successfully used it. That's what the original question was. It's no use paying for 'peace of mind' if, when push comes to shove, the 'insurers' wriggle out of the claim and you're left hung out to dry. Yes, insurance is worthwhile, as long as it does actually insure. How many folks have paid for insured shipping, only to have claims turned down for whatever reason..? The proof would be if someone could show that it did, in fact, work for them. That's what was asked.
[/quote]

Thank you Dad.

[skidder652003]

So far then, we've had one example of a drunk chancer making a punt?

[fretmeister]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1505931928' post='3375347']


As my post above, my wife was sent a letter of an intended claim in court before the IC settled on her behalf.
So in the case of my wife/Duo, it was worth having the Insurance. It all got quite complicated, because the claim was against my wife's duo. club owner and the agent.
Not sure why the agent, he had nothing to do with it, other than supply the act. The club owner was another matter, believe it or not, he had no PLI, so I am not sure what went on there (or that outcome) because the claims company decided he was liable as well, unless that was just some kind of threat in an attempt to get more money ?
[attachment=254034:jpg-to-pdf.pdf]


My PL insurance is through the MU. I don't know if it's any good because I have never needed to use it.
[url="https://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/Advice/Your-Career/Protection/Public-Liability-Insurance"]https://www.musician...ility-Insurance[/url]
[/quote]

They try and get the court to confirm everyone is liable. It doesn't mean more money as that stays the same no matter how many defendants there are. But it allows collection from all or 1 - it's called jointly and severally liability. It means there is more than one wallet to extract the compensation from.

Edited September 20, 2017 by fretmeister