A guitarist is auditioned and can't take a "no thanks"

[gjones]

[quote name='steantval' timestamp='1509006526' post='3395900']
I cannot understand why you would go to these lengths and fib to the guy, there are usually only two outcomes for someone auditioning, you either get the job or you don't.
People need to toughen up a bit, there is too much molly coddling around the possibility of upsetting people in situations like this.
Rejection is part of life, it happens everyday to people who apply for jobs, get to final interview stage and fail to get the role.
[/quote]

The guitarist in my present band was once threatened with decapitation by a drummer he sacked.

The same drummer ended up in my band and felt that I was sabotaging him. He really did have deep seated, psychological, problems, including psychotic delusions of persecution, for which he was taking medication.

In the end he was sacked, onstage, in the middle of a gig.

Not the most diplomatic way of doing things.

Luckily he didn't kill us all.

You never know who you are dealing with. Better safe than sorry. Being nice doesn't cost anything.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1508967768' post='3395759']
Drummer writes a simple message to him along the lines of "thank you, but we think you're not what we're after, good luck, etc". Nothing offensive or anything.

[b]Then the guy just went on and on about how we feel threatened because he is better, and he's got so much experience, etc etc.[/b]
He sounded insane.
He was a little odd in person, but after I saw that... I was very glad we didn't waste any more time with him. Seven or eight messages later, he disappeared. I hope for good.

[/quote]

When I read this bit, I had to stop and check the location under your picture - I know a guy who used to respond in exactly this way to any perceived slight against his playing, but he lives in North London, last I heard!

Before this chap got himself banned from most of the blues jams in the centre of town, he did approach a singer I knew and asked if she wanted to work with him. When she politely declined, he apparently told her she was turning down "the opportunity of a lifetime"!

I've also heard that his greatest claim to fame is almost being punched by blues impresario Ian Siegal.

[uk_lefty]

I've had it in the last few years with a drummer. An odd guy, harmless but odd, who just didn't get the concept of what the band wanted to do, despite having a good ten or twelve song set list. I've seen him about since in rehearsal rooms, up to the same tricks... Going off and spending ages complaining about bits of kit etc. for the whole night while the band waits for him, being the loudest voice in the whole building regardless of everyone else.
The band leader at the time handled a polite rejection well and just felt that the guy was looking for some friends and some recognition. A bit sad really as he was an ok drummer, just not someone you want to have in a group with you for the incessant talking, having to be centre stage (literally, wanted his drum kit front and centre for gigs with the band behind him) despite it still being his try-out, and not listening or understanding what the rest of us were trying to put together.

[ricksterphil]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1509009706' post='3395937']
The guitarist in my present band was once threatened with decapitation by a drummer he sacked.

The same drummer ended up in my band and felt that I was sabotaging him. He really did have deep seated, psychological, problems, including psychotic delusions of persecution, for which he was taking medication.

[u][size=5][b][size=6]In the end he was sacked, onstage, in the middle of a gig.[/size][/b][/size][/u]

Not the most diplomatic way of doing things.

Luckily he didn't kill us all.

You never know who you are dealing with. Better safe than sorry. Being nice doesn't cost anything.
[/quote]

Sacked in the middle of a gig.......that's hardcore!

Best defence against getting sacked....own the PA and drive a large comfortable van!....or so I'm told...I've never been sacked from a band cos I'm awesome and perfect

[uk_lefty]

I think also we have most of us met that type of musician and so I am very keen not to come across as that type when suggesting songs or arrangements in my band, I try to do it in as respectful and non ego way as possible. And I will suggest songs with rubbish bass parts if it fits the band.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1509004146' post='3395872']
You know the rule - if you haven't met one - it's you!


[/quote]

Brilliant.
Feck me i haven't met any ................damn !!!!!

Dave

[Marc S]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1509007005' post='3395905']


especially if it's a new band and there was no previous guitarist... although for that reason I love the suggestion. The thing is I did not know he was like that until we told him. Had I known this is how he'd take it, oh yes... I'd use that line and stand back with pop corn.
[/quote]

You have popcorn? I want to be in your band....
And I won't take "no" for an answer

[mrtcat]

Never had this with guitarists or any other musicians but had similar experiences with girls I dated when I was younger. I seemed to attract proper nut jobs who were really pretty and seemed fine right up until first or second date where they'd suddenly morph into total head cases.

There is a singer round our way who regularly goes "live" on Facebook taking requests which he then sings acapella or along to keyboard. He's bloody awful but clearly thinks he's absolutely brilliant.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1509006912' post='3395903']
Indeed... but it takes a while to recover from the experience...
[/quote]

Yes. You are safe enough venting your frustration here among friends.

[mikel]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1509002256' post='3395852']
I would have rephrased the message you sent, in order to prevent his ego being bruised. After all nobody likes rejection.

I would have said that the original guitarist has decided to rejoin the band and tell the auditioner that they were amazing and thank them for their time.

Guitarists have fragile egos at the best of times. It's best to treat them gently.
[/quote]

That would stroke his ego but not help his chances of getting into a band in the future. The original "No thanks" was fine, nothing derogatory or misleading. If it gets him to ask himself why he didnt get the job, what he could have done better etc it will be a help. If you tell him he was great, when he was not, then he will simply keep doing what he is doing and get nowhere.

[JapanAxe]

Nobody has yet mentioned the 'sh!t sandwich' approach to turning someone down. Example:

Bread (good): You certainly have your playing chops together
Filling (sh!t): But I don't think you are the right fit for this band
Bread (more good): With your ability and enthusiasm it shouldn't be long before you find the right band

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1509005294' post='3395887']
I keep meaning to go on Guitarchat, if there is one, to find out what they say about bass players
[/quote]

Good luck with that. I tried to infiltrate a drummers' forum earlier in the year to get some insight but they sussed me out straight away!

I'm still laughing at the suggestion that the guitarist should be told "You were amazing". It doesn't matter that you were amazed by how much of a cock he was as long as you can deliver those words and keep a straight face. Nobody is offended and all parties can move on without impediment. You still have to lie about the old guitarist wanting to come back though.

I find it difficult to lie even if telling a white one. I go a bit Sheldon;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKBc_Y2FibM

[mcnach]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1509007530' post='3395912']
It's a chance you take going to an audition. I've failed auditions, been sacked from bands - sometimes politely, sometimes not. It's all part of the fun. It's character building I suppose. Whenever I've had to reject or sack someone myself it's rarely been personal so I wouldn't take being on the other end that way myself.

The best thing to have in music is a bit of humility. People who think they are the greatest are best avoided.
[/quote]

Well summed up.

The best player/musician in the world is nothing if you can't be comfortable around them. When you think of all the hours you must spend together, having at least a character than doesn't rub people the wrong way is a must. Someone who is going to be too precious about what they do which you can't criticise for fear of offending them... nah. Life's too short.

Incidentally, a good proportion of the very best musicians I've met have one thing in common: they're really humble and down to earth. Human first, musician second.

[mcnach]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1509008653' post='3395928']
I've had dealings with lunatic musicians with fragile egos before (a particular Edinburgh drummer who shall remain nameless). Now I just assume all musicians are potential psychopaths.

It's safer that way.
[/quote]

[mcnach]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1509009706' post='3395937']
The guitarist in my present band was once threatened with decapitation by a drummer he sacked.

The same drummer ended up in my band and felt that I was sabotaging him. He really did have deep seated, psychological, problems, including psychotic delusions of persecution, for which he was taking medication.

In the end he was sacked, onstage, in the middle of a gig.

Not the most diplomatic way of doing things.

Luckily he didn't kill us all.

You never know who you are dealing with. Better safe than sorry. Being nice doesn't cost anything.
[/quote]

wow...

Next time I'm looking for a drummer, if I don;'t know them personally I may send you a PM to check. I mean, drummers are crazy enough when they're SANE!

[mcnach]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1509010224' post='3395940']
When I read this bit, I had to stop and check the location under your picture - I know a guy who used to respond in exactly this way to any perceived slight against his playing, but he lives in North London, last I heard!

Before this chap got himself banned from most of the blues jams in the centre of town, he did approach a singer I knew and asked if she wanted to work with him. When she politely declined, he apparently told her she was turning down "the opportunity of a lifetime"!

I've also heard that his greatest claim to fame is almost being punched by blues impresario Ian Siegal.
[/quote]


Well, the guy is English and has travelled a bit... it could still be him. He certainly favours blues...

Ian Siegal!!! I met him when he was playing in a small bar in Madrid many years agom and loved it! Not many people (it's a curious bar which closes the doors to customers when the tables are full, so it's never crazy busy and makes for a nice cozy atmosphere, almost personal)... My brother and I were one of the very few who could speak/understand English fluently, and when he realised that his chat went over the heads of most people but us, it was like having him playing just for the two of us. Cool guy. Chatted a bit afterwards. If Ian almost punched him... I lean towards Ian's side

[mcnach]

[quote name='ricksterphil' timestamp='1509010310' post='3395943']
Sacked in the middle of a gig.......that's hardcore!

Best defence against getting sacked....own the PA and drive a large comfortable van!....or so I'm told...I've never been sacked from a band cos I'm awesome and perfect
[/quote]

you'll still get sack... only after the gig when the band is at home

[mcnach]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1509010856' post='3395952']
You have popcorn? I want to be in your band....
And I won't take "no" for an answer
[/quote]

Do you have your own microwave oven to bring to rehearsals?

[markdavid]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1508967768' post='3395759']
Then the guy just went on and on about how we feel threatened because he is better, and he's got so much experience, etc etc.
He sounded insane.
[/quote] I would have told him he was right and that we did feel threatened because he was so good

[mcnach]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1509011468' post='3395963']
Nobody has yet mentioned the 'sh!t sandwich' approach to turning someone down. Example:

Bread (good): You certainly have your playing chops together
Filling (sh!t): But I don't think you are the right fit for this band
Bread (more good): With your ability and enthusiasm it shouldn't be long before you find the right band
[/quote]

sh*t sandwich!
That's incidentally pretty much how the message went... only the last bread was phrased more along the lines of wishing him the best in the future and that he'll find the right band soon etc.

Then he exploded.

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1509020368' post='3396066']

wow...

Next time I'm looking for a drummer, if I don;'t know them personally I may send you a PM to check. I mean, drummers are crazy enough when they're SANE!
[/quote]

The only drummer I've had that needed medical supervision fortunately wasn't violent. He was a mate of the singer who apparently knew about the mental health issues (and didn't feel the need to mention them to the rest of us) but the worst we ever suffered was him forgetting that we'd already booked a rehearsal studio, so he booked a completely different one in a different town and went there instead. More than once. In fact it became a bit of a long running joke - if the drummer was late we'd ring the other studio to see if he was there.

In the end he just went missing for a bit so we didn't even need to sack him, we just started looking for a new drummer as nobody had heard from the old one for a few weeks. Turned out he'd stopped taking his meds. Shame, as he was a really nice guy when he was making sense and pretty good drummer...but oddly had a terrible memory for how the songs went.

We did then sack the singer, but not for anything to do with the drummer

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1509020621' post='3396071']


Well, the guy is English and has travelled a bit... it could still be him. He certainly favours blues...

Ian Siegal!!! I met him when he was playing in a small bar in Madrid many years agom and loved it! Not many people (it's a curious bar which closes the doors to customers when the tables are full, so it's never crazy busy and makes for a nice cozy atmosphere, almost personal)... My brother and I were one of the very few who could speak/understand English fluently, and when he realised that his chat went over the heads of most people but us, it was like having him playing just for the two of us. Cool guy. Chatted a bit afterwards. If Ian almost punched him... I lean towards Ian's side
[/quote]

His name isn't the same as a geographical feature which might be found above a beach or coastline, is it?

Yeah, the Ian Siegal story should be taken with a pinch of salt as I got it second-hand from a friend, who'd was already hanging around the London blues jam circuit back when Ian was still hosting one of the more popular ones. Apparently this guitarist (let's call him Geographical Feature) was a regular and notorious over-player at this jam. One night, Ian put a new punter up to play guitar alongside Geographical, and the new punter assumed that the other players might be as polite as he was, and would solo for one or two turnarounds before passing over to somebody else.

Not Geographical. In the time it took for the V7 chord to resolve to the root, his face apparently went from full-on lead guitar gurn to shocked and appalled as this greenhorn started to play - didn't he realise that Geographical was entitled to at least four turnarounds to fully express his musical vision? After the set, Geographical dragged this poor chap outside to remonstrate with him. Word got around to Ian that things seemed to be kicking off, and he thought it best to come to the new punter's aid.

My friend happened to be near the door when Ian stormed back in.
"You will not BELIEVE what that ***** said to me." Ian fumed to him.
My friend invited Ian to indulge his curiosity.
"He said, 'all these new people are just tourists. I'm a bluesman.'"
Geographical nipped back in, avoiding any eye contact, packed up his guitar and scarpered. My friend believed that Ian had told the guy to sling his hook before he thumped him.

So yeah, even though I wasn't there to witness things first-hand, I found myself on Ian's side too. Especially any time I bumped into Geographical playing at another blues jam.

[ricksterphil]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1509020694' post='3396072']

you'll still get sack... only after the gig when the band is at home
[/quote]

You've heard the rumours then....!!

[Vinny]

It all makes perfect sense now I know we're talking about Ted Sand-Dune.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1509020756' post='3396073']

Do you have your own microwave oven to bring to rehearsals?
[/quote]

Microwave popcorn? Feck that!

In my band we pop corn over nicely overdriven valve heads in lidded pans with a little peanut oil and serve with melted butter and a touch of nutmeg while the guitarist tunes all five of his axes and arranges his pedals in a pretty daisy chain. That's got to be on my rider before I'll even look at your band.