BigRedX Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012, 16GB RAM, ElCapitan, Logic 9, Saffire Mix Control 3.7 My current band wants to ditch their ancient Minidisc player that they have been using for their backing tracks and I suggested using my MacBook and Focusrite interface as it would give us more flexibility live. However at our first rehearsal last night I noticed that we were getting bleed/cross talk of the click track on the main backing track. In Logic I have 2 tracks on the arrange page one with the backing in stereo, and the second with the click track in mono. The stereo backing is routed to Saffire line outputs 1&2, and the click to Saffire line output 3. When I play the track I can hear the click faintly in the stereo outputs. Not a problem at rehearsal, but live it will be easily notable through the PA. The strange thing is that the click cross-talk only happens when I plug in the lead from output 3 to the drummer's headphone amp. Things I have already checked: 1. It doesn't appear to be a routing problem since the click is only audible in Outputs 1&2 when the lead is plugged into output 3. 2. The click is definitely bleeding through into the main outputs and not some psycho-acoustic effect caused by it being massively loud in the drummer's headphones 3. I have tried routing the click to the other line outs, with the same result. As soon as the lead to the headphone amp is plugged in the click also appears faintly in outputs 1&2. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 What happens if the volume of the drummer's click is reduced to zero..? Still the crosstalk..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Unfortunately, it sounds like a fault to me. However I would recommend phoning the Tech support team on Monday (or whenever you're next with yoursetup), and they can trouble-shoot with you. If you're only with the setup out of office hours (mon-fri 9:30-6), then there is a live chat option on the website which is available until about 1am UK time. Let me know if you have any issues! Si // Focusrite Media Relations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) Sibob, On another forum it has been suggested that it might be an earthing issue. Are the jack line outs on the Saffire balanced or unbalanced? Unfortunately trouble-shooting the interface in situ is not going to be an option since our we can't even get a phone signal in our rehearsal room, let alone get on the internet. We really need this sorting for our gig on Saturday.... Any ideas Edited October 16, 2017 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Dad3353, if you mean turning down the click in either Logic or the Safire Mix Control program, then yes when you do that the sound of the click disappears from the main outputs. The click only appears in outputs 1&2 when the lead from the interface to the headphone amp is plugged into whatever output the click has been routed to, and the click is actually going to the headphone amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Short term fix and far from ideal but can you pan the click hard left and your FOH mix hard right and see what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1508141329' post='3389934'] Short term fix and far from ideal but can you pan the click hard left and your FOH mix hard right and see what happens? [/quote] You mean changing the routing so that the backing is only on output 1 and the click on output 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1508154716' post='3390068'] You mean changing the routing so that the backing is only on output 1 and the click on output 2? [/quote] Yeah, sorry I probably could have phrased that better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 I'll give that a go if some of the other solutions I've been given elsewhere don't work I'll give it a go. However AFAICS the outputs are just 6 individual outs and whether they work as 6 mono outputs, 3 stereo outputs or anything in between depends on how they are configured in Logic or the Saffire Mix Control program, so I doubt it will make a difference. When I originally tried it it didn't make any difference which of the other 4 outputs the click was routed to, as soon as I plugged the cable into the corresponding output socket the sound of the click could be heard faintly from outputs 1&2 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just a thought - have you tried connecting the click track output to something other than the drummers headphone amp, and does the problem persist? According to the focusrite website the line outs on your interface are TRS balanced mono, so as you indicated in an earlier post you were unsure about this you might want to review your cabling solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Each of the 1/4" outputs on the rear is a balanced mono output. If there was a grounding issue (unbalanced or faulty cables for example), I would expect there to be noise on that output, but not necessarily faint signal from another output. If you're using unbalanced cables (1 black band around each plug), do try balanced cables (two black bands), but this may not solve the issue. As has been mentioned, you could test whether the issue occurs by switching your main outputs from 1-2 to say 5-6.....however you need to be a bit careful as only outputs 1-2 are controlled by the physical volume control on the front of the unit (as you've no-doubt noticed with output 3). You can control outputs 3, 4, 5 & 6 using the software volume in Mix Control, or if that is up full (as is standard), you'll simply get full-scale line level out of those outputs. This is fine if you only use the interface for live use (the FOH desk will be fine to accept line level), but absolutely not good if you plug in some monitor speakers to those outputs, you'll scare yourself (I know this is true from experience, we've all done it here at one point), as well as potentially damage your monitors. As mentioned, as difficult as it may be, moving the setup to an area with signal/internet in order to troubleshoot with one of the team is your best bet. They'll be able to advise quickly whether a hardware repair is needed. Cheers Si // Focusrite Media Relations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 For anyone who has been following this and is interested, I have a fix that works for me. I'm running the main stereo backing out of outputs 1&2 on the Saffire using unbalanced cables into an EMO dual channel DI box with ground lift switched on (with the ground connected I was getting a nasty buzz through the rehearsal room PA). I'm then running the click track from output 3 on the Saffire to the Yamaha Headphone amp using a special lead I made up that has a TRS jack plug at the end which plugs into the Saffire with nothing attached to the R terminal and a standard TS jack plug at the end which plugs into the headphone amp. Everything worked fine at last night's rehearsal, and there was no bleed through of the click track into the main output. The gig is on Saturday (Leeds Goth City Festival) so hopefully it will all still be working fine then. I'm looking at a long term solution that will allow me to run a completely balanced line system and hopefully not have to rely on custom-wired cables to make it work. I've been recommended an [url=http://artproaudio.com/isolators/product/dti/]ART DTI box[/url] for floating the main outputs to the PA while still maintaining a balanced connection, and then a headphone amp with a balanced line input for the drummer. This is where I am struggling. A quick Google just reveals lots of HiFi units and USB DA converters for headphones. What I'm looking for is something gig-proof, and simple. Built to the same standards as the EMO and ART units. Anyone got any recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1508506615' post='3392662']...Anyone got any recommendations? [/quote] Use one of these as a drummer headphone amp..? Balanced inputs... [url="https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_powerplay_p1.htm?ref=search_rslt_Behringer+POWERPLAY+P1_337109_0"]Thomann GB: Behringer Powerplay P1 ...[/url] Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thanks Dad! However IMO over £50 when you factor in the shipping cost is a lot of money for something made by Behringer - especially since it doesn't include the PSU and the headphone output is a mini-jack which is not always robust enough for live use in my own experience. The reviews do seem good though, and according to the Behringer site it is "built like a tank". Maybe it will be worth trying in no-one comes up with an alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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