Bass & Wireless onstage

[BigRedX]

I'd replace all those pedals with a multi-effects unit that can be placed on top of your amp (or rack mounted with it), and then run a single controller cable of the appropriate type (probably Cat5 or MIDI) around the edge of the stage to your foot controller unit.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506945152' post='3382128']
I don't think a lot of people do think about it to be honest because the argument that is always given is that "its only like moving x yards further away from your amp".

Thing is, if you are running digital pedals, digital wireless, digital desks... that additional latency will become more and more apparent. The disconnect of playing a note and it not sounding when you expect it doesn't take a lot of latency to become very apparent. Not all devices are equal - some are highly tuned and get sub 1ms latency... others can be a lot lot higher. As a ballpark figure (and for some players it will be a lot lower), the industry maximum acceptable latency on the signal path is agreed at 10ms - for IEMs you want to be below this. If your smooth hound is taking 8ms... you can see that it's a very greedy device in terms of latency.

And in more complex setups, digital snakes, audio over ethernet.... etc... you can see why the latency figures for devices becomes very important! Your system is only as fast as your slowest audio path - as all these things need to be time delayed so you get everything in phase. I do realise that this setup is generally beyond the considerations for most jobbing bands however!
[/quote]

All good points and you are definitely our latent expert on er...well, all matters to do with latency, for sure But here's the thing: how slow is human reaction time and how much does it slow with each passing decade?

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1506944039' post='3382121']
Interesting comment, although I've never actually measured it, I have never noticed any additional latency from my smoothhound over my previous wireless rigs.
[/quote]

+1 to being completely happy thus far with my Smooth Hound, although the similarly priced Line 6 G10 [i]does[/i] look good I'll have to say. Is it a fair bit bulkier than the Smooth Hound in terms of size on pedal board?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1506958529' post='3382312']
I'd replace all those pedals with a multi-effects unit that can be placed on top of your amp (or rack mounted with it), and then run a single controller cable of the appropriate type (probably Cat5 or MIDI) around the edge of the stage to your foot controller unit.
[/quote]

How much are we talking about for a multi-fx that can match the quality of dirt from a Two Notes or a Pike Vulcan or the clean blend octave down of a COG T16/47/65 or the compression ability of a Cali 76 or even an MXR M87? Can any of them even do it?

Edited October 2, 2017 by Al Krow

[EBS_freak]

It's not just whether you are happy with the latency... it whether the audience go, "what they hell is going on with that bass player... can't even play in time".

I get what you are saying about the difference in the sizes between the two units... but I see a shed load of space on that pedal board.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506960171' post='3382328']
How much are we talking about for a multi-fx that can match the quality of dirt from a Two Notes or a Pike Vulcan or the clean blend octave down of a COG T16/47/65 or the compression ability of a Cali 76 or even an MXR M87? Can any of them even do it?
[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure the audience will point it out to you!

[T-Bay]

Rubber bungs on her heels? I use bright green cables and a smooth hound wireless setup. It seems it's not popular to have coloured cables but it helps at break down time especially when you have a band member with a 'bad memory' for which cables are theirs. All my black speaker and mic cables have yellow cable ties at both ends for the same reason.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506960881' post='3382336']
Yes, I'm sure the audience will point it out to you!
[/quote]

Yes but if you're going down that route of "will the audience notice", why stop there? We all might as well sign off BC right now, get a cheap slightly battered £50 bass with useless pups and worn out strings, through a cheap amp with a sh** cab and not bother with pedals at all, oh yes...and just play the root notes?

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1506961010' post='3382337']
Rubber bungs on her heels? I use bright green cables and a smooth hound wireless setup. It seems it's not popular to have coloured cables but it helps at break down time especially when you have a band member with a 'bad memory' for which cables are theirs. All my black speaker and mic cables have yellow cable ties at both ends for the same reason.
[/quote]

My own gear cables go in my own bag. I set up and dismantle my own gear to ensure no confusion over what's mine. I paid a lot for good quality leads especially my OBBM ones and don't want some dim witted guitarist who unlike us professional bassists on BC just don't give a sh*t about such things and would unwittingly put in his own bag if left unattended. I believe all guitarists should therefore be tethered before, during and immediately after the gig until the bass equipment is securely locked away from sight thus rendering their stupidity inconsequential.

PA cables all goes into one box rather than individuals having their own mic cables. Most bands i've been in the PA belonged to one person usually the guitarist for some odd reason but maybe i've just been lucky

I guess if everyone has their own colour coded cables it makes a lot of sense. I kinda like that idea even if its only coloured tape at each end or as you say coloured cable ties each end.

Dave

Edited October 2, 2017 by dmccombe7

[CameronJ]

Yep all my cables are Velcro cable tied. Since I am the only one of my musician friends to be OCD enough to use them, it's easy to prove if a cable is mine or not!

[dudewheresmybass]

I am using an older x2 rack mounted system, with the receiver on my amp.
I run a 20 ft cable from the receiver to my board and 20ft back to the amp. And I run the cable around the edge of the stage, so I can keep a clean, clutter free performance space.
There is no significant loss of high end ( I am very fussy about my top end) or latency.

[Clarky72]

[quote name='dudewheresmybass' timestamp='1507015642' post='3382659']
I am using an older x2 rack mounted system, with the receiver on my amp.
I run a 20 ft cable from the receiver to my board and 20ft back to the amp. And I run the cable around the edge of the stage, so I can keep a clean, clutter free performance space.
There is no significant loss of high end ( I am very fussy about my top end) or latency.
[/quote]
Thanks, I think I'm going to go with long cables around the edge of the stage and try that out.

[Dood]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506960171' post='3382328']


How much are we talking about for a multi-fx that can match the quality of dirt from a Two Notes or a Pike Vulcan or the clean blend octave down of a COG T16/47/65 or the compression ability of a Cali 76 or even an MXR M87? Can any of them even do it?
[/quote]

Well a very strong contender that I feel could do that and a whole lot more would be the Helix LT by Line 6. Give me a couple of weeks or so and I’ll be able to confirm that for sure.

[charic]

Now all we need is for wireless send and receive in a Line6 Helix board (hoping in V2!), theoretically they could go wireless bass to board and wireless board to amp.

[Dood]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1507020756' post='3382703']
Now all we need is for wireless send and receive in a Line6 Helix board (hoping in V2!), theoretically they could go wireless bass to board and wireless board to amp.
[/quote]

Or at least digital I/O between wireless and LT which would keep the latency down.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1507020756' post='3382703']
Now all we need is for wireless send and receive in a Line6 Helix board (hoping in V2!), theoretically they could go wireless bass to board and wireless board to amp.
[/quote]

No. You buy the rack version and use the foot controller. Then all you need is a single wireless connection between your bass. The foot controller doesn't actually carry any signal so no extra latency.

As for the "authenticity" of the effects in multi-effects units. It's never something that really bothers me. The various amp and effects might not sound like the units they are supposed to be imitating, but for me that's not the point. The point is that I can get a sound which works for the song within the band mix. My current multi-effect of choice is the now ancient BassPod XT. There are 7 different distortion effects available plus the drive parameter built into the each amp model. From that I can always get something that works perfectly for the band sound.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1507020756' post='3382703']
Now all we need is for wireless send and receive in a Line6 Helix board (hoping in V2!), theoretically they could go wireless bass to board and wireless board to amp.
[/quote]

Won't happen. The L6 lead designer has already said so.

They want a unit they can sell anywhere. Different places have vastly different wireless laws. The differences are far greater than just dealing with simple power supply issues. Not to mention that including wireless in the unit would push the price up quite a bit for something that many people just don't use. And forcing a particular type of wireless on a customer might clash with what the rest of his band use.

Not to mention the same fact that BigRedX said about using the rack unit and a no latency control unit instead (as I do).

From what I gather there are no plans for Helix2 for another 6 to 8 years - just the other day they confirmed there are bits inside that haven't even been turned on yet. But as with all techy things - if you like the sound today, you'll still like the sound the day after the new one appears.

[bertbass]

I never, ever, ever have leads running across the stage, nothing to do with high heels, I don't want to trip over them. All leads always run round the edges of the stage and behind backline or across the front and taped down! I never have noise problems either.

[WalMan]

[quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1506939906' post='3382073'] Issues with the first solution is that I cant find anything designed for this and would have to attach a strap mount transmitter to my board; Any thoughts? [/quote] [url="http://www.smoothhound-innovations.com/"]Smoothhound system[/url]? The transmitter is probably shallower than a Boss pedal when plugged in. British made. Inexpensive. Works really well

[BigRedX]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1507024330' post='3382743']
- if you like the sound today, you'll still like the sound the day after the new one appears.
[/quote]

Which is why I'm still procrastinating about "upgrading" my BassPod XT to a Helix.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1507029334' post='3382804']
[url="http://www.smoothhound-innovations.com/"]Smoothhound system[/url]? The transmitter is probably shallower than a Boss pedal when plugged in. British made. Inexpensive. Works really well
[/quote]

Depends on what other digital devices you have in your signal chain and how sensitive your are to signal latency. The Smoothhound system has quite high latency which in itself isn't a problem but could be if you have other devices adding to the overall latency of your signal.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1507031078' post='3382825']
Which is why I'm still procrastinating about "upgrading" my BassPod XT to a Helix.
[/quote]

I had sold my XT a few years before. I almost bought another instead of the Helix. But in the end I was trying to get 1 rig for both guitar and bass. Job done!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1507032025' post='3382838']
I had sold my XT a few years before. I almost bought another instead of the Helix. But in the end I was trying to get 1 rig for both guitar and bass. Job done!
[/quote]

When I add up the value of all the gear that I currently have that could potentially be replaced by a Helix, it would almost pay for itself.

[Graham S]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1506957561' post='3382300']
And they think that they have to arrive literally 5 mins before they go on stage.

[/quote]

Or minutes after, in one band I worked in!

[CameronJ]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1507033062' post='3382851']
When I add up the value of all the gear that I currently have that could potentially be replaced by a Helix, it would almost pay for itself.
[/quote]

If I were to sell my existing gear, I'd probably have enough for a Helix and a powered FRFR cab with change left over! I'm seriously considering it...

[EBS_freak]

The Helix is ridiculously good... as is the Kemper... as in the AxeFx... as is the Bias... It's a great time to be using modelling tech. I would not have said this years ago - I remember when Line6 was pretty nasty sounding stuff when using it live but I have to say that now, anybody that is convinced that they can tell the difference between the sound of an amp and a modeler is really kidding themselves.

The flexibility and portability is spot on... and yes, there will always be the purists that want amps and pedals, the ease and portability of the modelers is something that has me sold! (Kemper with remote user here)

[mikeswals]

get a section of rug and lay it over your cable