New Darkglass Products.....

[Cuzzie]

I’ve owned an M900, B7K,VMT and an SS, all good, not for me, I didn’t mind the second hand price point.
I think they are of a decent quality, but the sound was not for me.

The key in this is the price point.

The 500w amp is £50 less than the 900w amp new, albeit with a better functioning DI and a headphone jack (no aux input).
Looking at Apple whatever the price start point each incremental jump in price significantly changes the screen size or memory capacity, but the base model is a few hundred below the top model.
Would you expect to pay roughly the same price for a 1 litre car compared to a 2litre turbocharged vehicle?

I think there needs to be a differential between products and not just re-hiking the M900 price back up again.

Regarding cabinet price, we may all eat our hats and it may completely blow everything out the water at the same price range, if it does, it is worth the cost, but where it has set itself it almost has to.
I may be wrong, I am not a commercial success at anything, but more than anything I think the ire generated is about these things like or loathe the sound

[fretmeister]

The M900 prices have gone up already.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506707614' post='3380613']
The M900 prices have gone up already.
[/quote]

16%... Still not sure there's enough of a differential...

[xgsjx]

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1506698098' post='3380526']
Admittedly I haven't been through all of the responses on here, but on the recent thread discussing the new iPhone and it's relative cost, I made the point that non-musicians get GAS too, for the latest iPhone / TV / Games Console etc.

Basically I was saying that Apple releasing a new iPhone and the so-called 'sheep' queueing around the block for it were no different than Bass players who have a favourite brand 'queueing around the block' for the latest offering from Fender / Darkglass / Insert your favourite manufacturer here'.

There were various responses saying how you can't compare Basses / Amps to iPhones, and I was essentially shot down in flames. Fine, it's an open forum and I'm perfectly willing & happy to listen to others points of view.

So here we now have a thread where Bass players are justifying the cost of the new Darkglass cabs by comparing them to how Apple (amongst others) market and sell their products.

You couldn't make it up!
[/quote]
If Apple released a product that was overpriced & poor spec'd, then it would be a good comparison. The iPhone X is expensive, but they've put a lot of features into it & released as a 10th anniversary item. I'm not gonna spend over £1k on a phone.

Unless this 4x10 sounds incredible compared to other top end cabs & has some good driver filtering, then I think it may just be well overpriced for an overweight 4x10.
It'll probably sell to the folk whom think "It's expensive, so it must be good".

[Bigwan]

Interestingly the M500 is almost the same price as the Aguilar TH500...

[HazBeen]

Just don't buy..... problem solved.

[bjelkeman]

It is quite funny with so much negativity. Calling Darkglass products snake oil.

These products are hand built in Helsinki (not the cabs), not in a sweatshop in Nanjing. Doug puts in a ton of effort to create products that some love and others don't.

Maybe they are not for you, but Darkglass products are really liked by a lot of people. I really get why they aren't for everybody, but the amount of complaining makes me think some people are jealous they can't buy them or something.

[mcnach]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1507044858' post='3382996']
I really get why they aren't for everybody, but the amount of complaining makes me think some people are jealous they can't buy them or something.
[/quote]

really?

[Bigwan]

Yeah... I've owned the vmt, b3k (3 times), b7k, vintage ultra and M900... I don't own any of them any more.

While I really don't care for the b*k models, I like the vintage line and the amp (I'm tempted by the amp again!), but the pricing is getting totally ridiculous.

The way some people constantly jump to complain about the complainers you'd think... Oh never mind...

[Cuzzie]

Nah its not moaning, it’s realistic.

Price point aside, you release 1 amp, it drops in price new in the first year, you then release a second amp with less juice at the same price practically as the original and hike the price of the old amp back up?

That’s a bit naughty

[Musicman20]

Anyone who thinks the current pricing is normal is a victim of marketing!

Edited October 4, 2017 by Musicman20

[CameronJ]

The complaints aren't coming from a place of wild jealous bitterness - they're coming from the reality that the prices of these cabs, when compared to some of the fantastic innovative products other manufacturers are producing, are objectively comedic. Whether someone can afford the, or not isn't the point. There are plenty of people on this forum who could afford them but would rather spend their cash elsewhere knowing they're getting far better value for money.

It's a basic 2x10 and a basic 4x10. Sure they look pretty but as far as I can see, that's about all there is to separate them from the (very) stiff competition. If there was anything technologically groundbreaking or even, at least, technologically COMPETITIVE about them Darkglass would be shouting it from the rooftops as a big selling point and we'd all be rushing to our nearest dealer wallets in hand. All they mention is a passive, fixed crossover. Apparently it sounds good with their distortion pedals.

Here's an analogy:
Mercedes, Jaguar and Lexus all have a solid reputation for making well made, high performance cars. Imagine Garmin, who are known for making quality GPS navigation systems and have a large user base, decided they were going to release a car of their own under their own brand and outsource the production to a third party (let's say Ford). Imagine Garmin's debut car has a gorgeous paint job and body shape comparable to a high performance luxury car but with the same chassis and engine as a Ford Mondeo. It's perfectly reliable, it performs to a decent standard and is more than capable of getting you from A to B. It may even be fun to drive. Garmin claims it's been specifically designed to work well with their GPS systems. Now imagine Garmin decide to price their untested and on paper quite ordinary debut car at the same point or higher than Mercedes, Jaguar and Lexus have priced their top of the range models.

In this scenario money is no object for you. Do you buy Garmin's car simply because you can afford it? Do you claim that others who argue the greater value in similarly priced luxury vehicles from tried and tested manufacturers are unreasonable?

Somehow I suspect in this analogy Garmin would quickly become the laughing stock of the automotive industry.

[Cuzzie]

Cameron

I rather like that analogy, nicely put.

He has taken the time to eloquently put down a lot of feelings, which are justified and done it better than I did.

The amp we know and we can comment on.
The AO pedal, do a big one and then do a small one just after everyone has bought a big one..........hmmmm
The speakers, everyone has said that they would eat humble pie IF it blows similarly specd cabs out the park.

We all recognise there is a business behind things and no one is wishing DG falls flat on its face, but there is legitimacy behind what we say as consumers, because of there is a slow incremental hike across the board then we are the ones getting hammered

[Al Krow]

@bjelkeman [i] "the amount of complaining makes me think some people are jealous they can't buy them".[/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]That is just VERY patronising to your fellow bass players who have different views to you. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]No one is saying that "value for money" = "cheap" are they?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There is a big difference between "can't buy" and refusing to throw hard earned cash away on something that is [i]clearly[/i] overpriced.[/font][/color]

Edited October 4, 2017 by Al Krow

[xgsjx]

He might know his pedals & they do come in at a similar price as other preamp pedals and they do get respect from many bassists. But from watching a Youtube vid from NAMM 16, I'd say he doesn't know much about cabs or actual power amps.
He has a MT 700 amp plugged in to a 4Ω 2x10 & says "Now you're going to hear 700 watts with a 210".
When asked about them being ceramic drivers he also says "They sound nasty & nice, they sound heavy... We'll worry about the lightweight stuff later on".

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1507098928' post='3383238'][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There is a big difference between "can't buy" and refusing to throw hard earned cash away on something that is [i]clearly[/i] overpriced.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

+1

[fretmeister]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1507044858' post='3382996']
It is quite funny with so much negativity. Calling Darkglass products snake oil.

These products are hand built in Helsinki (not the cabs), not in a sweatshop in Nanjing. Doug puts in a ton of effort to create products that some love and others don't.

Maybe they are not for you, but Darkglass products are really liked by a lot of people. I really get why they aren't for everybody, but the amount of complaining makes me think some people are jealous they can't buy them or something.
[/quote]

Patronising bollocks.

Irrespective of the amount of funds a person has products are either good value for the money or they are not. My position is that the cabs are not value for money in the slightest. The weight alone will stop many sales even if they sound twice as good as other products.

The Gear Porn section alone tells you that many people on here will spend silly money on things they consider to have good value for money.

[Painy]

Personally I think I'll just pick up a couple of heavy old 80s Peavey cabs and re-cover them in carbon fibre effect tolex to achieve the same effect.
Should be able to get a nice pair of 410s they way for a couple of hundred quid with change.

[Cuzzie]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1507139960' post='3383591']
Personally I think I'll just pick up a couple of heavy old 80s Peavey cabs and re-cover them in carbon fibre effect tolex to achieve the same effect.
Should be able to get a nice pair of 410s they way for a couple of hundred quid with change.
[/quote]

Dont forget a spray can for the space age grill effect and some glitter, and then fairy dust for the crossover circuit

Edited October 4, 2017 by Cuzzie

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1507146042' post='3383628']
Dont forget a spray can for the space age grill effect and some glitter, and then fairy dust for the crossover circuit
[/quote]

Yes, but for a true DG product don't you also need to add copious amounts of snake oil? Or at least that's what I understood from my youngers and betters above?!

[phatbass787]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1507148873' post='3383661']
Yes, but for a true DG product don't you also need to add copious amounts of snake oil? Or at least that's what I understood from my youngers and betters above?!
[/quote]

Lol, bottles and bottles of it I would say

[thodrik]

I find £900 for a 2x10 to be way too expensive. I suppose that they are competing with Mesa and EBS for the 'big, expensive, heavy duty touring cabs' market. I'm not fussed on the looks but I'm sure that they are great cabs.

I do love my Duality fuzz. Not so fussed with the B3K I've had the last year or so, a bit 'generic modern metal' sounding to me. I prefer my barely working Aguilar Agro.

[dannybuoy]

I wasn't so enamoured with the B3K / B7K at first either, until I tried one at minimum gain in the mix. This way it only gives a noticeable growl when you dig in, and the baked in EQ curve is just perfect to provide a nice tight bass boost without excessive boom, leave plenty of space for the frequencies of distorted guitars, yet still cut through with those aggressive high mids. Now I'm a convert!

In still wouldn't pay that much for their cabs though, even though they are buy far the best looking cabs l have ever seen looks-wise!

[bjelkeman]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1507096698' post='3383233']
The AO pedal, do a big one and then do a small one just after everyone has bought a big one..........hmmmm
The speakers, everyone has said that they would eat humble pie IF it blows similarly specd cabs out the park.

We all recognise there is a business behind things and no one is wishing DG falls flat on its face, but there is legitimacy behind what we say as consumers, because of there is a slow incremental hike across the board then we are the ones getting hammered
[/quote]

Doug said that if the AO was successful, he would consider designing a smaller version. He didn't know if it was going to sell, so he made the choice of designing the bigger version first. Did he do that to rip everyone who bought one off? I don't think so. It may have been only moderately successful, then it would make sense to release the more flexible pedal first. I think it was a sensible business decision.

Regarding price changes. The pound has dropped against the Euro from 1.4 in 2015 to 1.12 now. That is quite a difference. It would be surprising if an imported product from a Euro based manufacturer didn't change accordingly. I don't think it is about gouging people.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1507240101' post='3384246']
Regarding price changes. The pound has dropped against the Euro from 1.4 in 2015 to 1.12 now. That is quite a difference. It would be surprising if an imported product from a Euro based manufacturer didn't change accordingly. I don't think it is about gouging people.
[/quote]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506502887' post='3379137']
Don't know - rumours were of a UK builder.
[/quote]

Hey - I thought the whole issue was that these are being made in the UK under sub contract? If that's correct, then Euro: £ exchange rate becomes much less of a thing.