Small 4 ohm cab suggestions

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506095815' post='3376475']
Ok cool. Yup for sure you won't be able to tell its 300W at 4ohm, that was just for illustrative purposes.

But the 3db point is actually really helpful, thanks, and this is what I was trying to get to the bottom of. That much more "scientifically" illustrates that the benefit from swapping from an 8ohm to a 4ohm cab is going to be pretty small, which is what Chris was getting at.

That says to me, no particular need for the OP to swap his Mesa 1x12 cab 8 ohm (which I understand separately from him, he really likes) for a 4 ohm version. He could consider swapping to a well designed 2x10 4ohm (or possibly 8ohm cab) which will both displace a significantly larger volume of air and, if it's a 4ohm, also have an additional small db (3db in our example) advantage, which together would start to stack up in volume / heft terms.
[/quote]
If he likes the sound of the cab he has, it would make sense to keep the 8ohm 1x12 & then if he has gigs that need more volume, get a 2nd identical cab. This would give a bigger perceived volume increase as there's more cone mass moving more air & it wouldn't alter the sound that he has just now.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1506096423' post='3376481']
If he likes the sound of the cab he has, it would make sense to keep the 8ohm 1x12 & then if he has gigs that need more volume, get a 2nd identical cab. This would give a bigger perceived volume increase as there's more cone mass moving more air & it wouldn't alter the sound that he has just now.
[/quote]

That would normally be very sensible advice, but [i]two[/i] Mesa 1x12 Walkabout Scouts, hmmm...forklift truck time!!

I think he's got his eye on a retro sounding 2x10 by this outfit called Barefaced, apparently their stuff is not so heavy

[scrumpymike]

My 'small 4ohm cab' is 2 of the exceedingly small BF 8ohm One10s - more versatile IMHO than their 4ohm Two10. As it happens, I'm thinking about selling my SC Gen 3 and adding a third 10-incher.

[Osiris]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506095815' post='3376475'][size=4][quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1506096423' post='3376481'][/size]
If he likes the sound of the cab he has, it would make sense to keep the 8ohm 1x12 & then if he has gigs that need more volume, get a 2nd identical cab. This would give a bigger perceived volume increase as there's more cone mass moving more air & it wouldn't alter the sound that he has just now.
[/quote]

But the 3db point is actually really helpful, thanks, and this is what I was trying to get to the bottom of. That much more "scientifically" illustrates that the benefit from swapping from an 8ohm to a 4ohm cab is going to be pretty small, which is what Chris was getting at.

That says to me, no particular need for the OP to swap his Mesa 1x12 cab 8 ohm (which I understand separately from him, he really likes) for a 4 ohm version. He could consider swapping to a well designed 2x10 4ohm (or possibly 8ohm cab) which will both displace a significantly larger volume of air and, if it's a 4ohm, also have an additional small db (3db in our example) advantage, which together would start to stack up in volume / heft terms.
[/quote]

I'm quite happy with the Mesa so there's no pressing reason to change it. I was just contemplating moving it on for a 4 ohm cab on the assumption that it would be louder with the increased wattage from the amp. However, it seems my assumption is not necessarily correct and there are more factors that need to be taken into consideration. So I might just hang on to it now. Maybe....

One unexpected factor that has come out of the thread in favour of changing cabs is that of weight. I've no idea what the Mesa weighs but it's a good weight for its size, I'd guess around 15 Kg. I'm so used to lugging it about and haven't really thought about it before, but looking at the specs of the BF cabs, and getting older by the day, the appeal of something less than half the weight of the Mesa is very tempting.

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1506102487' post='3376533']
I'm quite happy with the Mesa so there's no pressing reason to change it. I was just contemplating moving it on for a 4 ohm cab on the assumption that it would be louder with the increased wattage from the amp. However, it seems my assumption is not necessarily correct and there are more factors that need to be taken into consideration. So I might just hang on to it now. Maybe....

One unexpected factor that has come out of the thread in favour of changing cabs is that of weight. I've no idea what the Mesa weighs but it's a good weight for its size, I'd guess around 15 Kg. I'm so used to lugging it about and haven't really thought about it before, but looking at the specs of the BF cabs, and getting older by the day, the appeal of something less than half the weight of the Mesa is very tempting.
[/quote]

Ahhh - I understood (wrongly) from your OP that you had two reasons for wanting to change your Mesa: to get a 4ohm cab AND because you were struggling to lift it one-handed. Anyway, I can tell you that I definitely prefer lifting 7kg instead of 15kg nowadays . Just to add also that, based on my experience, I agree that the high efficiency of speakers like the BF 12" and 10" drivers makes the 8ohm versus 4ohm debate much less of an issue with a 300w amp.

[mcnach]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506079499' post='3376292']
I don't know what environments the OP is playing in - but I'm using a 300W Tecamp Puma into a single BF One10 with a big band with over enthusiastic drummers and brass players.

I have a second One10 but I don't often have to use it. A single one is plenty loud enough.
[/quote]

It definitely varies with the band...

I can't imagine using a single One10. I have not tried one, but I can't imagine using less than a Two10, let's put it that way.

[Osiris]

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1506107592' post='3376570']
Ahhh - I understood (wrongly) from your OP that you had two reasons for wanting to change your Mesa: to get a 4ohm cab AND because you were struggling to lift it one-handed. Anyway, I can tell you that I definitely prefer lifting 7kg instead of 15kg nowadays . Just to add also that, based on my experience, I agree that the high efficiency of speakers like the BF 12" and 10" drivers makes the 8ohm versus 4ohm debate much less of an issue with a 300w amp.
[/quote]

My original reason was to get a 4 ohm cab (which looks unlikely now) but the weight factor has crept in almost as an afterthought after reading through the previous comments and looking at specs. I can still lug the Mesa about easily enough but am finding myself increasingly tempted by something lighter [size=4] [/size]

[Merton]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1506109974' post='3376587']


It definitely varies with the band...

I can't imagine using a single One10. I have not tried one, but I can't imagine using less than a Two10, let's put it that way.
[/quote]

I agree, for the gig I played last night a One10 alone wouldn't have been enough. With a Super Compact as well, however, and all was joyous and well with the world

[chris_b]

I usually gig with 2 Super Compacts and use a One10 to practice at home. IMO it sounds better at home than one of the SC's.

I haven't played a gig in the last 5 years where a One10 would have been enough on its own. Maybe I could make 2 One10's work and definitely 3 One10's could fit in with some bands I play with.

Still thinking the 310 idea through but it'll probably never fly because the 2 SC's sound so good.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1506116327' post='3376637']
My original reason was to get a 4 ohm cab (which looks unlikely now) but the weight factor has crept in almost as an afterthought after reading through the previous comments and looking at specs. I can still lug the Mesa about easily enough but am finding myself increasingly tempted by something lighter
[/quote]

If we have managed to establish, to your satisfaction, that there won't be much benefit in volume terms in switching from an 8 ohm to a 4 ohm and you're after a quality light weight cab what about the BF Super Midget? At just 23 lbs and with 600W RMS (at 8 ohm) handling capacity and a 12" speaker I think it has all your boxes ticked? It will also be more transparent / less coloured than the more retro sounding BF 2x10 and therefore closer to your beloved Tecamp 2x12 in terms of not colouring the sound from your GM amps and it should be able to handle both the GM 800 as well as your back up GM 350 with ease.

In fact, I'm starting to revisit my own previous preference for the BF BB2 over the SM, because the difference between 600W and the 800W which the BB2 can handle will, as has been helpfully pointed out earlier in this thread, be a pretty marginal increase in volume.

[machinehead]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506165112' post='3376807']
In fact, I'm starting to revisit my own previous preference for the BF BB2 over the SM, because the difference between 600W and the 800W which the BB2 can handle will, as has been helpfully pointed out earlier in this thread, be a pretty marginal increase in volume.
[/quote]

I have both a BB2 and a SM and the SM seems capable of as much volume as the BB2. The difference is that the BB2 is bigger and smoother sounding and goes lower.

I like and use both cabs individually, but,if pushed to choose one only, it would be the BB2. At least that's the case today, but if you ask me on another day...

Frank.

Edit to correct typo.

Edited September 23, 2017 by machinehead

[Osiris]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506165112' post='3376807']
If we have managed to establish, to your satisfaction, that there won't be much benefit in volume terms in switching from an 8 ohm to a 4 ohm [color=#ff0000][b]yes, I think we have[/b] [/color] [size=4]and you're after a quality light weight cab what about the BF Super Midget? [color=#ff0000][b]Great suggestion [/b][/color]At just 23 lbs and with 600W RMS (at 8 ohm) handling capacity and a 12" speaker I think it has all your boxes ticked? It will also be more transparent / less coloured than the more retro sounding BF 2x10 and therefore closer to your beloved Tecamp 2x12 in terms of not colouring the sound from your GM amps and it should be able to handle both the GM 800 as well as your back up GM 350 with ease.[/size]

[/quote]

[size=4]The shortlist at the minute seems to be either a Super Midget, Super Compact or a Retro two 10 - in no particular order. [/size]

[size=4]The only problem at the minute is money, I've got a couple of substantial non bass related purchases incoming over the next months, so any potential change of cab would have to be by way of a trade, and I doubt many people are looking to trade their helium filled Barefaced cabs for the Mesa [/size]

Edited September 23, 2017 by Osiris

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1506182351' post='3376949']
The shortlist at the minute seems to be either a Super Midget, Super Compact or a Retro two 10 - in no particular order. The only problem at the minute is money, I've got a couple of substantial non bass related purchases incoming over the next months, so any potential change of cab would have to be by way of a trade, and I doubt many people are looking to trade their helium filled Barefaced cabs for the Mesa
[/quote]

I'd agree with that. Suggest you get your Mesa Walkabout Scout listed then asap! There's one in the FS for £400 + £30 postage, which gives an idea on pricing, and if my memory serves me correctly yours is in mint condition? Hopefully someone will bite your hand off if you listed it for say £395 (or a bit less) posted? Worth a shout? And I can look forward to listening to your shiny new BF in the not too distant future and you can advise me on which of three I should be getting for myself too!

[dannybuoy]

I've been looking at these BF cabs lately as well, so tried a few out at the Gallery today and walked out having put down a deposit on a 4 ohm Retro 210. They had it in stock but I didn't fancy lugging it home on a train with all my other shopping bags, so having it sent on!

The Super Twin felt like it had too much unrestrained low end boom that would just overpower the stage sound. The mids and treble on the other hand were the opposite and felt very restrained like they wanted to stay in the box. By comparison, the Retro sounded perfect straight away. Just the right amount of bass, way brighter with growly upper mids, the notes just leapt out at me. I have a pair of Ampeg SVT210AV cabs at the moment, so the Retro was much closer to the sound I'm used to.

I'm hoping the one cab can cover most of my needs volume wise. My main amp can go to 2 ohms if I need another cab, and my backup amp is a bit underpowered so could do with 4 ohms to squeeze the most out of it!

[Al Krow]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506185030' post='3376966']
I've been looking at these BF cabs lately as well, so tried a few out at the Gallery today and walked out having put down a deposit on a 4 ohm Retro 210. They had it in stock but I didn't fancy lugging it home on a train with all my other shopping bags, so having it sent on!

The Super Twin felt like it had too much unrestrained low end boom that would just overpower the stage sound. The mids and treble on the other hand were the opposite and felt very restrained like they wanted to stay in the box. By comparison, the Retro sounded perfect straight away. Just the right amount of bass, way brighter with growly upper mids, the notes just leapt out at me. I have a pair of Ampeg SVT210AV cabs at the moment, so the Retro was much closer to the sound I'm used to.

I'm hoping the one cab can cover most of my needs volume wise. My main amp can go to 2 ohms if I need another cab, and my backup amp is a bit underpowered so could do with 4 ohms to squeeze the most out of it!
[/quote]

Excellent (and very interesting feedback, does kinda tie in with the lack of mids that a few others have commented on in the BF comparison with VK thread).

Also good to know there is a London store stocking BF cabs at last, where us big smoke dwellers can actually try them out.

Metal grille or silver cloth? Either way put me down to buy it off you in 2018, when you've decided you want to change

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1506095062' post='3376467']
Though to answer your question, it's 3db. at a really low volume, you will hear a difference, but at normal playing volumes, it's a negligible amount.
[/quote]3dB is audible, but not significant. If you add a second cab that will give you an additional 6dB, without touching a knob, and that is significant. But if you have a 4 ohm cab chances are you can't add a second cab, which the the #1 reason why you shouldn't consider a 4 ohm cab. #2 is that in the vast majority of cases the limiting factor on speaker output isn't power, it's driver excursion. If a 4 ohm and 8 ohm driver have the same excursion limit they also have the same maximum output.
FWIW loudspeaker engineers seldom consider watts at all, while volts are key.

[mcnach]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506185030' post='3376966']
I've been looking at these BF cabs lately as well, so tried a few out at the Gallery today and walked out having put down a deposit on a 4 ohm Retro 210. They had it in stock but I didn't fancy lugging it home on a train with all my other shopping bags, so having it sent on!

The Super Twin felt like it had too much unrestrained low end boom that would just overpower the stage sound. The mids and treble on the other hand were the opposite and felt very restrained like they wanted to stay in the box. By comparison, the Retro sounded perfect straight away. Just the right amount of bass, way brighter with growly upper mids, the notes just leapt out at me. I have a pair of Ampeg SVT210AV cabs at the moment, so the Retro was much closer to the sound I'm used to.

I'm hoping the one cab can cover most of my needs volume wise. My main amp can go to 2 ohms if I need another cab, and my backup amp is a bit underpowered so could do with 4 ohms to squeeze the most out of it!
[/quote]


another Two10 convert!

I felt exactly the same with the Two10, compared to my pair of BB2 I had. I now have two Two10 (4ohm each) and they're glorious.

[Cuzzie]

Congrats Dannybuoy, well done.

Still happy with my Supertwin but the 210 has been on my radar for a while....

[Osiris]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506185030' post='3376966']
I've been looking at these BF cabs lately as well, so tried a few out at the Gallery today and walked out having put down a deposit on a 4 ohm Retro 210.
[/quote]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it once it arrives

Edited September 24, 2017 by Osiris

[dannybuoy]

It'll be a couple of weeks until I get to test it out at rehearsal/gigging volume...

[alexclaber]

Danny, I'm sure you'll love the Two10 (it isn't called the Retro anymore! ) If you're used to the 210AV cabs then I'm almost surprised you didn't find the Two10 had too much bottom end - we had one on loan for a while and I've never played through a bass cab with so little happening below 100Hz - in many ways it felt like playing through a guitar amp. I was so shocked I even measured it to make sure I wasn't mishearing!

The Gallery is a great shop but your experience of testing the Super Twin confirms why I'm not a fan of testing amps and cabs in shops - it's just such a weird acoustic environment for all but the smallest rigs. I don't think we've ever heard feedback like that from bassists gigging the Super Twin - and as we sell almost everything direct we hear back from the majority of our Barefaced users, good and bad (the former vastly outweighs the latter but the latter is more informative so we like that!)

[Steve Browning]

Keep the Boogie!!!! Don't forget about the passive radiator and what that adds.

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1506342900' post='3378035']
Danny, I'm sure you'll love the Two10 (it isn't called the Retro anymore! ) If you're used to the 210AV cabs then I'm almost surprised you didn't find the Two10 had too much bottom end - we had one on loan for a while and I've never played through a bass cab with so little happening below 100Hz - in many ways it felt like playing through a guitar amp. I was so shocked I even measured it to make sure I wasn't mishearing!

The Gallery is a great shop but your experience of testing the Super Twin confirms why I'm not a fan of testing amps and cabs in shops - it's just such a weird acoustic environment for all but the smallest rigs. I don't think we've ever heard feedback like that from bassists gigging the Super Twin - and as we sell almost everything direct we hear back from the majority of our Barefaced users, good and bad (the former vastly outweighs the latter but the latter is more informative so we like that!)
[/quote]

Yeah, the 210AVs are light on the lows which is one of the reasons for seeking an upgrade! Plenty enough thump in what I perceive as the 80Hz-100Hz region when you EQ to compensate though, and I've always felt that lower than that just creaes too much boom and rumble. The Two10 sounded perfectly balanced to me in terms of lows and highs - but of course I realise that doesn't necessarily mean flat, and I was not testing at gig volume, nor at a distance from the cab, which are all factors.

Looking forward to giving it a good outing at a rehearsal in a couple of weeks and my first gig with the band at the end of October!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Steve Browning' timestamp='1506344414' post='3378048']
Keep the Boogie!!!! Don't forget about the passive radiator and what that adds.
[/quote]It adds the same thing that a port does.

[dmccombe7]

Not sure i've picked up your reasons for changing but is the weight of the Mesa too heavy.
You mention you are looking for a 1x12 one handed lift at 300W.
I wouldn't have thought a 1x12 that heavy but i'm used to larger cabs.

I've used the Berg AE112 cabs which are NEO speakers. Very lightweight and nice tone.
I've also got the Markbass rig which is lightweight but i only use it on occassions where there are a lot of stairs to climb or long distances from car.

The only thing i would say and its down to personal taste is that the lightweight speakers don't seem to have the same depth of tone for me. Its difficult to pinpoint exactly why that is and i've tried them with various different amps. They just seem to lack something. Maybe its down to them being too clean in comparison to my heavier cabs. Dialling the tweeter or horns down altogether does help tho.
Its never been an issue out front and audience always seem to like the Markbass tone so maybe its just where i stand on stage that i don't hear.
Think you should def try before you buy tho.

Dave