Sire marcus miller p7

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Your last statement.....nah, ill give it one gig if that lol. 

Nah - it's going to be a really nice alternative to my other couple of regular gigging basses. And it has the honour of being least expensive of my herd which makes it just perfect for CV laden East London pubs.

Remind me what the issue was on yours, that meant that it didn't last more than one gig? 

[dave_bass5]

Just now, Al Krow said:

Nah - it's going to be a really nice alternative to my other couple of regular gigging basses. And it has the honour of being least expensive of my herd which makes it just perfect for CV laden East London pubs.

Remind me what the issue was on yours, that meant that it didn't last more than one gig? 

My first (and current Sire) was gigged for almost two years, almost every weekend.  Easily 30+ gigs. The P7 was faulty and lasted less than two weeks. Never gigged it, never even rehearsed with it. Was still debating another when the BB425 came up. You know my feelings about the P7 i had as far as liking it.  Maybe when we all get back to normal ill try again. 

[Al Krow]

Was just wanting a reminder about what the fault was on your P7 - to make sure I don't have the same on mine!

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Was just wanting a reminder about what the fault was on your P7 - to make sure I don't have the same on mine!

IIR it was when playing the open D and G. This produced a noticeable  drop in volume compared to the fretted version, and only when both pups were on. Each pup was fine on its own. Definitely not a set up issue, and really only noticeable when played with a pick. 

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

IIR it was when playing the open D and G. This produced a noticeable  drop in volume compared to the fretted version, and only when both pups were on. Each pup was fine on its own. Definitely not a set up issue, and really only noticeable when played with a pick. 

Interesting - you'll have noted that my initial impression was of the P+J together sounding a little 'insipid' which seems to be a variation (but obviously not exactly the same) of what you were getting. 

But the P pup by itself is just great and doesn't need a blended J in the way a lot of us do as 'standard' on our Yammy PJs.

[dave_bass5]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting - you'll have noted that my initial impression was of the P+J together sounding a little 'insipid' which seems to be a variation (but obviously not exactly the same) of what you were getting. 

But the P pup by itself is just great and doesn't need a blended J in the way a lot of us do as 'standard' on our Yammy PJs.

Yes, it could well be a ‘feature’ of these basses. Cant say I’ve noticed it with the Yamahas though, nor any PJ Ive played before. In hindsight I hardly ever use my basses in PJ mode so I could have lived with it, but it was not something I’d except to have to on a £500 bass. 

[Al Krow]

17 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yes, it could well be a ‘feature’ of these basses. Cant say I’ve noticed it with the Yamahas though, nor any PJ Ive played before. In hindsight I hardly ever use my basses in PJ mode so I could have lived with it, but it was not something I’d except to have to on a £500 bass. 

There is actually a technical reason for this I believe (although you'll need someone a few levels above my pay grade to explain the precise details!) - when combining pups whether it's P+J on the Sire or J+J on my Ibby you often seem to get a mid scooping effect, which can result in a sweeter tone (certainly the case on the Ibby - less so on the Sire) but is less punchy for the same reason.

Have to agree it's not an issue on the Yammy PJ pups - but maybe that's 'cos they're pretty hot?

Edited March 17, 2020 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

There is actually a technical reason for this I believe (although you'll need someone a few levels above my pay grade to explain the precise details!) - when combining pups whether it's P+J on the Sire or J+J on my Ibby you often seem to get a mid scooping effect, which can result in a sweeter tone (certainly the case on the Ibby - less so on the Sire) but is less punchy for the same reason.

Have to agree it's not an issue on the Yammy PJ pups - but maybe that's 'cos they're pretty hot?

I’m aware of the effect when these pups are combined, ive had a couple of PJs in the past, but this wasnt so much a loss of the mids, but a full on drop in volume, and only those two strings. Definitely the PJ effect, but not in s way that was expected. 

I did feel the P on its own really nailed the P tone, even more than the Yamahas. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by dave_bass5

[krispn]

15 hours ago, Al Krow said:

There is actually a technical reason for this I believe (although you'll need someone a few levels above my pay grade to explain the precise details!) - when combining pups whether it's P+J on the Sire or J+J on my Ibby you often seem to get a mid scooping effect, which can result in a sweeter tone (certainly the case on the Ibby - less so on the Sire) but is less punchy for the same reason.

Have to agree it's not an issue on the Yammy PJ pups - but maybe that's 'cos they're pretty hot?

P basses are generally considered as being more mid forward due to the pick up placement. 
Jazz basses are generally know for their scooped mid slap friendly/rock band friendly tone as the ‘scoop’ sit either side of crunchy mid forward guitars. Obviously a jazz can do the bridge pick up thing etc but in general terms that’s the ‘signature sound’ of each bass in its most basic terms. 

Any two pick up bass will have that scoop to a varying degree irrespective of pick up type dual MM, JJ, PP and combinations thereof. Nordstrand have a great demo of the Bigman pick up with three way switch and the difference in the MM style pick up from single back coil to single front coil is clearly audible and that’s in a MM pick up!!

Edited March 18, 2020 by krispn

[krispn]

I think the Yamaha BB's have ceramic mags versus the AlNiCo in the 735 so the newer range with the AlNiCo pick ups would tend to sound more vintage. I recall a talking point from the older BB fans was that the new pick ups were more 'tame' (which could mean vintage, lower output, weaker etc.) while those who weren;t so keen on the older BB's felt that they were OTT and didn't sound like their Fenders. Go figure!  Having had some recent experience of ceramic mag pick ups in a p bass they're very up front and certainly have their place but defo not vintage by any stretch!

 

[Cuzzie]

9 minutes ago, krispn said:

I think the Yamaha BB's have ceramic mags versus the AlNiCo in the 735 so the newer range with the AlNiCo pick ups would tend to sound more vintage. I recall a talking point from the older BB fans was that the new pick ups were more 'tame' (which could mean vintage, lower output, weaker etc.) while those who weren;t so keen on the older BB's felt that they were OTT and didn't sound like their Fenders. Go figure!  Having had some recent experience of ceramic mag pick ups in a p bass they're very up front and certainly have their place but defo not vintage by any stretch!

 

Even amongst AlNiCo versions there is variance and then there is also polarity and orientation of magnets, pole piece material, windings, how it’s wound etc. which will give Variance

[Rich]

I adore my V7, it's very much my go-to gigging bass these days -- but for my current gigs, a PJ would be of more use than a JJ... some songs really need that P pickup punch. Unfortunately I can't afford a P7 and I don't want to sell my V7... so I'm thinking of modifying it by enlarging the neck pickup cavity in such a way that I could fit either a P or J pickup depending on what I need for a particular gig. Screw connectors could make the wiring changes easier. Obvs I'd also need to get a new custom pickguard made too, but this and the current pickguard would both conceal the resultant funny-shaped rout. This is all quite theoretical at the moment bu t I can't see why it wouldn't work. Flaws, anyone?
I might look into this during this upcoming enforced gig-free period. 

Sorry for the thread hijack  

[dave_bass5]

5 minutes ago, Rich said:

I adore my V7, it's very much my go-to gigging bass these days -- but for my current gigs, a PJ would be of more use than a JJ... some songs really need that P pickup punch. Unfortunately I can't afford a P7 and I don't want to sell my V7... so I'm thinking of modifying it by enlarging the neck pickup cavity in such a way that I could fit either a P or J pickup depending on what I need for a particular gig.

 

This is the mod i had done on my Lakland DJ5. I also had Nordstrands put in. Nice to have the pickguard covering the cavity so i could use either P or Jazz.

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Rich said:

I adore my V7, it's very much my go-to gigging bass these days -- but for my current gigs, a PJ would be of more use than a JJ... some songs really need that P pickup punch. Unfortunately I can't afford a P7 and I don't want to sell my V7... so I'm thinking of modifying it by enlarging the neck pickup cavity in such a way that I could fit either a P or J pickup depending on what I need for a particular gig. Screw connectors could make the wiring changes easier. Obvs I'd also need to get a new custom pickguard made too, but this and the current pickguard would both conceal the resultant funny-shaped rout. This is all quite theoretical at the moment bu t I can't see why it wouldn't work. Flaws, anyone?
I might look into this during this upcoming enforced gig-free period. 

Sorry for the thread hijack  

Hardly a thread hijack. More like a good point! 

Only hesitation is aren't you going to knock a chunk of value off by making the mod, purely from the aesthetics, or will judicious use of PGs provide 'cover' should you wish to resale (obviously whilst not hiding the fact from a purchaser). Or is this a non point 'cos you're not planning on selling the bass ever 'cos it's such a good one.

2 days in I'm still liking mine - lol! 

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Only hesitation is aren't you going to knock a chunk of value off by making the mod, purely from the aesthetics, or will judicious use of PGs provide 'cover' should you wish to resale (obviously whilst not hiding the fact from a purchaser). Or is this a non point 'cos you're not planning on selling the bass ever 'cos it's such a good one.
 

If I did ever sell it, I would point it out to the buyer and would tout its versatility as a real positive virtue. But as you say, it's a bit of a non-point... I don't intend to sell it at all, especially if I do make this mod and it works well.

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

2 days in I'm still liking mine - lol! 
 

Excellent. Long may it continue. I'm 5 years into my V7 now and still think it's one of my very best bass purchases ever. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of other 5 string J-type basses I've played that I prefer.

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Rich said:

If I did ever sell it, I would point it out to the buyer and would tout its versatility as a real positive virtue. But as you say, it's a bit of a non-point... I don't intend to sell it at all, especially if I do make this mod and it works well.

Excellent. Long may it continue. I'm 5 years into my V7 now and still think it's one of my very best bass purchases ever. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of other 5 string J-type basses I've played that I prefer.

That is serious praise indeed.

I sensed that these gen 2 Sires were punching well above their price point and that comment certainly confirms it!

Edited March 18, 2020 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

32 minutes ago, Rich said:

If I did ever sell it, I would point it out to the buyer and would tout its versatility as a real positive virtue. But as you say, it's a bit of a non-point... I don't intend to sell it at all, especially if I do make this mod and it works well.

Excellent. Long may it continue. I'm 5 years into my V7 now and still think it's one of my very best bass purchases ever. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of other 5 string J-type basses I've played that I prefer.

Same here. Cost me £375. Cant imagine ever selling mine either. Not only a good 5 string, but it does the Jazz bass sound better than most jazz basses ive played since getting it.

[uk_lefty]

On 13/03/2020 at 11:26, Al Krow said:

 

 

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Same here. Cost me £375. Cant imagine ever selling mine either. Not only a good 5 string, but it does the Jazz bass sound better than most jazz basses ive played since getting it.

I listened back to a gig I did almost exclusively with my first generation V7 Vintage 5er with maple board. Great sounding bass. Am really keen for another Sire, shouldn't have sold it. Luckily they look after lefties so well there's always loads around with loads of options. 

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, uk_lefty said:

 

I listened back to a gig I did almost exclusively with my first generation V7 Vintage 5er with maple board. Great sounding bass. Am really keen for another Sire, shouldn't have sold it. Luckily they look after lefties so well there's always loads around with loads of options. 

Yeah, and Andertons seem to have a lot of fretless versions as well. Might be tempted to pick up a 4 string P7 fretless if i dont get back out gigging soon. Always wanted a fretless but never actually needed one.

My V7 replaced a Yamaha TRBX505 (my first ever Yamaha) and i was much happier with the B string on the Sire.

[Tvrtastic]

I modded my v7, putting in a Kent Armstrong pup. Best thing I ever did. 
 

just a bit of routing and new pic guard. 
 

Made really good, better. 

[CameronJ]

35 minutes ago, Tvrtastic said:

I modded my v7, putting in a Kent Armstrong pup. Best thing I ever did. 
 

just a bit of routing and new pic guard. 
 

Made really good, better. 

Curious. Any sound demos of the new pickup soloed and blended with the Bridge J pickup?

[mcnach]

23 hours ago, Al Krow said:

There is actually a technical reason for this I believe (although you'll need someone a few levels above my pay grade to explain the precise details!) - when combining pups whether it's P+J on the Sire or J+J on my Ibby you often seem to get a mid scooping effect, which can result in a sweeter tone (certainly the case on the Ibby - less so on the Sire) but is less punchy for the same reason.

Have to agree it's not an issue on the Yammy PJ pups - but maybe that's 'cos they're pretty hot?

 

You can also drastically change the effect you get with both pickups on by changing the pickup heights. Not just relatively to each other, but if you bring both down or up, keeping them balanced, the mids will be affected differently. It's been a couple of times the difference between me going "ugh" and "oh yes"... Experiment!

Nice looking bass.

[Tvrtastic]

11 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

Curious. Any sound demos of the new pickup soloed and blended with the Bridge J pickup?

Current dead strings makes me shy. 

However, if you can be bothered to dig through this thread I posted two clips on soundcloud. 
 

second clip is fingers but I tend to play hard. 

It has to be said, the Sire bridge pup struggled with volume against the HB and I struggled to hear it when mixed. 
 

So I got Kent/Aaron to make me a hot jazz to replace. Much better, and give me a great tonal pallet. Only use passive now! 
 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/sire-bass-club.1144219/page-487

 

 

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, CameronJ said:

Curious. Any sound demos of the new pickup soloed and blended with the Bridge J pickup?

Hello, stranger!

[CameronJ]

20 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Hello, stranger!

Why hello!