What PA for Pubs and Social Clubs etc?

[3below]

I would also think about redundancy - having spares so you can carry on when kit decides to stop working. In our case the lightweight monitor power amp and speakers can double as pa mains if the worst happens. As mentioned by others there will be an increasing amount of quality used analogue kit soon, bargains for all

Edited November 7, 2017 by 3below

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Tubster' timestamp='1510094095' post='3404024']
Total agreement with ACTIVE speakers. Great brands have been suggested already but I would add QSC. Yes, they are £££ but well worth it. RCF great, EV has speakers at all price points, the cheaper ones are highly lauded at their price point . Lower down the price spectrum - Alto and Behringer have some acceptable stuff.

Lots of positive suggestions re digital mixers but our experience has been less than great. We had disconnection issues and a total signal loss on a number of channels. Not great for a live band with no sound man. IMHO digital mixers are not ideal for ‘self drive’ bands where the players operate the PA. When they work, they are the schnizzle but when they don’t, it makes for challenges! We will wait for Gen3 or 4. For us, good old analogue is the way to go. There are great deals out there on analogue. Certainly recognise the benefits of digital but....didn’t work for us.

Mics, stands and cables need your attention too, especially decent mics. There are so many good choices but not all mics suit all voices - take time to match them.

Whatever decision you make - stick to ACTIVE speakers - what a fundamental positive change for pub giggers.
[/quote]

As I've said before the xair mixer carries on regardless even if you put the ipad in a bucket of water, once set up at the start of the gig you could turn the Wi-Fi off without affecting the gig other than easy access to muting the p.a. when you have a break, which you could do by flipping the switches on the back of each speaker if you really wanted to.

[crez5150]

You can also use the Midi function to link a physical control surface if you want such as the X-Touch. Obviously that increases the cost though

[stingrayPete1977]

Or steal a cat 5e cable from work and plug it in directly for free

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1510136043' post='3404162']
Or steal a cat 5e cable from work and plug it in directly for free
[/quote]

Or even a quick search on eBay has shown that I can get a 5m cable for £1.65 - with free shipping!

[Tubster]

In our cases:

1. Wireless lost connection, pa continued to run but no control of any functions but show continued

2. Mixer stopped passing audio to speakers on vocal channels - no vocals audible - pa crapped out and show stopped

Case #1 is perhaps avoidable with external router or physical connection. case #2 is not. We were not prepared to wait for #3. Maybe we were just unlucky but our reputation is on the line so we moved to safeguard it.

The benefits of digital are manifold but peace of mind trumps them all.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1509186434' post='3397191']
What is the better option, powered mixer/passive speakers, or the other way round?
[/quote]

In today's world it is probably better to use passive mixer/active speakers. If one active speaker goes dead then the other will let you finish the gig. Use active speakers and the amp will always match the speakers and protection can be built in, making the whole thing foolproof.

However in practice you won't notice the difference at your price point, so long as your active mixer is powerful enough, and by buying used passive speakers you can probably get something that sounds better than you'd expect the other way round. If you can continue to use your existing mixer then blowing the whole of your budget on a pair of actives would give you an immediate improvement in sound and could be the sensible start of a planned upgrade programme which you could add to as you can afford it.

you might find this useful [url="https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1591207"]https://www.ultimate...d.php?t=1591207[/url] it's a little out of date so some of the links might not work but the general principles are still good.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Phil Starr

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='Tubster' timestamp='1510188299' post='3404594']
In our cases:

1. Wireless lost connection, pa continued to run but no control of any functions but show continued

2. Mixer stopped passing audio to speakers on vocal channels - no vocals audible - pa crapped out and show stopped

Case #1 is perhaps avoidable with external router or physical connection. case #2 is not. We were not prepared to wait for #3. Maybe we were just unlucky but our reputation is on the line so we moved to safeguard it.

The benefits of digital are manifold but peace of mind trumps them all.
[/quote]

A digital mixer that doesn't depend on Wi-Fi is the answer here. I use an Allen and Heath Qu, on which you can control everything manually if the iPad fails.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Dan Dare

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1510312642' post='3405482']


A digital mixer that doesn't depend on Wi-Fi is the answer here. I use an Allen and Heath Qu, on which you can control everything manually if the iPad fails.
[/quote]

He's saying the actual desk wasn't putting anything out of the Mic channels though regardless, that's either a faulty desk or user error nothing to do with digital or analogue.

[thebrig]

[size=4]OP here, thanks for all the tips and advice so far, but s[/size]ince I started this thread, a couple of the band members are now saying that they don't think it is worthwhile upgrading our rubbish PA system to something half-decent, their reasoning is because they don't think we get enough gigs to warrant the expense.

[size=4]Now this has really wound me up, and if you take a look at my thread, [/size][color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][size=4][color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][b]How does your band go about getting gigs?[/b] you will probably understand why I'm so cheesed off. [/font][/color][/size]

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/314932-how-does-your-band-go-about-getting-gigs/

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1510319001' post='3405547']
[size=4]OP here, thanks for all the tips and advice so far, but s[/size]ince I started this thread, a couple of the band members are now saying that they don't think it is worthwhile upgrading our rubbish PA system to something half-decent, their reasoning is because they don't think we get enough gigs to warrant the expense.

[size=4]Now this has really wound me up, and if you take a look at my thread, [/size][color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][size=4][color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][b]How does your band go about getting gigs?[/b] you will probably understand why I'm so cheesed off. [/font][/color][/size]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/314932-how-does-your-band-go-about-getting-gigs/"]http://basschat.co.u...t-getting-gigs/[/url]
[/quote]

Over the years ive ended up buying quite a few bits and pieces for my band. Two of them had a 'lets make do if its working' attitude. While this was true me and the drummer could see where things needed to be improved (mic leads, stands etc) and would occasionally just buy them ourselves for the band. It was my hobby after all and i wanted to enjoy it, so didnt mind the few £ every now and then.

Same thing when the band split and we got new members in. Me and the singer brought the new active speakers. My reasoning was that if the band didnt work out i would still have a nice combo to use if i needed it, and secondly if we got rid of anyone or someone left it was less messy. In fact i use one of the speakers all the time at home now.

Im not saying this is ideal for everyone, but i could afford it, so i didnt mind, and in return we sound much better.

Edited November 10, 2017 by dave_bass5

[thebrig]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1510320437' post='3405567']
Over the years ive ended pu buying quite a few bits and pieces for my band. Two of them had a 'lets make do if its working' attitude. While this was true me and the drummer could see where things needed to be improved (mic leads, stands etc) and would occasionally just buy them ourselves for the band. It was my hobby after all and i wanted to enjoy it, so didnt mind the few £ every now and then.

Same thing when the band split and we got new members in. Me and the singer brought the new active speakers. My reasoning was that if the band didnt work out i would still have a nice combo to use if i needed it, and secondly if we got rid of anyone or someone left it was less messy. In fact i use one of the speakers all the time at home now.

Im not saying this is ideal for everyone, but i could afford it, so i didnt mind, and in return we sound much better.
[size=4][/quote][color=#000000]I’ve thought about going down this route, and I suppose if I went second-hand, then at least if I was to sell it on, the chances are I would get most of my money back.[/color][/size]

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1510321249' post='3405577']
[color=#000000]I’ve thought about going down this route, and I suppose if I went second-hand, then at least if I was to sell it on, the chances are I would get most of my money back.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

Getting those active speakers off our own back was a good move for a few reasons. As ive said, i can use one as a combo if needed, the singer can use one or both as active monitors if we are using another PA, so it worked out well for both of us (we are a couple). We have also hired them out a few times to friends so again, having independence from others interfering has been nice. We have them set up in our living room as part of our home cinema set up, so they are getting used quite a bit. If/when i give up playing live ill sell off my bass rig but still keep the speakers.

I also feel safer having two power amps with me, without having to actually bring a spare. As each speaker has more than enough power on its own we can, in theory, use just one with the other slaved to in passive mode if one goes down. This was always a worry with just one power amp in the past.

Edited November 10, 2017 by dave_bass5

[Jack]

This can work. I bought a Behringer XR18 and I let the band use it for every gig. I didn't mind as I knew that I'd use it to record at home, as a live mixer in other projects and with my (already owned) active cabs I now have a whole PA system myself.

I would not for instance buy subs for the band to use entirely by myself as I would have no use for them outside of the current band and they'd take up far too much room at home. But the mixer was a no-brainer for me.

[Dan Dare]

A further suggestion re. band PA systems. Don't buy everything jointly. It can get complicated when people leave or the band splits and you have to sell it all (you rarely/never get what it's worth from a utility point of view) or get replacement members to buy into it. Best for individual members to own individual pieces of equipment - one owns the mixing desk, one the speakers (or one each), etc. That way, if you part company, you each take your own stuff with you and if someone leaves, they take what's theirs and the replacement member just has to provide similar.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1510321249' post='3405577']
[color=#000000]I’ve thought about going down this route, and I suppose if I went second-hand, then at least if I was to sell it on, the chances are I would get most of my money back.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

Why not list what your band use at the moment? Then we can suggest upgrades that won't cost the earth and would improve your sound. Who knows; you might get more gigs as a result of sounding better and if not you still own the PA. I went out and bought my PA to prevent this being an issue in any band I'm in. Buy used and you can cash it in any time and get almost all your money back.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1510337429' post='3405785']
A further suggestion re. band PA systems. Don't buy everything jointly. It can get complicated when people leave or the band splits and you have to sell it all (you rarely/never get what it's worth from a utility point of view) or get replacement members to buy into it. Best for individual members to own individual pieces of equipment - one owns the mixing desk, one the speakers (or one each), etc. That way, if you part company, you each take your own stuff with you and if someone leaves, they take what's theirs and the replacement member just has to provide similar.
[/quote]
This too

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1510337784' post='3405791']


Why not list what your band use at the moment? Then we can suggest upgrades that won't cost the earth and would improve your sound. Who knows; you might get more gigs as a result of sounding better and if not you still own the PA. I went out and bought my PA to prevent this being an issue in any band I'm in. Buy used and you can cash it in any time and get almost all your money back.
[/quote]

I did exactly that many years ago. I got fed up with playing through iffy PAs, so bought one myself. I started out with something basic but decent and have upgraded over the years to something quite good. It also means I get offers of work over better players than me because people know I come with a PA (for which I charge, of course, but I'm still cheaper than hiring).

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1510337429' post='3405785']
A further suggestion re. band PA systems. Don't buy everything jointly. It can get complicated when people leave or the band splits and you have to sell it all (you rarely/never get what it's worth from a utility point of view) or get replacement members to buy into it. Best for individual members to own individual pieces of equipment - one owns the mixing desk, one the speakers (or one each), etc. That way, if you part company, you each take your own stuff with you and if someone leaves, they take what's theirs and the replacement member just has to provide similar.
[/quote]

Sounds complicated, plus i cant imagine an ad like “drummer wanted, must also own a PA speaker that matches the one we already have” :-)

What you are suggesting is almost like saying any new member has to buy in to a band.

Edited November 10, 2017 by dave_bass5

[Jack]

Nah, split a PA 4 ways between a 4-piece band

Tops
Subs
Mixer
Monitors

Easy!

[size=1]God help you if you're a 12-piece.... [size=1] [/size][/size]