Tape positions on your fingerboard?

[kembo_dee]

Hello,

I have a Stagg EUB and chromatic tuner, I'm teaching myself.

Last week I phoned nearly every music shop I could find open, to see if they could sell me some fingerboard tape. (I learned the violin in the 70's when I was 5 or 6 and remember having coloured tape on the fingerboard)

Some shops said it doesn't exist and others patronised me and said it was bad practice to use markings. But I was told in a guitar shop that when doing professional jazz recordings most fretless bass and upright double bassists will use tape or dot markings for accuracy?

So apart from ebay [url="http://tinyurl.com/5e26zm"]ebay fingerboard tape results[/url]
the only place I could find some, does anyone know where to find some fingerboard tape, that comes off easily but doesn't slide around when it gets warm. I did try easy remove Scotch tape but it slid about.

cheers

Kembo

I'll be going to the Bass Day tomorrow too!! Will there be tickets left?

[TPJ]

I'd make an effort to not use tape. Have some lessons, that will help. Also, get something like the Abersol's to play along with to help intonation.

I don't believe Ray Brown, Marc Johnson, Mingus, Christian McBride etc... would tape their basses for recording. All you have to do is listen to their live recordings to hear that they have great intonation which comes from good technique.

I'm hoping there are tickets at the door. Hopefully ok. I'm going with my mate who is playing and would be disappointed if I can't get in.
A long wet day in Manchester if not

[wotnwhy]

when i learnt violin as a child they used little coloured round stickers that are available from and craft or stationary supply shop.

[Lemuel Beam]

I added dot markers to my cheapie starter upright by drilling 1mm dia holes in the side of the finger board for "frets" 3, 5 and 7, and filling with white filler - pretty unobtrusive, and easy to reverse. Positioning them is the tricky bit. Tuning must be spot on; I found that bowed strings are easier to check than pizz..
Any markers are only an "aide memoir" however - in the long run you need to develop a left hand technique that doesn't involve peering at the fingerboard

Mick

[BassBus]

It's all very well saying great intonation comes from good technique but that leaves the question 'how do you get good technique if you don't know where the notes are'? Todd Phillips recommended making marks with a pencil on the side of the finger board. These can be placed at the harmonic points, ie. 3rd, 5th, 7th 'frets' etc. Given time your hand will develop good muscle memory and you will quite naturally not need to look at the fingerboard for reference. The pencil marks will also wear away and you'll forget about them because you don't need them anymore.

[kembo_dee]

[quote name='BassBus' post='325567' date='Nov 9 2008, 10:28 PM']It's all very well saying great intonation comes from good technique but that leaves the question 'how do you get good technique if you don't know where the notes are'? Todd Phillips recommended making marks with a pencil on the side of the finger board. These can be placed at the harmonic points, ie. 3rd, 5th, 7th 'frets' etc. Given time your hand will develop good muscle memory and you will quite naturally not need to look at the fingerboard for reference. The pencil marks will also wear away and you'll forget about them because you don't need them anymore.[/quote]


Thanks for the advice everyone.

kembo

[TPJ]

[quote name='BassBus' post='325567' date='Nov 9 2008, 10:28 PM']It's all very well saying great intonation comes from good technique but that leaves the question 'how do you get good technique if you don't know where the notes are'?[/quote]

Chicken and egg really. Lessons will get your fundamental positions, practice will get you intonation.

[synaesthesia]

forget using tape... try a soft pencil. You can mark your fingerboard with sort marks or full lines and you look at it only when you need to and it cleans off easily. Temporary marks, get your intonation and ear up to scratch and you'd be fine.

[Beedster]

[quote name='BassBus' post='325567' date='Nov 9 2008, 10:28 PM']It's all very well saying great intonation comes from good technique but that leaves the question 'how do you get good technique if you don't know where the notes are'?[/quote]

That's what your ears are for . I've read many opinions on this issue and still believe that whilst tape/markers will aid technique, they will not develop musicianship. I found that when I had a lined fretless I focused too much on looking at where the fingers were as opposed to listening for whether the note was correct, and to my mind it's the latter that's the better skill to possess. I'm not saying it's wrong to mark the board - of course it's not - but I am saying that by doing so you do, to an extent, limit your learning.
Chris

[Beer of the Bass]

Another vote for the pencil.
I used 8B pencil marks on the upper positions for a little while, until they wore off. I think pencil is the way to go if you want to do this, as it's only a very temporary crutch. I found that while the marks lasted, it gave me that little bit of extra confidence to start moving around positions a little more, and once you've got to that point, you'll quickly stop needing it. The trick is having the willpower not to keep re-applying it!

Edited November 11, 2008 by Beer of the Bass

[Alun]

I'd go for pencil too - used it on my fretless when I started. Haven't used it on my upright as I have an NS Wav which is littered with dots As a result, I've got used to the positions and am reasonably accurate now on regular upright.

Cheers
Alun

[jakenewmanbass]

Ultimately your ears should be the judge of whether you are in tune as your eyes are nowhere near sensitive enough to judge from spatial awareness alone whether or not you are in tune.
So IMO don't waste time training your eyes to marks, train your ears to sound.

[Beedster]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='327244' date='Nov 12 2008, 01:58 AM']Ultimately your ears should be the judge of whether you are in tune as your eyes are nowhere near sensitive enough to judge from spatial awareness alone whether or not you are in tune.
So IMO don't waste time training your eyes to marks, train your ears to sound.[/quote]

What he said

[bassace]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='327244' date='Nov 12 2008, 01:58 AM']Ultimately your ears should be the judge of whether you are in tune as your eyes are nowhere near sensitive enough to judge from spatial awareness alone whether or not you are in tune.
So IMO don't waste time training your eyes to marks, train your ears to sound.[/quote]

Quite right, of course. But an occcasional reality check doesn't harm. I got one of my basses upstairs recently and carefully put three dots on the side of the fingerboard using an electronic tuner. It told me that I had been playing C on the G string about a quarter tone flat. It was a case of 'so that's where it should be!'.

I got into an argument with a recording engineer some time ago who insisted that I was playing a bit out of tune. I disagreed with him until I heard the playback. So our (elderly) ears can be fallible sometimes.

[ardi100]

+1 for a pencil. I put marks on the 5th and 7th fret markers and they wore off as I learned to hear them properly. A week or two and I didn't need them anymore.

(and I just put them on again cause I've taken up the DB after a long layoff and needed to!)

[kembo_dee]

[quote name='ardi100' post='327583' date='Nov 12 2008, 01:43 PM']+1 for a pencil. I put marks on the 5th and 7th fret markers and they wore off as I learned to hear them properly. A week or two and I didn't need them anymore.

(and I just put them on again cause I've taken up the DB after a long layoff and needed to!)[/quote]

Hi sorry to be a nuisance, has anyone got the time to upload a picture of their fingerboard with pencil markings on?

Thanks

Kema

Off topic: Bassday: Richard Bona, TM Stevens, Hadrien Feraud amazing !!

[Gareth Hughes]

Here's my solution -use a tuner to pinpoint the note, then a small artists paintbrush to apply two small dots at that position. (two dots so as to show the rough ballpark you're in, as finger width, exact point of finger hitting string, etc varies) and then some clear nail varnish to keep them in place. All reversible if need-be.

I've been playing upright professionally for ten years and I'm still happy to use them, no matter what stigma arises. Here's why - (and I'm paraphrasing an old quote from a Bass Player mag interview) - "I get paid to play the right notes, the artist doesn't care how I get them."

Of course you're gonna need to practice to learn where each finger needs to go etc, and learn the minute differences between slightly flat and in tune BUT all that can go out the window the moment you're onstage and guitars, cymbals, vocals, etc start eating up the sonic space that defines your note pitch. Some gigs are great for hearing yourself, others are not. On those gigs the dots help get you through.

No amount of dots can tell you the right thing to play tho, or can develop the stamina you need for your hands to last a two hour gig on the upright.

I play fretted electric bass too, but somehow no one seems to mind the dots there.


[quote name='kembo_dee' post='328723' date='Nov 13 2008, 11:35 PM']Hi sorry to be a nuisance, has anyone got the time to upload a picture of their fingerboard with pencil markings on?

Thanks

Kema

Off topic: Bassday: Richard Bona, TM Stevens, Hadrien Feraud amazing !![/quote]

Edited November 19, 2008 by Gareth Hughes

[benbastin]

Personally i'd avoid any kind of markings. There are too many variables, such as the angle of the bass to you (it being such a large instrument) and also a double bass, (i pressume this is true for EUB) is not intonated at the bridge, which allows for the notes to be in exactly the same place at each position. There will be tiny discrepancies between strings, not massive but still important.

If you do use anything, go for the pencil as others have said, because you don't want to rely on it forever. Ive had students come when they are already totally reliant on the markers, and unable to stop using them.

I'd also suggest getting the simandle bass method. It explains a very good system for finger placement. (there are many other methods, but i believe it works bet IMO) If you can get a teacher, even if its just to get you started, just a couple of lessons.

[kembo_dee]

Hi Everyone, I got a reply from Peter Tambroni at www.mostlybass.com really helpful.

check out his site.

[url="http://petertambroni.com/mostlybass_wp/?p=366#comments"]http://petertambroni.com/mostlybass_wp/?p=366#comments[/url]

[velvetkevorkian]

He gets extra point for the "rants" section....

"I (we) enjoy playing this giant instrument. I don’t wish I played the flute, piccolo, or clarinet.... When you see a bassist in the elevator with his bass think twice before you make some joke that all of us have heard dozens of time. You’re not the first to say it no matter how smart you think you are."

[Godfrey]

Like Alun I have an NS Design EUB which has cascading (their word, not mine) dots all the way down. I found them useful to get me in the right place whilst learning but even now, although I very rarely have to look at them when playing, if my ears tell me that I've drifted I find a glance at them helps to correct things quickly. I'm a dots fan!

[Huge Hands]

Ahem.

Being the proud owner of an inexpensive Gear 4 Music bass, I used Tippex.

I guess I really have no respect for technique or tradition!

[tauzero]

[quote name='Godfrey' post='346438' date='Dec 5 2008, 02:16 PM']Like Alun I have an NS Design EUB which has cascading (their word, not mine) dots all the way down. I found them useful to get me in the right place whilst learning but even now, although I very rarely have to look at them when playing, if my ears tell me that I've drifted I find a glance at them helps to correct things quickly. I'm a dots fan![/quote]
I had a Palatino before the WAV-4 - the Palatino has no dots at all anywhere. I needed reference points so got some little adhesive "jewels" and put those on at 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th and 15th positions. I find the WAV-4 has a visually confusing excess of dots.

[Pookus]

When I first started to learn DB, I drilled tiny holes up the side of the finger board and filled them with enamel paint. I no longer need them so have filled the markers with ebony Brummer (filler).