Is it too late for me to learn to read sheet music?

[dannybuoy]

Go for it if you want to learn it. It's lower on my priority list though than learning to recognise intervals and chords by ear and figuring out which scales and shapes are best to apply over them. My aim is to be a better musician in a jam situation where there is no sheet music around though!

You don't have to learn how to read sheet music to make significant progress as a player - Pino can't read music and he's one of the most in demand session players on the planet!

[Jezyorkshire]

4 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

It would depend how good your "ear" is already - the OP has been playing for a few years and has played guitar for longer. I'd not disagree that playing by ear is important but if it were already quite well developed, then time would be better spent learning to read music, than a marginal improvement in playing by ear. Its all relative; what's more, its difficult to know yourself where your own weaknesses are (so its kinda a hint at formal lessons too, or discipline if self taught).

The OP says that the reason he wants to read is so he can buy Bass transcriptions, which I took to mean that the ones he would be buying are for bass lines he wants to learn? That inferes he struggles with doing it by ear maybe ? Maybe he will comment? In my opinion if that’s the case developing his ears and maybe some understanding of theory would be the best thing , theory from an angle of being able to analyse how bass lines are constructed and the harmonic language that is used to create the right effect and connecting this to an aural understanding of this language

 

[dontregartha]

One thing that I will add is that reading also goes with writing. 

I've played with a horn section and they need dost to follow otherwise its a mess. The lead horn, a sax player, would improve the parts and then scribble them down and arrange the trumpet part at the same time - very impressive and helped the overall sound immensely. It also helped them to remember what they did the next time.

I have to rely on the recordings I make at rehearsal to capture the 'off piste' ideas,

[frannie01]

Hi I am a bass tutor I include sight reading as part of my bass course.If you'd like to discuss some tutoring  or wether you think you'd benefit in this area maybe I can help ? I am currently setting up an online teaching programme if your interested.

http://paulfrancisbass.webs.com/paul-francis-bass-tutor

 

[ambient]

On 17/01/2018 at 16:23, Jezyorkshire said:

 Time would be better spent learning  by ear in my opinion, I can read but reading doesn’t give you the emotional content and subtleties 

So orchestras around the world are playing without any emotion or subtlety?

 

[Jezyorkshire]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

So orchestras around the world are playing without any emotion or subtlety?

 

you are taking my words out of context, the context is that he wants to learn to play some bass lines from certain songs or books that could be learnt by ear, if you learn to play with dots only as a developing player you dont acquire the emotional content and nuances from the performance on the recording , this can only be done by copying by ear these elements, you are taking it completely out of context as anyone in an orchestra playing at the level you intimate are developed players with the musical sensibilities to play with those elements in context of their performance,  he says he hasn't been playing bass long, my advice is as  someone who has spent a lot of time acquiring the emotional content and nuances of players i like, using my ears, i can read, i have read some hard parts in my time but learning those elements enables me to know how to interpret a notated piece if i know the language of that genre from using my ears.

[ambient]

4 minutes ago, Jezyorkshire said:

you are taking my words out of context, the context is that he wants to learn to play some bass lines from certain songs or books that could be learnt by ear, if you learn to play with dots only as a developing player you dont acquire the emotional content and nuances from the performance on the recording , this can only be done by copying by ear these elements, you are taking it completely out of context as anyone in an orchestra playing at the level you intimate are developed players with the musical sensibilities to play with those elements in context of their performance,  he says he hasn't been playing bass long, my advice is as  someone who has spent a lot of time acquiring the emotional content and nuances of players i like, using my ears, i can read, i have read some hard parts in my time but learning those elements enables me to know how to interpret a notated piece if i know the language of that genre from using my ears.

I would disagree. Personally speaking I learned to read music as I was learning to play, that made it easier for me. I actually didn’t realise that you could play any other way. I expected to join a band and be given or be able to buy written out bass lines.

Playing with the necessary emotion whilst sight-reading from a chart is about interpreting the chart from the annotated instruction. Also if you know if it’s a funk piece you’ll play it differently than if you know it’s a rock song. It’s also vitally important to listen to the ensemble as a whole whilst playing/reading to pick up the correct vibe.

Personally I think it’s an excellent idea to learn to sight-read from the beginning of setting out to learn an instrument. So many people put it off, then when they decide that they want to learn to read music they struggle.

With regard to the OP, you’re never too old. I’m teaching a guy who turned 80 last August.

[Jezyorkshire]

7 hours ago, ambient said:

I would disagree. Personally speaking I learned to read music as I was learning to play, that made it easier for me. I actually didn’t realise that you could play any other way. I expected to join a band and be given or be able to buy written out bass lines.

Playing with the necessary emotion whilst sight-reading from a chart is about interpreting the chart from the annotated instruction. Also if you know if it’s a funk piece you’ll play it differently than if you know it’s a rock song. It’s also vitally important to listen to the ensemble as a whole whilst playing/reading to pick up the correct vibe.

Personally I think it’s an excellent idea to learn to sight-read from the beginning of setting out to learn an instrument. So many people put it off, then when they decide that they want to learn to read music they struggle.

With regard to the OP, you’re never too old. I’m teaching a guy who turned 80 last August.

 

so you cant even admit that you took my words completely out of context?

I wonder what the OP thinks to the replys as he  hasn't actually posted since  starting this thread? which would be more relevant?

[ambient]

On 17/01/2018 at 16:23, Jezyorkshire said:

 Time would be better spent learning  by ear in my opinion, I can read but reading doesn’t give you the emotional content and subtleties 

 

44 minutes ago, Jezyorkshire said:

 

so you cant even admit that you took my words completely out of context?

I wonder what the OP thinks to the replys as he  hasn't actually posted since  starting this thread? which would be more relevant?

Reading doesn't give you the emotional content and subtleties is what you said. I pointed out that in my opinion it does, and used orchestral musicians sight-reading and playing often very difficult pieces full of emotion as an example. How is that taking your words out of context?

The guy wants to learn to play lines, maybe that's all he wants to do? He's probably not concerned with anything, just playing lines. If the line is written out then it's all there for him.

Life's too short, and I'm too busy to argue on line with people, so won't be making any more comments.

[Jezyorkshire]

10 hours ago, ambient said:

 

Reading doesn't give you the emotional content and subtleties is what you said. I pointed out that in my opinion it does, and used orchestral musicians sight-reading and playing often very difficult pieces full of emotion as an example. How is that taking your words out of context?

The guy wants to learn to play lines, maybe that's all he wants to do? He's probably not concerned with anything, just playing lines. If the line is written out then it's all there for him.

Life's too short, and I'm too busy to argue on line with people, so won't be making any more comments.

 

i agree, life is too short man, the problem is an inability to see the difference between the level that the OP is at and as you say " orchestral musicians sight-reading and playing often very difficult pieces full of emotion as an example"

 

[converse320]

I'm doing my grades on my own, no teacher as there really aren't near me, and I've started using Noteflight (a free basic notation package) as a way of tackling some of the music I'm struggling with.  You can type in the relevant bit of the score and it plays it back to you.  I think its helpful to do it like this - it forces you to think about it as you're typing it in, and you can at least hear a basic version of what its supposed to sound like.

[dontregartha]

I've sweated over this many times over the years and have had a couple of goes at learning to read. I reckon good ear training is the most important skill, especially for bass.

I hate bass tabs - they really are very difficult to follow and if asked "play a dflat" or "what key is that in?" will have to think.

But start up a tune and I'm on it - I can move my hand to the note instinctively.

i don't use charts or scores when playing in the band - I learn it all and that enables me to perform, rather than read.

[paul_c2]

A couple of points: sight reading is a different (but related) skill to reading music. Sight reading is only really necessary the first few runs through of a piece and being good at sight reading means you save time - a LOT of time - in the initial phase. BUT orchestras don't perform music sight reading. They have the parts in advance; practise them, rehearse together then perform it. If you're reading something the 2nd or subsequent time, its not sight reading. Its only really advanced or professional orchestras where the amount of actual time rehearsing would become minimised (so they're more reliant on their reading ability, than falling back to the progress they would have made during many rehearsals), a subset of the many amateur orchestras and various groups etc which do typically read music. Also one of the main reasons why these kinds of groups read music is that its more complicated - rock/pop songs are typically a simple structure with repeating elements, a classical piece can be fairly unique from start to finish. So caution is required in drawing comparisons anyway.

Secondly, for a beginner player, reading music is such an advantage because it probably means they'll save time in getting the right notes, and a good deal of the "emotion" or interpretation right first time, due to the dynamics, phrasing etc markings on the music in addition to the pitch and rhythm stuff. A similarly beginning player who has spent the time so far, improving their ear training (rather than learning to read music) would probably still get some of the pitches wrong - AND have spent more time in trying to learn by ear, thus having less time to improve it or apply "emotions"/etc

[Bilbo]

Peripheral but interesting. 

 

I decided fairly recently try to learn to read guitar music. I am nearly 55. I have made incremental progress to the point where last week, I bought a book of easy classical guitar pieces. I have since read 85 short pieces of music cold, including  notated chords. It's really exciting. 

[garyt]

Go for it.  If you have the desire to learn to read music, then follow it through as the experience will be really rewarding.  Apart from being able to play stuff off sheet music, it's also good to be able to 'hear' it when reading (bit like reading a book).  Basically you have nothing to lose trying, and everything to gain if it works out,