New Darkglass Products.....

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1506669096' post='3380228']
Mind you, they still sell plenty of the pedals, so I hope they sell the cabs too! Always good to support the little people and help local businesses.
[/quote]

I don't think they are so small now!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506635594' post='3380151']
[b]Over priced, over hyped and last year's sound.[/b] Pointless speakers? Well actually once the short lived buzz about the transient metal sound has fizzled out, IMHO [b]A pointless product range[/b]. There I've said it...
[/quote]

I hate to be a typical cynical Brit, but I agree. I happily buy expensive products, such as Apple, but something about the DG pricing structure just puts me off. I also really DO NOT like the current trend of extremely distorted bass that people play like a guitar. Djent or whatever the genre is just rubs me up the wrong way. It sounds tacky. I love hearing new types of music but I cannot get into it whatsoever, and I am a big fan of heavier and faster aggressive music.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Musicman20

[fretmeister]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506635594' post='3380151']
+1000!!



[b]Over priced, over hyped and last year's sound.[/b] Pointless speakers? Well actually once the short lived buzz about the transient metal sound has fizzled out, IMHO [b]A pointless product range[/b]. There I've said it...
[/quote]

Over priced - these days I'm afraid I have to agree.

Over hyped - not convinced, but even if that is true that is from the customers not the company. Just like Klons and the like.

Last Year's sound - Not a clue! In the last 2 or 3 years I've only bought a couple of albums that were recorded after 1980! But looking at comparisons - the TS boosted Dual Rectifier was "last year's sound" for a solid 10 years! And it's still here.

Pointless Product Range. Cannot agree there at all. I get they might be pointless to you and to anyone else who doesn't like the sound, but that doesn't mean it is generally pointless. Ukulele's are pointless to me!

The pedals did something new both in terms of sound and blending options. That is innovation. The amp (M900) is excellent and despite the assumed use for metal, it does a fantastic B15 sound and is very versatile. I use mine doing Big Band work with the drive circuit on low.

Even the preamp pedals are superb for recording with or doing direct even with just clean sounds. I cannot agree that a DI capable preamp is pointless. I would go as far as saying that every gigging bassist should have one - not a Darkglass model specifically, but at least something of that ilk. Once we establish that the product type has a point, then individual makes' features are merely choice and have nothing to do with "pointlessness"

The cabs - yes. Unnecessary and over priced, and by the specs very heavy too. I really don't know what Doug was thinking with them on the spec alone. When the frankly astonishing price is taken into account the really do look like taking the piss.

I realise that at the mo UK buyers are getting shafted by exchange rate issues and that it will get worse because of the thing that cannot be named, but even so the prices are now reaching a risky point - the point when shops stop stocking product. Just like Jim Bergantino said when he popped up in the other thread. And with Bass Direct who are no longer bringing in Mike Lull basses.

But even so - the cabs! Honestly. WTF happened there? Twice as expensive as Barefaced and twice the weight? And the only "unique" selling point is a new cross-over that is supposedly more friendly to bass distortion?

The cabs are the point DG jumped the shark / nuked the fridge / whatever the new description is.

I like Doug. He seems a nice bloke and he's clearly a very talented engineer. But all that bollocks about bassists not thinking about how important cabs are in the signal chain gives absolute damning proof that his marketing guys should be staked out, smeared with BBQ sauce and left for the wolves.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506676269' post='3380300']
I like Doug. He seems a nice bloke and he's clearly a very talented engineer. But all that bollocks about bassists not thinking about how important cabs are in the signal chain gives absolute damning proof that his marketing guys should be staked out, smeared with BBQ sauce and left for the wolves.
[/quote]

HAHAHAHAH

[eude]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506676269' post='3380300']
But all that bollocks about bassists not thinking about how important cabs are in the signal chain gives absolute damning proof that his marketing guys should be staked out, smeared with BBQ sauce and left for the wolves.
[/quote]

Can we please just do that with all Marketeers?
I think we need hard reset.

Eude

[CameronJ]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506676269' post='3380300']
But all that bollocks about bassists not thinking about how important cabs are in the signal chain gives absolute damning proof that his marketing guys should be staked out, smeared with BBQ sauce and left for the wolves.
[/quote]

A big fat +1 from me.

[xgsjx]

There's nowhere about how loud the cabs are either. Not even any SPL figures.

[dannybuoy]

I gotta disagree about the "yesterday's sound" thing too. Just because the pedal/pre is capable of full on distortion doesn't mean you have to use it that way - I for one use the B3K mode on the amp set to minimum gain, where it sounds clean unless I dig in. The baked in EQ curve of this mode has a mid scoop that's in just the right place so that it slots into a busy mix perfectly with distorted guitars, and unlike a lot of drive circuits they only distort the midrange, leaving the bottom end clear and uncompressed. They produce a great sound for direct recording, even without a cab sim.

But those prices are getting out of control!

Edited September 29, 2017 by dannybuoy

[Kev]

Judging by the reaction by some in this thread, you would think Darkglass was a subsidiary of Barefaced...

In current market, I don't believe any Darkglass product is 'overpriced' and comments about how much it cost to develop are just daft, simple truth we have NO idea.

The head is a brilliant price for what it is and has remained remarkably stable considering Brexit and the GBP situation, something had to give eventually and their way of dealing with it is to release a cheaper version, which is fair enough. Again, cab prices are in line with other 'boutique' builders and until stats are released and they are heard, how can anyone judge whether they are worth Berg prices or not?

We do love to hate on success, don't we?

[Bigwan]

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1506686482' post='3380416']
Judging by the reaction by some in this thread, you would think Darkglass was a subsidiary of Barefaced...

In current market, I don't believe any Darkglass product is 'overpriced' and comments about how much it cost to develop are just daft, simple truth we have NO idea.

The head is a brilliant price for what it is and has remained remarkably stable considering Brexit and the GBP situation, something had to give eventually and their way of dealing with it is to release a cheaper version, which is fair enough. Again, cab prices are in line with other 'boutique' builders and until stats are released and they are heard, how can anyone judge whether they are worth Berg prices or not?

We do love to hate on success, don't we?
[/quote]

I don't hate success at all, but I hate indefensible, emperor's new clothes marketing BS, which really is what the big hoopla release party at Chicago Music Exchange was. IMHO. The cabs had already been seen at NAMM ffs. The only new product was the amp, and nobody seems to be talking much about it at least not to the same extent as the cabs...

Amp-wise (looking at Thomann as a quick example) Ampeg, EBS, Markbass, Ashdown, Hartke, GK, Tech 21, Fender, TC and Warwick can all do a 500w bass head in the £500 region, some [u][i][b]significantly[/b][/i][/u] below. What makes the M500 so special that I should buy it at a premium? While I liked the M900 I had quite a lot (and the Vintage Ultra I'e just sold), there's no doubt that in the value for money stakes Darkglass are in danger of disappearing up their own bottoms.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Bigwan

[Osiris]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506676269' post='3380300']

The amp (M900) is excellent and despite the assumed use for metal, it does a fantastic B15 sound and is very versatile. I use mine doing Big Band work with the drive circuit on low.

[/quote]

Yep, I totally agree with that, the clean channel on the Microtubes 900 is incredibly versatile. The switchable frequencies on the two mid controls are absolutely spot on for real world use. It is one of the best bass pre-amps out there in my opinion. However, I do think that this aspect of the amp is overlooked due to DG's reputation for only catering for the modern metal crowd. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/303884-amp-test-drive%3B-aguilar-darkglass-genzler-and-mesa-boogie/page__fromsearch__1"]More of my thoughts on it here[/url].

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1506687602' post='3380430']
Amp-wise (looking at Thomann as a quick example) Ampeg, EBS, Markbass, Ashdown, Hartke, GK, Tech 21, Fender, TC and Warwick can all do a 500w bass head in the £500 region, some [u][i][b]significantly[/b][/i][/u] below. What makes the M500 so special that I should buy it at a premium? While I liked the M900 I had quite a lot (and the Vintage Ultra I'e just sold), there's no doubt that in the value for money stakes Darkglass are in danger of disappearing up their own bottoms.
[/quote]

Quite, but I find all this vitriol rather odd when there are no similar threads ripping into Aguilar, Mesa, Glockenklang, Vanderkley etc, whose amps cost even more?

[Bigwan]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506690766' post='3380460']
Quite, but I find all this vitriol rather odd when there are no similar threads ripping into Aguilar, Mesa, Glockenklang, Vanderkley etc, whose amps cost even more?
[/quote]

True, not sure what it is about the whole DG PR machine that gets me so annoyed...

[fretmeister]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506690766' post='3380460']
Quite, but I find all this vitriol rather odd when there are no similar threads ripping into Aguilar, Mesa, Glockenklang, Vanderkley etc, whose amps cost even more?
[/quote]

I've ripped into Mesa loads of times. Mainly because of Westside Distribution being price gouging twats.

[dannybuoy]

Over the pond the Subway D800 is reasonably priced, but over a grand here.

[fretmeister]

I had a 4:88.

It was lovely, but no way worth the almost 2K UK price.

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506690766' post='3380460']


Quite, but I find all this vitriol rather odd when there are no similar threads ripping into Aguilar, Mesa, Glockenklang, Vanderkley etc, whose amps cost even more?
[/quote]

Very true, but I'm sure someone will start one! For my own part, I've got no experience of the amp cost for those manufacturers, but the cab cost is a fair whack. In the case of Mesa I always thought it was Westside Distribution screwing us. Aguilar always seemed a bit rich for what they seemed to be, but I couldn't comment on the others.

I suppose the thing to think is, most 4x10s these days are about 25-28kg. Most are less than the Darkglass. Would anyone really pay so much for a cab that weighs as much as an Ashdown 4x10 did 10 years ago? The current drivers for people are portability with the "one trip from the car" being the commonly used phrase.

With the Darkglass cabs there will unfortunately be 2 trips from the car. The first to the chiropractor and the second to court for your bankruptcy hearing.

I can't understand why they've went heavy and expensive. It's just mental.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506690766' post='3380460']
Quite, but I find all this vitriol rather odd when there are no similar threads ripping into Aguilar, Mesa, Glockenklang, Vanderkley etc, whose amps cost even more?
[/quote]

So are we all agreed that Markbass are still delivering a generally well regarded sound in both their amps and cabs which are quality products, to boot? And they manage to do so at a fair price point, with a widely recognised brand-name and whose second hand prices on their entire product range aren't currently falling [color=#808080][b]dark[/b][/color]ly through a [color=#808080][b]glass[/b][/color] floor then? For 30% less than a ridiculously over priced, over weight, "pointless" DG 4x10 (to quote Bill Fitzmaurice who, come-on guys, knows one or two things about cabs, right?) you can still pick up one of the [url="http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/combo-121-lite-strong-alain-caron-strong/"]finest gigging combos in the world[/url]

[HazBeen]

You forget the Markbasss is FUGLY as hell Al...

Being based in Europe (Euro country) and having tried just about every drive pedal in this world personally I think Darkglass makes some great sounding, incredibly well built equipment. I love my M900 (and I generally hate D class amps), I love my Alpha Omega (which has replaced a B7K) and I love my Duality Fuzz. I use them all the time and hold their value quite favourably too if I would sell.

The cabs I am not overly sure of, nothing special that's for sure, but I am not so sure what the issue is.... Apple does it, BMW/AUDI/VOLVO etc etc do it, i.e. selling stuff for more just because they can. Succesful branding = tapping into buyers emotions, if the emotion is good enough products sell.

And what DG does really is not exceptionally naughty, if I was Doug I would do the same.

[LewisK1975]

Admittedly I haven't been through all of the responses on here, but on the recent thread discussing the new iPhone and it's relative cost, I made the point that non-musicians get GAS too, for the latest iPhone / TV / Games Console etc.

Basically I was saying that Apple releasing a new iPhone and the so-called 'sheep' queueing around the block for it were no different than Bass players who have a favourite brand 'queueing around the block' for the latest offering from Fender / Darkglass / Insert your favourite manufacturer here'.

There were various responses saying how you can't compare Basses / Amps to iPhones, and I was essentially shot down in flames. Fine, it's an open forum and I'm perfectly willing & happy to listen to others points of view.

So here we now have a thread where Bass players are justifying the cost of the new Darkglass cabs by comparing them to how Apple (amongst others) market and sell their products.

You couldn't make it up!

[Musicman20]

I would say a good comparison, pedal wise, perhaps so not high gain, would be the Tech 21 gear. Quite a lot cheaper.

I've had a pop at Aguilar as the prices went exceptionally high. Something like £700 for ONE 1x12 DB112! I paid £600 new for a DB212! Those prices are before and after middleman distributors.

If these new DG cabs are made here, why on earth are they incredibly expensive? The Aguilar SL410 is crazy money but it is light and it's imported from the USA.

At these prices, BERGANTINO every time.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1506698098' post='3380526']
Admittedly I haven't been through all of the responses on here, but on the recent thread discussing the new iPhone and it's relative cost, I made the point that non-musicians get GAS too, for the latest iPhone / TV / Games Console etc.

Basically I was saying that Apple releasing a new iPhone and the so-called 'sheep' queueing around the block for it were no different than Bass players who have a favourite brand 'queueing around the block' for the latest offering from Fender / Darkglass / Insert your favourite manufacturer here'.

There were various responses saying how you can't compare Basses / Amps to iPhones, and I was essentially shot down in flames. Fine, it's an open forum and I'm perfectly willing & happy to listen to others points of view.

So here we now have a thread where Bass players are justifying the cost of the new Darkglass cabs by comparing them to how Apple (amongst others) market and sell their products.

You couldn't make it up!
[/quote]

I certainly wouldn't shoot you down... I think it's exactly the way Darkglass market stuff. Sure amps, cabs and pedals aren't exactly lifestyle products (no really!), but they big up all the aesthetic qualities of the product and most reviews mention how good they look. Can't deny they're great looking products, but again you're paying through the nose so they'd better be.

[M@23]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506695285' post='3380504']


So are we all agreed that Markbass are still delivering a generally well regarded sound in both their amps and cabs which are quality products, to boot? And they manage to do so at a fair price point, with a widely recognised brand-name and whose second hand prices on their entire product range aren't currently falling [color=#808080][b]dark[/b][/color]ly through a [color=#808080][b]glass[/b][/color] floor then? For 30% less than a ridiculously over priced, over weight, "pointless" DG 4x10 (to quote Bill Fitzmaurice who, come-on guys, knows one or two things about cabs, right?) you can still pick up one of the [url="http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/combo-121-lite-strong-alain-caron-strong/"]finest gigging combos in the world[/url]
[/quote]

That's one reason I went back to Markbass, Al. It's not boutique stuff, but doesn't embarrass itself in any company. It just works for the stuff I do, my whole 600 watt rig weighs 21kg and it was all a good few hundred quid cheaper than the old rig went for 2nd hand.
Of course, the great thing with the boutique stuff is, any issues and you can get top support, usually from the main guy, very quickly.

[HazBeen]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1506702718' post='3380568']


I certainly wouldn't shoot you down... I think it's exactly the way Darkglass market stuff. Sure amps, cabs and pedals aren't exactly lifestyle products (no really!), but they big up all the aesthetic qualities of the product and most reviews mention how good they look. Can't deny they're great looking products, but again you're paying through the nose so they'd better be.
[/quote]

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1506698098' post='3380526']
Admittedly I haven't been through all of the responses on here, but on the recent thread discussing the new iPhone and it's relative cost, I made the point that non-musicians get GAS too, for the latest iPhone / TV / Games Console etc.

Basically I was saying that Apple releasing a new iPhone and the so-called 'sheep' queueing around the block for it were no different than Bass players who have a favourite brand 'queueing around the block' for the latest offering from Fender / Darkglass / Insert your favourite manufacturer here'.

There were various responses saying how you can't compare Basses / Amps to iPhones, and I was essentially shot down in flames. Fine, it's an open forum and I'm perfectly willing & happy to listen to others points of view.

So here we now have a thread where Bass players are justifying the cost of the new Darkglass cabs by comparing them to how Apple (amongst others) market and sell their products.

You couldn't make it up!
[/quote]

I think the Apple comparison was totally justified and it is more than coincidence the M900 looks like an iPhone (well sort of). But there is no denying that iPhones and an M900 are really good products, form can never overcome major flaws in function.

And on the other hand a great product can look like a dog's backside and still build a good reputation (Markbass for instance).

Bottom line: if you don't like DG don't buy their stuff and of you do accept you are buying an iPhone esque product. No need for overly strong rhetoric either way you'd think.

[HazBeen]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1506698465' post='3380527']
I would say a good comparison, pedal wise, perhaps so not high gain, would be the Tech 21 gear. Quite a lot cheaper.

I've had a pop at Aguilar as the prices went exceptionally high. Something like £700 for ONE 1x12 DB112! I paid £600 new for a DB212! Those prices are before and after middleman distributors.

If these new DG cabs are made here, why on earth are they incredibly expensive? The Aguilar SL410 is crazy money but it is light and it's imported from the USA.

At these prices, BERGANTINO every time.
[/quote]

Bergantino, great gear.