What PA for Pubs and Social Clubs etc?

[Jack]

To be honest, I'm not sure that £500 is really enough to get what you want. £500 will get you a nice pair of second hand active speakers, our band uses Alto TS115As that are great but other brands will do just as well.

On top of that, you'll need a desk and at least some outboard, or get with the times and move to a digital mixer. Again, we use the Behringer XR18, others will be just as good. I got mine (the PA is the bands, the mixer rack is mine) for £500 and put it in a £75 rack with a £110 mp3 player.

Then some good PA advice is that whatever you're spending on the big things, add 50% on top for cables, cases, stands and other accessories. So realistically we're talking £500 for speakers, £500 for a mixer and £500 for miscellaneous, £1500 will get you a really good band PA system for what you're talking about. Now, the good news is that you can do this incrementally using the stuff you already have as you go.

[tauzero]

I've done one gig with the originals band, and we used the PA the drummer bought for a few quid from a club that was closing down. Next gig, I've said I'll take mine. Drummer's PA - Peavey speakers, needs two people per speaker to carry them. My PA - RCF 7 series 12" active speakers and a tiny Behringer mixer, one person can carry two speakers in.

[EBS_freak]

To be fair, it's criminal to use anything but a digital mixer and a tablet nowadays... the portability and the amount of tools onboard to help you with all the tricky situations you may face, is reason enough alone. For something the size of a shoe box, you have a plethora of outboard available to you! Combined with the lightweight, high output PA speakers you can get, there's no reason to break your back either. It really is a great great era to be into PA!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1509968205' post='3402880']
To be fair, it's criminal to use anything but a digital mixer and a tablet nowadays...
[/quote]

...assuming one has the budget for such things.

[ricksterphil]

Buy the best quality speakers you can afford - RCF or Electrovoice would be my choice. Avoid Peavey gear...always sounds muddy to me.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1509972918' post='3402922']
...assuming one has the budget for such things.
[/quote]

Not expensive these days though

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1509972918' post='3402922']


...assuming one has the budget for such things.
[/quote]

They aren't expensive if you're buying for the first time or replacing/upgrading. I think the xr12 is less than £300? It must have thousands of pounds worth of kit built in too.

Edited November 6, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[Dad3353]

I've just bought, almost new, an Alto 8-mic mixer amp, 500 + 500 Class D, for just under £120, delivered. It weighs just 8 kgs. For the size of venues we play, that's all I need (and all of us know how to work it, even the singster..!). None of us have these 'ipad' things, either. We just plug the box into the HK cabs, plug in five mics and we're off. Pubs, clubs, small outdoor gigs and garden parties... I'm fully aware of the splendid features of these new generation PA sets, but, for what we, and a lot of other amateur, 'week-end warrior' local bands do, they're fine, but overkill. Nice toys, but way off my budget, and not worth the difference as we don't use, nor want to use, their features. No 'individual monitoring' for us, no 31-band graphic, no need for tons of (or any...) fx. Old school..? You betcha. Does it work..? It does for us.

[stingrayPete1977]

That's not really a fair comparison is it?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509980163' post='3402989']
That's not really a fair comparison is it?
[/quote]

Reading through the OP again, I'd say it fits quite well concerning usage and budget. Same band make-up, same venues, similar repertoire, looking for ease of use... Yup, I think it fits quite well...

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1509985185' post='3403036']


Reading through the OP again, I'd say it fits quite well concerning usage and budget. Same band make-up, same venues, similar repertoire, looking for ease of use... Yup, I think it fits quite well...
[/quote]

The good thing about digital desks and powered speakers is that there are still plenty of people happy to buy the old stuff off anyone thinking of getting some modern kit

[Dad3353]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509996063' post='3403145']
The good thing about digital desks and powered speakers is that there are still plenty of people happy to buy the old stuff off anyone thinking of getting some modern kit
[/quote]

Now there, I agree entirely. Bargains for everyone..!

[stingrayPete1977]

[Phil Starr]

First of all I'd say go for something that you know will sound good, that seems obvious but probably means buying a well thought of brand. Secondly list your needs and allow for everything. For me a PA includes all the leads including spares mics, stands, floor monitors as well as the mixer amps and speakers. You may already have some/most of this but it's worth budgeting for everything you need. A brand new hi spec set of active speakers isn't going to sound good if you are using horrible vocal mics and your singer is out of tune because the vocal monitors aren't up to the job.

If I was starting from scratch and money no object I'd go for a digital mixer and active speakers, but there's not yet a lot of this on the used market as you are in the early stages of people trading in their old systems. This means that there is a lot of old, heavy passive stuff out there which is very cheap at the moment and which sonically will equal most modern gear. the cost is weight and flexibility. Separate mixers, amps and speakers take longer to set up and knock down and mean more trips to the van but may be the best you can do in your price bracket. You can halve that effort by going for an active mixer like the Yamaha mentioned above. You could match that with a pair of Yamaha club series speakers like the S112V's and have a pretty good sounding basic PA for £300 leaving you money for any extras like monitors.

I think you'll struggle to get a PA based on active speakers and a digital mixer at your budget. You could go for a couple of active speakers and use a very simple mixer which you'd update when funds allowed. In which case I'd definitely spend some time on researching the speakers and make sure they are what you want in your final system. RCF are the ones to beat at the moment but EV and Yamaha make some good kit too.

[Les]

On topic but as an aside we're all active, tops and subs but recently we've stopped taking the subs in to smaller venues, we still put everything through the PA and I have to say not had a problem with the kick or the bass guitar going through them and the sound is still good.

I wouldn't be without the bins for some of the gigs we do but the tops alone cope very well on the smaller gigs.

Les

[PaulWarning]

we had a flirtation with subs, but decided they weren't worth the effort of carrying them around and storing them, if you're doing a gig that's big enough to need subs there's usually a PA provided

[Phil Starr]

It's true, my subs usually stay in the cupboard. At least half the times I've used them have been in the more 'lively' pub where they are really only there because they are harder to knock over than speaker stands

[grandad]

I'm a fan of Yamaha PA gear in as much as I've owned and used much of their current EMX range and Stagepas, all analogue. I think there can be a tendency towards over-kill with some suggestions.

My big rig is an EMX5016 into EV SX300's and a pair of DBR10's as monitors. A Roland KC150 is used as fold-back for electronic drums as it has a dedicated monitor channel. No sub's. Never had to push this rig hard and only need the power (500W + 500W) when outdoors. Now bear in mind that the 500W per channel is peak, then at 0dB on the led meter it's 6dB down so halve it and halve it again that's 125Wrms per channel.

My little rig is the Stagepas 600i which has 10" speakers and I do love this rig, easy carry, set-up and use. The 10" sound good for vocals, clear and bright.

Lately, as in getting older, I've stopped gigging with the rock band and both set-ups have not seen much use. When I am asked to provide the PA for some do or other I usually use the Stagepas and the Roland KC150 as bass reinforcement, which is plenty even for disco stuff.

Both the EMX5016 and the Stagepas have an auto' feedback-kill one button press facility that works. I have positioned the PA speakers behind and in-line with the performers/mic's and not suffered any howling. This meant that no monitors were needed as the band can hear the FOH. So even less gear required to lift and shift. And fewer leads strung across the stage. All this in the quest to lighten my load and not feel knackered before you start playing. A much easier, quicker set-up and take down and transport.

But it's horses for courses and I spent a shed-load of cash before arriving at my preferred rig over several years on the pub and club circuit. Folk will recommend the gear that they have had success with, as I have done, or are familiar with and comfortable with that suits their requirements. And there is some great gear out there nowadays. So much good advice on this forum but think hard about your requirements and do your research, it'll save you a lot of cash in the long-run if you can get it right first time.

Good luck.

Edited November 7, 2017 by grandad

[stingrayPete1977]

The biggest issue with the conventional kit is the lack of redundancy, a powered desk being the worst, dog and duck ten minutes away from a spare one might be ok, an hour each way from a decent paying wedding gig not so much.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1510051844' post='3403480']
The biggest issue with the conventional kit is the lack of redundancy, a powered desk being the worst, dog and duck ten minutes away from a spare one might be ok, an hour each way from a decent paying wedding gig not so much.
[/quote]

Late '70s I was playing regular wedding gigs as a duo with an accordionist/keys buddy. My PA, a Hiwatt DR205 6-entry 200w head. Taking it out of the car at one restaurant venue, the chassis slid from its sleeve onto my knees, then to the ground. All four KT88 valves were shattered in the gutter. Gutted..? Yup; I'd forgotten to bolt the chassis back in place after having serviced it..! We did the evening using the key's Carlsboro amp as FOH (luckily a pretty small function room...). Back-up..? Spare..? Ha..! One never stops learning, and that was a lesson.
Just sayin'.

[stingrayPete1977]

I haven't the room to store or the desire to cart around all the heavy old fashioned kit never mind a spare desk and power amp no matter how cheap they are.

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1510060451' post='3403605']
I haven't the room to store or the desire to cart around all the heavy old fashioned kit never mind a spare desk and power amp no matter how cheap they are.
[/quote]

+ 1. Age and decrepitude would prevent me from doing so, even if I wanted to.

In response to the original poster, I do think £500-£600 could be pushing it a bit for a complete PA that is any good, unless you get very lucky buying used. Itsmedunc's suggestion of used JBLs is worth following up (the old EON15, if you can find a set that haven't been abused, are decent). If it was me, I'd go for used active cabs (most have class D amplification built in and are reliable and not overly heavy) and an analogue desk with some kind of on-board reverb/FX (I picked up my spare, an Allen & Heath PA12 in mint condition, for less than £200). That's the main components sorted, but you do need to factor in mics, stand, cables, etc, etc and they add up.

[stingrayPete1977]

^ I think this is your best bet too, used powered tops can be added to with a better desk of any type in future if needed, old passive tops will always require another box of some kind, if you make that a powered desk you are stuck with that.

[Dad3353]

The OP is not starting from scratch; he is already using a ('rubbish'; his term...) system, so may well have much of the ancillary stuff such as cables, mics etc already (but some of that may need an upgrade, too, of course...).

[Tubster]

Total agreement with ACTIVE speakers. Great brands have been suggested already but I would add QSC. Yes, they are £££ but well worth it. RCF great, EV has speakers at all price points, the cheaper ones are highly lauded at their price point . Lower down the price spectrum - Alto and Behringer have some acceptable stuff.

Lots of positive suggestions re digital mixers but our experience has been less than great. We had disconnection issues and a total signal loss on a number of channels. Not great for a live band with no sound man. IMHO digital mixers are not ideal for ‘self drive’ bands where the players operate the PA. When they work, they are the schnizzle but when they don’t, it makes for challenges! We will wait for Gen3 or 4. For us, good old analogue is the way to go. There are great deals out there on analogue. Certainly recognise the benefits of digital but....didn’t work for us.

Mics, stands and cables need your attention too, especially decent mics. There are so many good choices but not all mics suit all voices - take time to match them.

Whatever decision you make - stick to ACTIVE speakers - what a fundamental positive change for pub giggers.