De Gier Lowlander - Thunderbird tribute

[LZD56]

http://www.degierguitars.com/

Wow, just wow! Great sound, great demo video.

[Bigwan]

Very nice!

[Rikki_Sixx]

Was just reading about this on No Treble, it looks great. Getting rid of some of the drawbacks of a "proper" Thunderbird should make the Lowlander a real winner!

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Agh! Someone finally gets the headstock right, but that body...

[NancyJohnson]

Hideous and it's a snip too at nearly 3,000 euros.

Sorry, but man alive, with a sales strategy like that, this company needs to go down the toilet.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1508338622' post='3391469']
Hideous and it's a snip too at nearly 3,000 euros.

Sorry, but man alive, with a sales strategy like that, this company needs to go down the toilet.
[/quote]

Really? Like, really? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. No arguing over the price, it's not cheap, but neither is a Lull ($4.3k wasn't it? Plus shipping and import duty no doubt...).

What about the "sales strategy" don't you like? Maybe investigate Sanders products a bit more. Marcus Miller and Richard Bona using his basses.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Bigwan

[Treb]

Great looking and sounding bass but not quite my cup of tea. Excellent demo by Michel van Schie (the best bassplayer in the Netherlands if you ask me).

Keep in mind that you get a handmade bass by Sander, I think the price reflects that. Order one now and get a €500 discount, sounds like great deal. AFAIK Sander runs a one man business.

[Happy Jack]

As the proud owner of a Mike Lull T5, I looked at that superb demo (and that, BTW, is how all bass demos should be done) and thought the two basses are probably on a par with each other.

I didn't see anything there to get upset about.

Well, apart from the fact that I will never EVER play bass as well as that.

[Hellzero]

Wow. I hate the Thunderbird, but this one sees all the default of the original gone by a clever process of thinking right. Lookat the other video, you'll understand why this Lowlander sounds terrific : https://youtu.be/JZ5ifnvXKtQ

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1508339906' post='3391483']

Really? Like, really? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. No arguing over the price, it's not cheap, but neither is a Lull ($4.3k wasn't it? Plus shipping and import duty no doubt...).
[/quote]

£4.4K delivered.

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1508339906' post='3391483']
Really? Like, really? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.
[/quote]

There's no doubting the design lineage, but come on, it is a bit of a munter, especially the double cutaways and the accommodating pickguard. They're copying everything else from a '60s Thunderbird, so why not just go the whole hog?

The demo sounds decent enough, but it's swathed in layers of reverb; I'll wager that that tone is obtainable from pretty much any bass with fresh strings and decent outboard gear.

[Hellzero]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1508659660' post='3393537']


There's no doubting the design lineage, but come on, it is a bit of a munter, especially the double cutaways and the accommodating pickguard. They're copying everything else from a '60s Thunderbird, so why not just go the whole hog?

The demo sounds decent enough, but it's swathed in layers of reverb; I'll wager that that tone is obtainable from pretty much any bass with fresh strings and decent outboard gear.
[/quote]

Did you watch Sander DeGier video ? I don't think so. You'll get plenty of informations about his new approach of this Thunderbird. I hate Thunderbirds, but you have to recognize its work and knowledge. I tried a friend's 2015 Thunderbird (new price is close to £2500 GBP !) last week and it's simply a piece of sh*t, really the worst instrument ever made : impossible to play as it's neck diving all the time and absolutely muddy sound, lacking so much definition.

[ezbass]

It sounds like a very nice bass to me and not a million miles from my Ric 4003s (albeit with better balanced pickups). However, as a lover of the original T’Bird and F’Bird aesthetic (warts and all) those cutaways aren’t for me.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1508659660' post='3393537']
They're copying everything else from a '60s Thunderbird, so why not just go the whole hog?
[/quote]

It's pretty clear you DIDN'T watch Sander's video. As he says himself it's his own version of a 60's T-bird, but it's pretty far from a copy. Wishing his company to go down the tubes because it's not enough of a copy for your liking is borderline idiotic.

Perhaps if it said Lull on the headstock (and possibly cost a couple of thousand more) you might like it more?

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1508660830' post='3393544']I tried a friend's 2015 Thunderbird (new price is close to £2500 GBP !) last week and it's simply a piece of sh*t, really the worst instrument ever made : impossible to play as it's neck diving all the time and absolutely muddy sound, lacking so much definition.[/quote]

What difference a year makes then. My 2014 has no neck dive, is wonderful to play and cost £1100 brand new - it'd been sitting around the shop so they kept lowering the price. Granted it is bassy but with a tweak on the amp it sounds fantastic.

[T-Bay]

I am a big T-bird fan and love that, I am a few quid short of the asking price sadly........

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1508660830' post='3393544']
Did you watch Sander DeGier video ? I don't think so. You'll get plenty of informations about his new approach of this Thunderbird. I hate Thunderbirds, but you have to recognize its work and knowledge. I tried a friend's 2015 Thunderbird (new price is close to £2500 GBP !) last week and it's simply a piece of sh*t, really the worst instrument ever made : impossible to play as it's neck diving all the time and absolutely muddy sound, lacking so much definition.
[/quote]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1508677507' post='3393683']
Perhaps if it said Lull on the headstock (and possibly cost a couple of thousand more) you might like it more?
[/quote]

Let's address these snips. [list]
[*]Yes, I watched both the videos, but hey, thanks for telling me that I didn't.
[*]Hellzero, you hate Thunderbirds. Well, good for you. I like Thunderbirds. Hooray for me!
[*]Hellzero, if your friend paid £2,500 for a 2015, then he's been done, hook, line and sinker. The internet is your friend's friend. Shop around. For £2,500 he could have bought a Lowlander. You should have worked on him. Perhaps there's a reason why he bought a Gibson.
[*]Hellzero, neckdive, impossible to play and muddy sound. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Big yaaaawn.
[*]Bigwan, because, oh yes, if it had Lull on the headstock I'd definitely buy three. Maybe four. (And remember, I didn't bring Lull into this thread, you did.) Put Spector on the headstock and perhaps Gary would buy a handful as well.
[*]I liked the tone (but the You Tube video is drenched with EQ and reverb), I liked the volute, I thought the rear straplok location was interesting, but not something I'd consider.
[/list]
Thing that I don't seem to be able to grasp here is that if you got lucky you could by three used Thunderbirds for the price of that bass and with the Lowlander you're getting a copy of the aforementioned bass, but with the added bonus of having two big bites taken out of the body, which for me is a mahoosive turnoff. It's like those Schecter and Jackson basses that ape the Gibson design but there's something fundamentally wrong/flawed with the body shape. If the bass retained the original body shape, then I would probably been more positive/interested.

On their other stuff, the Origin and Evolution basses look OK, but not really my bag in the slightest. The Soulmate, BeBop and Surfer are just Precision, Jazz and Strat reinterpretations. The Junior looks like a Novak Charlie Hunter.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1508751889' post='3394108']




Let's address these snips. [list]
[*]Yes, I watched both the videos, but hey, thanks for telling me that I didn't.
[*]Hellzero, you hate Thunderbirds. Well, good for you. I like Thunderbirds. Hooray for me!
[*]Hellzero, if your friend paid £2,500 for a 2015, then he's been done, hook, line and sinker. The internet is your friend's friend. Shop around. For £2,500 he could have bought a Lowlander. You should have worked on him. Perhaps there's a reason why he bought a Gibson.
[*]Hellzero, neckdive, impossible to play and muddy sound. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Big yaaaawn.
[*]Bigwan, because, oh yes, if it had Lull on the headstock I'd definitely buy three. Maybe four. (And remember, I didn't bring Lull into this thread, you did.) Put Spector on the headstock and perhaps Gary would buy a handful as well.
[*]I liked the tone (but the You Tube video is drenched with EQ and reverb), I liked the volute, I thought the rear straplok location was interesting, but not something I'd consider.
[/list]
Thing that I don't seem to be able to grasp here is that if you got lucky you could by three used Thunderbirds for the price of that bass and with the Lowlander you're getting a copy of the aforementioned bass, but with the added bonus of having two big bites taken out of the body, which for me is a mahoosive turnoff. It's like those Schecter and Jackson basses that ape the Gibson design but there's something fundamentally wrong/flawed with the body shape. If the bass retained the original body shape, then I would probably been more positive/interested.

On their other stuff, the Origin and Evolution basses look OK, but not really my bag in the slightest. The Soulmate, BeBop and Surfer are just Precision, Jazz and Strat reinterpretations. The Junior looks like a Novak Charlie Hunter.
[/quote]

And what part of all of that means Sander De Gier's business deserves to go down the tubes? You started the asshatery mate...

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Bigwan]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1508754581' post='3394138']
Great video with nice range of likely uses!

I love T-birds, and this one seems like a great version. Lots of attention to detail. The cutaways will be the main point of contention (beyond the fact it's a 'bird). I don't have a problem with them, although they do jar a little with my [i]expectations[/i] when looking at the bass. The pickguard seems a touch clumsy, surprisingly so on what seems such a meticulously designed bass, but I would be pretty chuffed to be rocking one of these!
[/quote]

If you look at the De Gier instagram account there's pics of the unfinished bass without the pickguard. I think it looks better without it! Having said that I can understand why dyed-in-the-wool t-bird fans wouldn't like the body shape...

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1508752947' post='3394115']
And what part of all of that means Sander De Gier's business deserves to go down the tubes? You started the asshatery mate...
[/quote]

OK, get a coffee.

For a decade plus, I worked for a very successful wristwatch company - if you search my posts you'll find out who they were easily enough and hey, you know I'm buying a Lull, so you you must have done your due diligence. Our product was pitched from the low end/catalogue business up to pieces with a retail price of c.£650/700. Largely because of one key piece of technology (that no one else had), so we romped home year after year through a combination of sales betterment and a strong marketing strategy. At one point were the 3rd biggest watch company in the country by sales (only behind Rolex and Omega) and top by volume by a country mile.

Because we were doing so terrifically well, one bright spark in our managerial structure decided that we should start punching out of our weight and bring out a [i]Signature [/i]range of watches that were pitched at £2-£3K range. Pretty much everyone in the business was horrified and correctly so because in hindsight was a massive failure. Now this wasn't down to the product being rubbish, it was because no one wanted to pay that amount of money for something they could buy a Rolex or Omega for. It didn't matter that these pieces looked great (albeit a bit too blingy in my eyes), or that they were handmade by watchmakers in Japan, or that they synchronised with the atomic clock or had diamonds or had crystal glass etc. no one bought them because they were overpriced and it cost the company a whole lot more than just money and we got our ass handed to us on a plate. It affected our market share, our reputation and standing in the sector. All because of strategy and one man's folly.

Now juxtaposition the Lowlander with the above and apply the same analogy.

The Lowlander is representative of the Signature range we did, because passion, commitment, workmanship, innovation don't necessarily come into things when you're in business. Maybe he can sell a dozen a year and live comfortably off the profits. Granted, he may only make/sell five of these basses and then consign the design to the bin, but ultimately he's an unknown luthier asking potential customers to stump up nearly £3K for a bass that kind of looks like a Thunderbird, but really isn't. £3K will buy you a lot of bass elsewhere and would likely go some way towards a 70s Gibson Bicentennial Thunderbird or a '60s model if that's your thing. Looking at his other models, the same applies. Custom shop prices for guitars that ape Precision, Jazzes and Strats, but aren't Fenders. This ultimately is my point, but I make no apology for you not being able to read that into my post.

I mean, credit to the guy for trying, but at the end of the day, he is pitching a £3K bass into a marketplace flooded with better(?) £3K basses; Spectors, Lulls (heh), Sadowsky, Warwick and so on. I think you can probably pick up an entry-level Fodera for that money too. And when you do actually pull that £3K bass out of it's case, the shock will be that you've paid £3K for something that people will squint at it and say, 'What the hell is that?'

I'll look forward to seeing how you get on with one if you decide to buy one, but suspect there won't be an order winging its way to Ballymena any time soon, but please feel free to prove me wrong.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1508760341' post='3394181']
OK, get a coffee.

For a decade plus, I worked for a very successful wristwatch company - if you search my posts you'll find out who they were easily enough and hey, you know I'm buying a Lull, so you you must have done your due diligence. Our product was pitched from the low end/catalogue business up to pieces with a retail price of c.£650/700. Largely because of one key piece of technology (that no one else had), so we romped home year after year through a combination of sales betterment and a strong marketing strategy. At one point were the 3rd biggest watch company in the country by sales (only behind Rolex and Omega) and top by volume by a country mile.

Because we were doing so terrifically well, one bright spark in our managerial structure decided that we should start punching out of our weight and bring out a [i]Signature [/i]range of watches that were pitched at £2-£3K range. Pretty much everyone in the business was horrified and correctly so because in hindsight was a massive failure. Now this wasn't down to the product being rubbish, it was because no one wanted to pay that amount of money for something they could buy a Rolex or Omega for. It didn't matter that these pieces looked great (albeit a bit too blingy in my eyes), or that they were handmade by watchmakers in Japan, or that they synchronised with the atomic clock or had diamonds or had crystal glass etc. no one bought them because they were overpriced and it cost the company a whole lot more than just money and we got our ass handed to us on a plate. It affected our market share, our reputation and standing in the sector. All because of strategy and one man's folly.

Now juxtaposition the Lowlander with the above and apply the same analogy.

The Lowlander is representative of the Signature range we did, because passion, commitment, workmanship, innovation don't necessarily come into things when you're in business. Maybe he can sell a dozen a year and live comfortably off the profits. Granted, he may only make/sell five of these basses and then consign the design to the bin, but ultimately he's an unknown luthier asking potential customers to stump up nearly £3K for a bass that kind of looks like a Thunderbird, but really isn't. £3K will buy you a lot of bass elsewhere and would likely go some way towards a 70s Gibson Bicentennial Thunderbird or a '60s model if that's your thing. Looking at his other models, the same applies. Custom shop prices for guitars that ape Precision, Jazzes and Strats, but aren't Fenders. This ultimately is my point, but I make no apology for you not being able to read that into my post.

I mean, credit to the guy for trying, but at the end of the day, he is pitching a £3K bass into a marketplace flooded with better(?) £3K basses; Spectors, Lulls (heh), Sadowsky, Warwick and so on. I think you can probably pick up an entry-level Fodera for that money too. And when you do actually pull that £3K bass out of it's case, the shock will be that you've paid £3K for something that people will squint at it and say, 'What the hell is that?'

I'll look forward to seeing how you get on with one if you decide to buy one, but suspect there won't be an order winging its way to Ballymena any time soon, but please feel free to prove me wrong.
[/quote]

Sander De Gier didn't just crawl out of the woodwork yesterday! He's been building and selling basses successfully for years AT THIS PRICE POINT. Much of what you say could be leveled at any luthier. Where would that leave us? Stuck at the mercy of the mass manufacturers!

You're right about one thing though - there won't be a Lowlander winging its way to Ballymena any time soon. Likely never. Much as I appreciate what has gone into the design, I'm not a fan of Thunderbirds at any price. I am giving SERIOUS consideration to one of his Soulmates though...

My issue isn't that you balk at De Gier's pricing, or the Lowlander design. It's that as a member of this forum you would wish a bass maker out of business the way you did with your original comment: "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sorry, but man alive, [b]with a sales strategy like that, this company needs to go down the toilet[/b]." If you can't see what is wrong with that statement I personally don't see any point talking to you further.[/font][/color]

[Hellzero]

Please stop this typical forum war, it's stupid.

Some people don't know anything about (foreign) luthiers and their names and work. Sander De Gier is a real good one : his instruments emerge only after a real deep thinking. He is a fan of the Thunderbird and wanted to make an hommage, nothing else, but he also wanted to correct the defaults of this bass because he also is a bass player. He did a terrific work and to me that's worth mentioning. If I mention another luthier's name like Christophe Leduc, I'm quite sure quite nobody knows him in the UK, but he is a major actor on the market being considered a true master by his fellow luthiers and having lots of patents for his instruments. Shall I mention Reiner and Meik Dobbratz, sure quite nobody knows them but they are making the best ergonomic basses called LeFay. And I can go on forever... It's not because you don't know a luthier that he is completely unknown, just think about that.

For the 2015 Thunderbird I mentioned earlier, it was Gibson attempt to make a better one on every aspect, but it's a real disaster to me : https://www.musicstore.de/en_GB/GBP/Gibson-Thunderbird-Bass-2015-VS-Vintage-Sunburst/art-BAS0007626-000

I would really prefer paying the same amount for the Lowlander than any Gibson 2015 Thunderbird or any other especially vintage ones (but it's another debate).

I had a De Gier Elevation 6 which was close to perfection, but it's previous owner wanted it back so much that it finally returned to him, but I'm missing it...

[NancyJohnson]

If it helps, I didn't like the 2015 Thunderbird either, but it really wasn't the disaster you've described it as either.

[No lust in Jazz]

Well I've ordered one.