Clarky72 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) So I run my bass into a Line6 G50 wireless down to my board. It keeps us cable free onstage, invaluable at small gigs so we don't get tangled up as well as larger ones where you want the freedom of no lead. Here's the problem though... we have a female singer, she always wears heels. Her heels trash our cables from board to amp. Anyone else have this problem? My solutions are: a. buy a second wireless system to run from the board to the amp. b. run super long cables around the edge of the stage to the amp to keep away from high heels. Issues with the first solution is that I cant find anything designed for this and would have to attach a strap mount transmitter to my board; and with the second solution I could end up with bad lag/degradation from a loooooong cable. Any thoughts? Edited October 2, 2017 by Clarky72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 With regards to a - depending upon what wireless unit you choose to use, you may get results which are/are not acceptable to you. For example, two line 6 units used in this manner will give you less overall latency than say just one single smooth hound wireless unit. Whether you can cope with additional latency depends upon you as a player - and what other digital pedals are in play that will add latency. Its a shame that the latency on the smooth hound is bad - thats the sort of form factor you'd like hanging out the last pedal in your chain. With regards to b - shouldn't be a problem but the additional capacitance will lead to a loss of highs, a decrease in signal strength and an increased chance of additional noise being added to your signal path. Have you thought about having one of those rubber cable protectors that you find in offices to put over the top of the cables to protect them? Think they look a bit ugly... but at least it will save you on cables. What are you doing with regards to power to your board by the way? Are you battery powered - or is there still a mains cable going to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Is your singer unable to look where she's walking? Surely the rest of the band shouldn't have to spend money on a technical solution when the simplest and easiest workaround is for your singer to have a bit of spatial awareness. If you play on particularly dark stages then maybe use lighter coloured cables or tape them with fluorescent tape. Any more effort than that is lunacy. Edited October 2, 2017 by CameronJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='CameronJ' timestamp='1506941952' post='3382088'] Is your singer unable to look where she's walking? Surely the rest of the band shouldn't have spend money on a technical solution when the simplest and easiest workaround is for your singer to have a bit of spatial awareness. If you play on particularly dark stages then maybe use lighter coloured cables or tape them with fluorescent tape. Any more effort than that is lunacy. [/quote] Man - have you tried walking in heels? You'd be lucky to stay upright! Maybe the singer is one of those jumps around everywhere and the visuals would be compromised if she didn't? Nothing looks crappier on stage than a load of different coloured cable everywhere... just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Bill her for every cable she breaks. That will do it. Also - I've always put my board to amp cables where people won't step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I agree re: coloured cables not looking good on stage. But if the choice is between spending £30 on new cables or £200 on a new wireless system, I know which one I'll choose. Fair enough about the visuals though. Routing cables the long way might be the best compromise here in that case. If you have a decent buffer in your signal chain then the potential signal loss due to cable length can be negated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506941783' post='3382087'] With regards to a - depending upon what wireless unit you choose to use, you may get results which are/are not acceptable to you. For example, two line 6 units used in this manner will give you less overall latency than say just one single smooth hound wireless unit. Whether you can cope with additional latency depends upon you as a player - and what other digital pedals are in play that will add latency. Its a shame that the latency on the smooth hound is bad - thats the sort of form factor you'd like hanging out the last pedal in your chain. [/quote] Interesting comment, although I've never actually measured it, I have never noticed any additional latency from my smoothhound over my previous wireless rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1506944039' post='3382121'] Interesting comment, although I've never actually measured it, I have never noticed any additional latency from my smoothhound over my previous wireless rigs. [/quote] I don't think a lot of people do thing about it to be honest because the argument that is always given is that "its only like moving x yards further away from your amp". Thing is, if you are running digital pedals, digital wireless, digital desks... that additional latency will become more and more apparent. The disconnect of playing a note and it not sounding when you expect it doesn't take a lot of latency to become very apparent. Not all devices are equal - some are highly tuned and get sub 1ms latency... others can be a lot lot higher. As a ballpark figure (and for some players it will be a lot lower), the industry maximum acceptable latency on the signal path is agreed at 10ms - for IEMs you want to be below this. If your smooth hound is taking 8ms... you can see that it's a very greedy device in terms of latency. And in more complex setups, digital snakes, audio over ethernet.... etc... you can see why the latency figures for devices becomes very important! Your system is only as fast as your slowest audio path - as all these things need to be time delayed so you get everything in phase. I do realise that this setup is generally beyond the considerations for most jobbing bands however! Edited October 2, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Certainly beyond me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I'd go with option B - run long cables around the outside of the stage. Another option is Rugs. Run all your cables as normal and then put rugs on top of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Not knowing your band set up here's a few questions How often do you change pedal settings during a set ? Do you only make changes between songs or during a song ? Is it possible to have your pedals towards the front and at the side of the drumkit where its accessible while playing yet out of the way from singer. Failing that long cables round the edge of the stage altho i do like the idea of rugs over the cables. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I only ever change settings between songs so keep the pedal next to my amp, I too am not a fan of having cables across the stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Something like this do you? https://www.amazon.co.uk/D-Line-Light-Duty-Cable-Cover/dp/B0078NU4C6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Still charge her. If you broke her mic you'd replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506954453' post='3382254'] Still charge her. If you broke her mic you'd replace it. [/quote] The singers in my band still don't own their own mics. They use mine. It's funny because it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506954596' post='3382258'] The singers in my band still don't own their own mics. They use mine. It's funny because it's true. [/quote] Please tell me they paid for the PA then? Or even the after show pizza? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506941783' post='3382087'] With regards to a - depending upon what wireless unit you choose to use, you may get results which are/are not acceptable to you. For example, two line 6 units used in this manner will give you less overall latency than say just one single smooth hound wireless unit. Whether you can cope with additional latency depends upon you as a player - and what other digital pedals are in play that will add latency. Its a shame that the latency on the smooth hound is bad - thats the sort of form factor you'd like hanging out the last pedal in your chain. With regards to b - shouldn't be a problem but the additional capacitance will lead to a loss of highs, a decrease in signal strength and an increased chance of additional noise being added to your signal path. Have you thought about having one of those rubber cable protectors that you find in offices to put over the top of the cables to protect them? Think they look a bit ugly... but at least it will save you on cables. What are you doing with regards to power to your board by the way? Are you battery powered - or is there still a mains cable going to it? [/quote] So here's my board (below) It does seem like a long lead might be the simplest answer though. And for what it's worth our singer doesn't own anything either. I think her mic stand is even one of our spares... OMG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506954736' post='3382261'] Please tell me they paid for the PA then? Or even the after show pizza? [/quote] Nope. and err... nope. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 everybody knows singers are exempt from buying any equipment, then they don't have to help with the setting up or taking down at a gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I tend to stick my board nearer my amp and not at the front of the stage , this only works as I don't use it during songs only in between . If I where you , although it's a new problem on me , is juts get a longer cable and use a route away from the singer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1506955276' post='3382275'] [/quote] A Line6 G10 (circa £140) would fit on there quite nice. (Latency <2,9ms) G50 shares the same radio tech, so again, <2.9ms. Total <5.8ms - so well within the range of acceptable! If you were to add the smooth hound to the above board instead of the G10- the smooth hound is the same sort of format transmitter as the G10, you are looking at just over 10ms. For me thats beginning to get a bit too high for my liking. I'm not sure about the latency of the TC, but I'd allow 2ms for that. For any Line6 users wanting to know about latency all the 4th gen is <2.9ms, all the 5th gen stuff (e.g. G70/G75), that is <1.5ms. So things are getting seriously quick in theLine 6 wireless world! Seems that we are beginning to get in the zone where digital IEMs can become a mainstream reality! (Lectrosonics (pay telephone numbers) are currently the only people that I know of that have a product available in that domain). Whats a decent 6m cable work out at? £20...£25? All interesting stuff. Of course, if you want to be uber pimp, then you need to get rid of all your cables and get this battery powered. Theres a thread where we are talking about home brew power supplies that would get something like this running for five hours or so... You'd have to buy some decent batteries and a charger though! To be honest, I'm kinda into all this stuff, so I'd probably do it. Of course, you do realise that the screen on the tuner is begging through a stiletto through it...? Edited October 2, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1506956218' post='3382288'] everybody knows singers are exempt from buying any equipment, then they don't have to help with the setting up or taking down at a gig [/quote] And they think that they have to arrive literally 5 mins before they go on stage. They still spend 30 minutes putting on their makeup... (thats the guy in my band, the female is worse!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 PS - whats the storm trooper pedal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506957757' post='3382305'] PS - whats the storm trooper pedal? [/quote] Its an amazing clean boost my lovely friend built for me. ( I have to say that, he's the moderator of this section of BC ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1506957862' post='3382307'] Its an amazing clean boost my lovely friend built for me. ( I have to say that, he's the moderator of this section of BC ) [/quote] Yeah - that will power easily enough from a battery solution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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