New Darkglass Products.....

[JapanAxe]

Has anyone on here had a chance to try one of these DG cabs? Or compare them with others? They might be truly phenomenal...

[bjelkeman]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1507240408' post='3384248']


Hey - I thought the whole issue was that these are being made in the UK under sub contract? If that's correct, then Euro: £ exchange rate becomes much less of a thing.
[/quote]

True. I was more referring to the pricing of the rest of the DG gear. I thought someone mentioned the amp went up in price.

[bjelkeman]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1507241081' post='3384251']
Has anyone on here had a chance to try one of these DG cabs? Or compare them with others? They might be truly phenomenal...
[/quote]

The distributor in Sweden says 1-4 week delivery. Don't think they have any in stock yet. May need to arrange a bass meetup when they arrive to let us do some comparisons.

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1507240101' post='3384246']
I don't think it is about gouging people.
[/quote]

Sooooo, £90 for an amp bag isn't "gouging people?" Really?!! Admittedly, you'd have to be bonkers to actually pay that, but the point remains. That's robbery. The cabs are robbery as well. They offer no particular value and don't seem to be able to be lifted except by a crane. No samples, just marketing blurb and people are lapping it up like it's the word of God.

I played the cabs at the London Bass Guitar Show. You couldn't evaluate them properly. I couldn't tell if it was the pedals I was playing through or the amp as to what (if any) colouration was going on except when they switched to a clean amp sound which sounded rubbish (very sponge like) because the EQ had been set for the full on distortion. Unless you played them with a known system you're never going to know what they're like. With so much dirt, you couldn't tell at all. The fact still remains that they're immensely heavy and ludicrously expensive.

[bjelkeman]

The 410 seems priced like an EBS Neo 410.

I think they are too heavy too, which is why I have TKS cabs.

[Cuzzie]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1507241314' post='3384255']


True. I was more referring to the pricing of the rest of the DG gear. I thought someone mentioned the amp went up in price.
[/quote]

The price hike was on Andertons.

Before the release of M500 the M900 was £795 (release price about £900)

The minute M500 is released at £725, the M900 goes back up again to about £900.

That alone is a bit naughty.

The sterling/euro/dollar thing annoys me, it’s probably not their fault though, but placing the it same price in Dollars as Sterling does adversely affect us.
It’s a little more sour if it is true (and Doug said this on a video on his feed on instagram) that the Cab is made in the UK.

The most expensive place to buy the cab, is the country it is made in......

Anyways, I think we will politely disagree on the value for money on these, and as everyone says a product is only worth what you are prepared to spend on it, I may give it a go when it’s half price second or third hand.....

[fretmeister]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1507243468' post='3384269']
Sooooo, £90 for an amp bag isn't "gouging people?" Really?!! Admittedly, you'd have to be bonkers to actually pay that, but the point remains. That's robbery. The cabs are robbery as well. They offer no particular value and don't seem to be able to be lifted except by a crane. No samples, just marketing blurb and people are lapping it up like it's the word of God.


[/quote]

This is far too harsh.

It is entirely possible that the profit margin is tiny. Expensive does not equal robbery.

The bag and the cabs are very expensive to the point where I do not see sufficient value for money to consider buying them. But until you can say what the product and shipping overheads are you cannot call it robbery or price gouging.
A bag for an amp is a low selling item. Heavy bass cabs are, in the lightweight world, a low selling item. Production expenses must be recouped. That is not robbery.

That does not mean the value for money is good, or even that the product itself is a good concept to bring to market. But unless the total cost of producing a single unit is known you can't call it robbery / gouging etc.

[Musicman20]

I think half the issue is that with so much distortion in 3/4 of their demos, it basically becomes a generic 'DG tone' which is fine if you like it (and they certainly ARE good at their signature style of distortion if you like it) but all the basses I've heard through that tone lose character (as is the same with a lot of distortion) and if your guitars are also super high gain, what exactly are you hearing?

IMO/IME, a touch of dirt is great for certain bands, clean is decent with super high gain/heavy guitars, and a full on dirty bass tone is better with a band where the bass takes a more prominent role. Muse...for example. Death From Above 1979.

[Cuzzie]

Oh i dunno either way, but recently i got an amp with a Gator carry case thrown in (think it is about the same quality but less expensive if buying alone) and 2 power cables, Canare guitar lead, couple of T shirts for no more than the actual amp price...........

[Cuzzie]

I agree with Musicman20, they are definitely missing a big big trick with their stuff, the clean amp is rather good, and a good EQ, but we never hear it.
I really liked the clean EQ, but too many nobbles for me to tinker, and i wasn't using the distortion which to my ears still does not quite sit together with the clean sound, there is a slight separation rather than a pure parallel.

Anyway, they rally need to advertise the clean more, or it may have made more sense to bring out just a clean version of the amp with no distortion circuit, then you don't need the pedal they don't provide with the amp.........

Edited October 6, 2017 by Cuzzie

[CameronJ]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1507282570' post='3384436']
This is far too harsh.

It is entirely possible that the profit margin is tiny. Expensive does not equal robbery.

The bag and the cabs are very expensive to the point where I do not see sufficient value for money to consider buying them. But until you can say what the product and shipping overheads are you cannot call it robbery or price gouging.
A bag for an amp is a low selling item. Heavy bass cabs are, in the lightweight world, a low selling item. Production expenses must be recouped. That is not robbery.

That does not mean the value for money is good, or even that the product itself is a good concept to bring to market. But unless the total cost of producing a single unit is known you can't call it robbery / gouging etc.
[/quote]

If it isn't intentional robbery then at the very least it shows a severe lack of market awareness. In fairness, a few brands are guilty of this to some degree. Here are the prices for various brands of amp bag on Bass Direct's website...

Aguilar TH500 bag - £45 (+£5 shipping)
Bergantino B.Amp bag - £59 (when bundled with amp)
Eich T Series bag - £45 (when bundled with amp)
Glockenklang bag - £40 (when bundled with amp)
Genzler bag - £45 (+£5 shipping)
Markbass LM3 bag - £55 (when bundled with amp) or £59 (+£4 shipping) standalone.
Venderkley Spartan bag - £50 (when bundled with amp)

Meanwhile...
Darkglass M900 bag - £40 (when bundled with amp. Seems reasonable.) or £80 (+£5 shipping) standalone!

It seems Bass Direct have put together these package deals to bring down some of the high retail prices of certain manufacturers. It's the only way they'll shift the bags in any real volume. BD don't seem to list the standalone prices for Berg, Eich, Glockenklang and Vanderkley's amp bags but I assume they'd be in the region of £5-£10 more expensive to purchase standalone. The Bergantino and MarkBass bags are particularly expensive but Bass Direct have literally had to HALVE the price of the Darkglass bag in their bundle offer in order to make it competitive with the majority of other brands.

On every amp's product page, BD also lists the equivalent Gator bag which is always considerably lower in price and made very well. I own one myself. In many cases the Gator bag will be better constructed than the amp brand's own effort. Gator literally make cases for a living though, so i suppose it should be.

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1507282570' post='3384436']
This is far too harsh.

It is entirely possible that the profit margin is tiny. Expensive does not equal robbery.

The bag and the cabs are very expensive to the point where I do not see sufficient value for money to consider buying them. But until you can say what the product and shipping overheads are you cannot call it robbery or price gouging.
A bag for an amp is a low selling item. Heavy bass cabs are, in the lightweight world, a low selling item. Production expenses must be recouped. That is not robbery.

That does not mean the value for money is good, or even that the product itself is a good concept to bring to market. But unless the total cost of producing a single unit is known you can't call it robbery / gouging etc.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I was probably a bit harsh. I think in all honesty, were the cabs lighter and maybe £200-300 less, then there would be less comments about them that were negative. It's an unknown quantity isn't it and when you have people like those at Barefaced and Bergantino (to name but two of the higher end manufacturers) at the top of their game, why would you drop so much on something just for the badge?

Of course you're right about the overheads, but doesn't that make them unsustainable? Then again, if they'd had them made in the far east and marketed them at that price there probably would be an even bigger outcry about rampant profiteering. The fact that there is only really distorted samples available doesn't inspire a lot of people I'd imagine, but that's what Darkglass do - dirt. Very well I hasten to add, but surely they're going to want to show the more versatile side of their stuff? Bit of clean? Bit of slap? Bit of pick? I hope they do as then we'll all have a better idea as to what almost £1300 of 4x10 will actually do to make it worth the money.

It all seems like a bit of a marketing mess.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1507284974' post='3384473']
I agree with Musicman20, they are definitely missing a big big trick with their stuff, the clean amp is rather good, and a good EQ, but we never hear it.
I really liked the clean EQ, but too many nobbles for me to tinker, and i wasn't using the distortion which to my ears still does not quite sit together with the clean sound, there is a slight separation rather than a pure parallel.

Anyway, they rally need to advertise the clean more, or it may have made more sense to bring out just a clean version of the amp with no distortion circuit, then you don't need the pedal they don't provide with the amp.........
[/quote]

Exactly, I want to know MORE about the cleans. My Stingrays sound absolutely amazing clean....and with a little dirt, but primarily I want to know what the amps is like clean, so it needs to be pushed more.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1507286090' post='3384486']
Fair enough, I was probably a bit harsh. I think in all honesty, were the cabs lighter and maybe £200-300 less, then there would be less comments about them that were negative. It's an unknown quantity isn't it and when you have people like those at Barefaced and Bergantino (to name but two of the higher end manufacturers) at the top of their game, why would you drop so much on something just for the badge?

Of course you're right about the overheads, but doesn't that make them unsustainable? Then again, if they'd had them made in the far east and marketed them at that price there probably would be an even bigger outcry about rampant profiteering. The fact that there is only really distorted samples available doesn't inspire a lot of people I'd imagine, but that's what Darkglass do - dirt. Very well I hasten to add, but surely they're going to want to show the more versatile side of their stuff? Bit of clean? Bit of slap? Bit of pick? I hope they do as then we'll all have a better idea as to what almost £1300 of 4x10 will actually do to make it worth the money.

It all seems like a bit of a marketing mess.
[/quote]


That last sentence sums it up completely.

It's a mess.

I am generally a DG fan. Love the B3K the AO, the M900, the Duality and the wonderful compressor. They are expensive but I was sufficiently content with the value for money to buy them.

The cabs - High weight + high price - I see no value
High weight - lower price - I might see value but not for me as I have zero desire to lift a heavy 4x10 ever again
Light weight + high price - value for money for me might be possible if they were significantly lighter than what I have, or the sound is appreciably better.
Light weight + low price - no point commenting as it won't happen.


The cabs seem to be a perfect concept for 1985 when heavy was viewed as desirable and an indication of quality.

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1507290292' post='3384527']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Light weight + low price - no point commenting as it won't happen.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

There are quite a few light weight + low price cabs about - but many of them are also light in power handling and/or tone!

[No. 8 Wire]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1507290292' post='3384527']

The cabs seem to be a perfect concept for 1985 when heavy was viewed as desirable and an indication of quality.
[/quote]

Maybe darkglass doesn't expect to sell any or many to the general public. They could just be a marketing tool so that endorsing artists can have a wall of darkglass cabs behind them in music videos, concerts and YouTube promos. After all, you can't see a pedal or a class D amp from the back of a gig can you?

The pricing is just there so the other gear doesn't look quite so expensive!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='No. 8 Wire' timestamp='1507292163' post='3384547']


Maybe darkglass doesn't expect to sell any or many to the general public. They could just be a marketing tool so that endorsing artists can have a wall of darkglass cabs behind them in music videos, concerts and YouTube promos. After all, you can't see a pedal or a class D amp from the back of a gig can you?

The pricing is just there so the other gear doesn't look quite so expensive!
[/quote]

I like your approach. I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of consumers don't realise exactly what happens to get them to buy products, and yes, I think being cynical and not trusting everything you are told helps.

[bjelkeman]

[quote name='No. 8 Wire' timestamp='1507292163' post='3384547']


Maybe darkglass doesn't expect to sell any or many to the general public. They could just be a marketing tool so that endorsing artists can have a wall of darkglass cabs behind them in music videos, concerts and YouTube promos. After all, you can't see a pedal or a class D amp from the back of a gig can you?

The pricing is just there so the other gear doesn't look quite so expensive!
[/quote]


Which is normally called price anchoring and is an effective marketing tool. Every marketing person needs to understand how that work. You should too, then you can make better purchasing decisions.

http://www.bonzamarketing.com/4-examples-of-effective-anchor-pricing-tactics/

Edited October 7, 2017 by bjelkeman

[No. 8 Wire]

[quote name='bjelkeman' timestamp='1507387529' post='3385144']



Which is normally called price anchoring and is an effective marketing tool. Every marketing person needs to understand how that work. You should too, then you can make better purchasing decisions.

http://www.bonzamarketing.com/4-examples-of-effective-anchor-pricing-tactics/
[/quote]

Thanks for putting a name to it, at some stage I need to put a little time into studying marketing and pricing strategies- for a business I have in mind.

Are you in marketing yourself?

Edited October 7, 2017 by No. 8 Wire

[bjelkeman]

[quote name='No. 8 Wire' timestamp='1507388826' post='3385158']
Thanks for putting a name to it, at some stage I need to put a little time into studying marketing and pricing strategies- for a business I have in mind.

Are you in marketing yourself?
[/quote]

Part of my work is marketing and price setting for digital services.

[Darkglass]

Hey guys, thanks everyone for all the comments and feedback.

As for weight and specs we did screw up with the 210 weight on the release date.

As for the weight, given that this are our first cabs I just wanted to go for whatever sounded best, we did a lot of tests with different drivers and materials and decided that Eminence ceramics (custom made for us) and a Baltic birch construction was the way to go solely for how they sounded.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1507241081' post='3384251']
Has anyone on here had a chance to try one of these DG cabs? Or compare them with others? They might be truly phenomenal...
[/quote]

Most UK dealers should be getting them within a week's time, looking forward to hearing what you guys think once you've tried them!

Regards,
D.

[Kev]

Impressed with the skills of a few people in this thread, I must confess to having no ability in determining the design, build quality and sound of a speaker cabinet from a jpeg and a price.

Personally, I am going to go a test one (at BD in the company of the great cabs available, mostly at a higher price) and see how it compares. My Berg NV cab is wonderful (and ceramic too) so it will be hard to beat!

[Dood]

[quote name='Darkglass' timestamp='1507624563' post='3386781']
Hey guys, thanks everyone for all the comments and feedback.

As for weight and specs we did screw up with the 210 weight on the release date.

As for the weight, given that this are our first cabs I just wanted to go for whatever sounded best, we did a lot of tests with different drivers and materials and decided that Eminence ceramics (custom made for us) and a Baltic birch construction was the way to go solely for how they sounded.



Most UK dealers should be getting them within a week's time, looking forward to hearing what you guys think once you've tried them!

Regards,
D.
[/quote]


If we can hook something up, I will be happy to video review the m900 and a pair of cabs in Guitar Interactive for everyone. I will as requested focus on the clean tones too.

I’d also like to get Alpha Omega and it’s little sibling over for a review too in which I’ll endure the non-full bore tones are demonstrated too.

The mag has a massive readership all over the world but I still focus on ‘No Shred, No Ego, Just Bass’, because I want the gear to shine rather than trying to focus on ‘the player’.

[fretmeister]

The AO is fantastic as a clean preamp too - with the drive at nil.

Super impressed with that ability on it. I haven't yet tried that direct into my powered FRFR but I'm very curious to give it a go. I'll try that at the weekend.

[dannybuoy]

Maybe with the blend at nil also... Mine's still pretty dirty with the gain all the way off! But set to the alpha side it's a great dirty amp sim when used like that.