Stunning girl, instrument, playing and composition!!!

[EBS_freak]

FFS, I think it's about time we stop talking about sexism and the like and all have a Diet Coke break.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrE1VMxzoE

[ahpook]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1509449243' post='3398955']
jesus wept snowflake, I was being civil, I didnt even use any bad language or insults. The fact you are so cut up by what I said suggest only one thing...
[/quote]

"...you guys need to get out from behind your keyboards and spend some time in the real world and spend time interacting with real people in real life scenario"


You're saying that my viewpoints are based on a lack of knowledge of the 'real world' [sic] and that I don't interact with 'real people' [sic] in 'real life' [sic]

It's patronising and insults my intelligence, but it's not rude ?

[Hellzero]

Talking about Windham Hill records, what about this.

He is dressed like sh*t, not really on the beauty side, takes 3 minutes to tune his bass when I saw a kora player doing this within a minute with 32 strings, but this is great music, composition and playing.

Does anybody complain about him and am I sexist or anything stupid with what I wrote ? I don't think so and I do like him a lot. Maybe now I'm a fagot according to some of the sexist league ?

[Media]https://youtu.be/wkkzzAjSxDs[/media]

PS : Yvette Young is not a beauty, but she is a pretty girl and I like what she does, even if it could be less pattern repeated...

[dyerseve]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1509449694' post='3398963']


"...you guys need to get out from behind your keyboards and spend some time in the real world and spend time interacting with real people in real life scenario"


You're saying that my viewpoints are based on a lack of knowledge of the 'real world' [sic] and that I don't interact with 'real people' [sic] in 'real life' [sic]

It's patronising and insults my intelligence, but it's not rude ?
[/quote]

Ok so you can dish it out but can't take it. Thanks for clearing that up. Now move along to your next SJW rally...

[dyerseve]

[quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1509451199' post='3398983']
Talking about Windham Hill records, what about this.

He is dressed like sh*t, not really on the beauty side, takes 3 minutes to tune his bass when I saw a kora player doing this within a minute with 32 strings, but this is great music, composition and playing.

Does anybody complain about him and am I sexist or anything stupid with what I wrote ? I don't think so and I do like him a lot. Maybe now I'm a fagot according to some of the sexist league ?

[Media]https://youtu.be/wkkzzAjSxDs[/media]

PS : Yvette Young is not a beauty, but she is a pretty girl and I like what she does, even if it could be less pattern repeated...
[/quote]

Sadly the bud didn't do anything for me but like you I'm sure it's because it wasn't some hot piece of ass playing rather than the musical content. In a serious note, i know Michael is a seriously skilled player but that piece, whilst I enjoyed the rhythm, was overall too busy for me. Ugly looking bass IMO even though ergonomically it makes a lot of sense

[Sibob]

Hullo,

*I'll caveat the below with the context of referring to people who we don't know, or don't have a personal relationship with. Of course there are certain ways we talk to our friends and those we're close to that we know is accetable......or so we think, maybe we should all consider that a little.*

I should probably apologise, in that my initial comment wasn't particularly helpful, nor necessarily accurate with its terminology.
However, I stand by the sentiment of my post, although it certainly wasn't an attack on the OP, nor any kind of further comment on their person other than their choice of language.

Simple fact - Whilst you almost certainly posted the video to draw peoples attention to the guitarist-in-questions music, playing and interesting gear, the fact is that the absolute first and foremost thing you chose to comment on (subconsciously or otherwise) was her appearance.

If we drill down into it a bit further, your chosen title suggests that you wish to make people aware of how impressive her playing skills are, the music is, and you'd like to draw attention to those points as well as how interesting her gear is......again, the first point you make (because the title is the first thing we see), is how attractive you think she is (which of course has sexual undertones).

On the face of it, as you say, in certain situations, there is nothing wrong with saying how attractive you think someone is....however the way it's done in this post only serves to reduce her other achievements so you can get across you think she's 'stunning', even if you mention her other qualities after the fact......in other words....it's irrelevant. If you started a thread in off topic about how beautiful a particular girl (or guy) is, it would be somewhat base....but arguably relevant to comment on their appearance. On a part of the forum that is fundamentally about music and bass, does commenting on someones appearance first (when it has nothing to do with the performance (i.e. a funny costume etc), before then commenting on their capabilities, not seem completely irrelevant to you?

Now, just to be clear.....I'm not offended by it, how you choose to treat others, of which I have had no similar life experience to (an asian-american female guitarist), is purely up to you. As has been mentioned before, the terms 'offended', 'snowflake', 'SJW' etc etc are often banded around because those who have been called up on certain behaviour need to be able to sling something back, none of those terms really mean anything.

Some of the replies here are also indicative of the wider societal problem, but again completely engrained by hundreds of years of 'that's ok, that's the way it is'. The whole ethos of 'it's not me that's the problem, it's the rest of the world'.
Someone commented about how they described a receptionist as 'cute'.....amongst other things. The fact they didn't deem it necessary to enquire as to her name when dealing with her is one thing (regardless go them being male or female), but when they asked who they dealt with, presumably in a professional situation, didn't think it more appropriate to simply say "I'm afraid I didn't ask, but she had blonde hair", a tangible fact, not a comment on her 'cuteness'. Being so acutely unaware of what the issue is there is not that persons fault necessarily, they're not a bad person, but just them being a product of their time. But doesn't help to change their way of thinking when others say "don't worry about it, everyone else is mad, you continue thinking in terms of her being cute".

As I mentioned before, given a conversation specifically about someones appearance, as we're all prone to do, rightly or wrongly, it would be relevant to mention someones appearance. A group of females talking about Tom Hardy whilst out on the town is perhaps likely to be in a sexual context over his acting, of course that happens with both male and female groups, fine. However if a group of women, on a music forum, were talking about his guitar playing, but pre-tagged it with how hot he looks....that's equally irrelevant. Of course they can do it, but it makes them look a bit sad, it reduces the musical discussion.
Someone argued the whole 'women do it' above a little, and quite frankly the 'they do it so we can' argument is childish.
Someone posted the diet coke advert above, stupid advert, equally stupid to an advert with a half naked girl trying to sell something. It shows a lack of customer awareness and a total lack of creativity. Again 'oh this advert exists so it must be ok to objectify women', very odd.

Someone also mentioned should we extend this commenting on appearance to objects......I mean really? Are you in turn suggesting that people are simply objects that we can comment on how we choose? I mean, to be fair, of course you can comment how you choose, but it certainly won't endear you to them in any way.

And please, suggesting that you'd pre-tag a video of a male bass player with him being 'handsome' is ridiculous and you know it. Find me a post on this forum that has a male player video that comments on his appearance in the same way, i doubt there is, because if you read that thread title out in your head....it sounds silly.....as it should sound silly to you when posting a video of a female guitarist.

So to be clear:

- Act how you like, your relationships are your own.
- Be aware that females today probably won't appreciate having their appearance commented on if it's in the context of commenting on other skills relevant to the conversation at hand. But again, do what you want, how they perceive your interaction with them is no skin off my nose
- I'm not 'offended', just discussing something that needs addressing society wide based on your thread title, take it or leave it.
- If you liked the musical content of the OP, check out Chon

Perhaps I can send those who don't get it away with some rhetorical homework:
Do you think that if you were in a face-to-face conversation with her, first time you meet her, you would first mention how stunning you thought she was before then talking about the music? If you do think you'd say that (weird), how do you think that would make her feel?

Now, I know I haven't helped here, but it's clear that those who don't get it, won't, and those trying to help people get it, won't manage to.....and so the world turns huh.
Let's crack on with talking about guitarists, 'math-core' and too many strings!

Cheers
Si

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1509397782' post='3398659']
You're missing the point. Probably quite unintentionally, but you are missing the point.
[/quote]

Nope, not missing it; just not accepting the validity of it.

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1509397892' post='3398661']
"Nice tits", "fantastic arse".

Sincere compliments, how could they possibly cause trouble?
[/quote]

But the OP didn't say that - or anything that's equivalent to that IMHO.

Let's have a bit of tolerance here!

[ahpook]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1509452661' post='3398994']
Ok so you can dish it out but can't take it. Thanks for clearing that up. Now move along to your next SJW rally...
[/quote]

Dish what out ? Rudeness ? I've not been rude to you at all. I've disagreed with what you've said, that's all.

I've been careful, I think, to talk about what you've said, not who or what you are. I've not said you're sexist or misogynist as others have - I've addressed your comments and tried to explain where the inappropriateness in your comments are, as I see them.

You have described me as a 'snowflake' (which I believe wasn't intended to praise my complexity and purity) and demeaned my intelligence. Not cool.

As for the snowflake comment - the moment your opinion was challenged you started insulting people, rejecting their comments and showed all the signs of not being able to deal with an opinion other than your own.

From what I understand about the term 'snowflake', well....

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1509453515' post='3399005']
Hullo,

*I'll caveat the below with the context of referring to people who we don't know, or don't have a personal relationship with. Of course there are certain ways we talk to our friends and those we're close to that we know is accetable......or so we think, maybe we should all consider that a little.*

...So to be clear:

- Act how you like, your relationships are your own.
- Be aware that females today probably won't appreciate having their appearance commented on if it's in the context of commenting on other skills relevant to the conversation at hand. But again, do what you want, how they perceive your interaction with them is no skin off my nose
- I'm not 'offended', just discussing something that needs addressing society wide based on your thread title, take it or leave it.
- If you liked the musical content of the OP, check out Chon

Perhaps I can send those who don't get it away with some rhetorical homework:
Do you think that if you were in a face-to-face conversation with her, first time you meet her, you would first mention how stunning you thought she was before then talking about the music? If you do think you'd say that (weird), how do you think that would make her feel?

Now, I know I haven't helped here, but it's clear that those who don't get it, won't, and those trying to help people get it, won't manage to.....and so the world turns huh.
Let's crack on with talking about guitarists, 'math-core' and too many strings!

Cheers
Si
[/quote]

Couldn't help noticing this bubbling up in the gen discussions and whilst I've come late to this and just scanned this last page of comments, I think I get the gist of the debate!

I have just read Si's lengthy post, however, and I'd just like to thank him for taking the time to write such a carefully considered and thoughtful response. Cheers Si.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1509455441' post='3399026']
I have just read Si's lengthy post, however, and I'd just like to thank him for taking the time to write such a carefully considered and thoughtful response. Cheers Si.
[/quote]

Agreed, very much so.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1509453802' post='3399010']





But the OP didn't say that - or anything that's equivalent to that IMHO.

Let's have a bit of tolerance here!
[/quote]

I never said he did.

My post was in reply to your statement "It's a funny old world where saying something sincerely nice about somebody gets you in bother." Which is why it was quoted.

People are different, and what is tolerable to you, may not be tolerable to someone else if said to them.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1509453515' post='3399005']
Hullo,

*I'll caveat the below with the context of referring to people who we don't know, or don't have a personal relationship with. Of course there are certain ways we talk to our friends and those we're close to that we know is accetable......or so we think, maybe we should all consider that a little.*

I should probably apologise, in that my initial comment wasn't particularly helpful, nor necessarily accurate with its terminology.
However, I stand by the sentiment of my post, although it certainly wasn't an attack on the OP, nor any kind of further comment on their person other than their choice of language.

Simple fact - Whilst you almost certainly posted the video to draw peoples attention to the guitarist-in-questions music, playing and interesting gear, the fact is that the absolute first and foremost thing you chose to comment on (subconsciously or otherwise) was her appearance.

If we drill down into it a bit further, your chosen title suggests that you wish to make people aware of how impressive her playing skills are, the music is, and you'd like to draw attention to those points as well as how interesting her gear is......again, the first point you make (because the title is the first thing we see), is how attractive you think she is (which of course has sexual undertones).

On the face of it, as you say, in certain situations, there is nothing wrong with saying how attractive you think someone is....however the way it's done in this post only serves to reduce her other achievements so you can get across you think she's 'stunning', even if you mention her other qualities after the fact......in other words....it's irrelevant. If you started a thread in off topic about how beautiful a particular girl (or guy) is, it would be somewhat base....but arguably relevant to comment on their appearance. On a part of the forum that is fundamentally about music and bass, does commenting on someones appearance first (when it has nothing to do with the performance (i.e. a funny costume etc), before then commenting on their capabilities, not seem completely irrelevant to you?

Now, just to be clear.....I'm not offended by it, how you choose to treat others, of which I have had no similar life experience to (an asian female guitarist), is purely up to you. As has been mentioned before, the terms 'offended', 'snowflake', 'SJW' etc etc are often banded around because those who have been called up on certain behaviour need to be able to sling something back, none of those terms really mean anything.

Some of the replies here are also indicative of the wider societal problem, but again completely engrained by hundreds of years of 'that's ok, that's the way it is'. The whole ethos of 'it's not me that's the problem, it's the rest of the world'.
Someone commented about how they described a receptionist as 'cute'.....amongst other things. The fact they didn't deem it necessary to enquire as to her name when dealing with her is one thing (regardless go them being male or female), but when they asked who they dealt with, presumably in a professional situation, didn't think it more appropriate to simply say "I'm afraid I didn't ask, but she had blonde hair", a tangible fact, not a comment on her 'cuteness'. Being so acutely unaware of what the issue is there is not that persons fault necessarily, they're not a bad person, but just them being a product of their time. But doesn't help to change their way of thinking when others say "don't worry about it, everyone else is mad, you continue thinking in terms of her being cute".

As I mentioned before, given a conversation specifically about someones appearance, as we're all prone to do, rightly or wrongly, it would be relevant to mention someones appearance. A group of females talking about Tom Hardy whilst out on the town is perhaps likely to be in a sexual context over his acting, of course that happens with both male and female groups, fine. However if a group of women, on a music forum, were talking about his guitar playing, but pre-tagged it with how hot he looks....that's equally irrelevant. Of course they can do it, but it makes them look a bit sad, it reduces the musical discussion.
Someone argued the whole 'women do it' above a little, and quite frankly the 'they do it so we can' argument is childish.
Someone posted the diet coke advert above, stupid advert, equally stupid to an advert with a half naked girl trying to sell something. It shows a lack of customer awareness and a total lack of creativity. Again 'oh this advert exists so it must be ok to objectify women', very odd.

Someone also mentioned should we extend this commenting on appearance to objects......I mean really? Are you in turn suggesting that people are simply objects that we can comment on how we choose? I mean, to be fair, of course you can comment how you choose, but it certainly won't endear you to them in any way.

And please, suggesting that you'd pre-tag a video of a male bass player with him being 'handsome' is ridiculous and you know it. Find me a post on this forum that has a male player video that comments on his appearance in the same way, i doubt there is, because if you read that thread title out in your head....it sounds silly.....as it should sound silly to you when posting a video of a female guitarist.

So to be clear:

- Act how you like, your relationships are your own.
- Be aware that females today probably won't appreciate having their appearance commented on if it's in the context of commenting on other skills relevant to the conversation at hand. But again, do what you want, how they perceive your interaction with them is no skin off my nose
- I'm not 'offended', just discussing something that needs addressing society wide based on your thread title, take it or leave it.
- If you liked the musical content of the OP, check out Chon

Perhaps I can send those who don't get it away with some rhetorical homework:
Do you think that if you were in a face-to-face conversation with her, first time you meet her, you would first mention how stunning you thought she was before then talking about the music? If you do think you'd say that (weird), how do you think that would make her feel?

Now, I know I haven't helped here, but it's clear that those who don't get it, won't, and those trying to help people get it, won't manage to.....and so the world turns huh.
Let's crack on with talking about guitarists, 'math-core' and too many strings!

Cheers
Si
[/quote]

Hi Si,

thanks for your considered post. I think what this thread does reveal in abundance is people willingness to read too much in to things based on their own preconceptions and prejudices.

I understand your point about using someones looks in the same sentence as complimenting their skills but people are really reading too much in to how I phrased the title of this thread. Look for intent, if it isnt there, assume no harm was intended and move on. I said the girl was stunning which could actually have been an all encompassing compliment on her playing, technique and composition. Rather than stop to consider that people jumped to conclusions. As it happens I was talking about her physical appearance but I didnt make any remarks to say that anyone should only watch the video because I found her attractive or that her musical talent was in anyway enhanced by her phyiscal appearance or that she merited any more or less attention because of it.

What I would like to point out though is that there is precisely zero sexual undertones to saying someone is good looking. I think George Clooney is absolutely handsome as hell but that doesnt mean anything other than that I consider that his phyiscal form is aesthetically pleasing. I dont want to have sex with him. Same with many many people of both sexes that I hold similar opinions on. I think society is too keen to jump to conclusions on people who openly compliment others because they are not comfortable with doing the same.

Peace

[lojo]

What first attracted me to my wife was her looks , is that bad ?

20 years on she's my best friend and I love her as a person

None of us can judge the OPs comment unless they know him and his underlying character.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1509454706' post='3399018']
Dish what out ? Rudeness ? I've not been rude to you at all. I've disagreed with what you've said, that's all.

I've been careful, I think, to talk about what you've said, not who or what you are. I've not said you're sexist or misogynist as others have - I've addressed your comments and tried to explain where the inappropriateness in your comments are, as I see them.

You have described me as a 'snowflake' (which I believe wasn't intended to praise my complexity and purity) and demeaned my intelligence. Not cool.

As for the snowflake comment - the moment your opinion was challenged you started insulting people, rejecting their comments and showed all the signs of not being able to deal with an opinion other than your own.

From what I understand about the term 'snowflake', well....
[/quote]

Allow me to clear a few things up:
Your replies were condesending and patronising so I merely returned the favour. I dont want nor need your advice thanks so please keep it to yourself. Im doing just fine without it. If I need advice I ask for it from people I know and whose opinion I value and who also know me.
People were literally calling me sexist and mysogonistic - these are personal and baseless insults and so I rightly told these people where to go.
If you knew me in real life you would know I am the first person to hold my hands up when Ive made a mistake, the fact I havent done that here tells you all you need to know

[Bigwan]

I've literally typed 5 different responses to this thread now and deleted them all... Some folk are so PC it makes me want to vomit...

Edit: I should add thanks for the original post DE! I've been off and watched some more of Yvette's playing solo and with her band Covet. Really good stuff.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Bigwan

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1509456578' post='3399039']
What first attracted me to my wife was her looks , is that bad ?

20 years on she's my best friend and I love her as a person

None of us can judge the OPs comment unless they know him and his underlying character.
[/quote]
i don't doubt that the OP was doing anything other than complimenting a woman on her skills and looks, apparently its the ordering of his words that make him a sexist pig.

id wager peoples focus wasn't on her looks until the first "OMG THATS SEXIST!!" comment was made, now we have had 4 pages about it.

a lot of you are acting as if he put the video up and shouted "look at this woman playing a bass, woman are only good for cooking and child rearing", and its quite unfair

Edited October 31, 2017 by RockfordStone

[EBS_freak]

It's got to be getting towards that time...

[scrumpymike]

I must say that I understand the latest comments from Sibob and dyerseve and can appreciate both positions. Rushing to judgment can be dangerous and is all too easy when communicating remotely as we do on forums.

[ahpook]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1509456590' post='3399040']
Allow me to clear a few things up:
Your replies were condesending and patronising so I merely returned the favour. I dont want nor need your advice thanks so please keep it to yourself. Im doing just fine without it. If I need advice I ask for it from people I know and whose opinion I value and who also know me.
People were literally calling me sexist and mysogonistic - these are personal and baseless insults and so I rightly told these people where to go.
If you knew me in real life you would know I am the first person to hold my hands up when Ive made a mistake, the fact I havent done that here tells you all you need to know
[/quote]

What other people were calling you is nothing to do with me - if you have a problem with them then go talk to those who were insulting to you. Please don't shift your annoyance with others onto me just because I'm the one replying to you - it's not fair in the slightest.

I'm sorry if you think I was being patronising, it certainly wasn't my intention, nor do I think I was. I would have been quite happy to discuss why I disagreed with you, but it doesn't seem you're interested.

As for needing advice, well...if you don't want people to discuss what you think then I'd not post threads on internet forums espousing your thoughts - you are rather inviting opinion, and not everyone is going to like what you say.

[Sibob]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1509457159' post='3399047']

i don't doubt that the OP was doing anything other than complimenting a woman on her skills and looks, apparently its the ordering of his words that make him a sexist pig.

id wager peoples focus wasn't on her looks until the first "OMG THATS SEXIST!!" comment was made, now we have had 4 pages about it.

a lot of you are acting as if he put the video up and shouted "look at this woman playing a bass, woman are only good for cooking and child rearing", and its quite unfair
[/quote]

Wow, you've escalated a few things there rather unnecessarily .
I'd wager that some people, subconsciously or otherwise, would have focused on her looks first as a result of having read the first thing given to them in the title...."stunning girl". It's something that is completely irrelevant to her musical output and so therefore the OP has, probably unwittingly, reduced what she's about.

Again, I've not commented on the OPs character or intentions, simply stated a position that may lead others to consider how and why they refer to others.

Si

[clivem]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1509453515' post='3399005']
The fact they didn't deem it necessary to enquire as to her name when dealing with her is one thing (regardless go them being male or female), but when they asked who they dealt with, presumably in a professional situation, didn't think it more appropriate to simply say "I'm afraid I didn't ask, but she had blonde hair", a tangible fact, not a comment on her 'cuteness'. Being so acutely unaware of what the issue is there is not that persons fault necessarily, they're not a bad person, but just them being a product of their time.
[/quote]

A product of their time? WTF, does that mean? Is that some kind of insult?

And just out of interest, how many other people upon being instructed by the dentist, to book another appointment with the receptionist on their way out, walk up to the reception desk, and immediately ask for the receptionists name? Really?

The receptionist doesn't do her job, hasn't correctly made the new appointment, for the date/time she wrote on the card she gave me..... and when I'm asked to describe the receptionist that has screwed-up so they can investigate, I say, "cute, softly spoken, blonde" and I'm the bad guy.... right, OK. Got it!!!!!

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1509458892' post='3399069']
I'd wager that some people, subconsciously or otherwise, would have focused on her looks first as a result of having read the first thing given to them in the title...."stunning girl". It's something that is completely irrelevant to her musical output and so therefore the OP has, probably unwittingly, reduced what she's about.
[/quote]

but the thing here as to whether the OP was "reducing her", comes down to intent surely?

his intention wasn't to put the video up here to start a conversation about her looks, he put it up here to display her ability and composition to a bunch of musicians, the fact she is attractive (or not) has only become relevant because he had an opinion that she was.

have we really got to a point where we can't voice our own opinion for fear of offending someone who is never likely to even read this post? the guy is copping flack for bringing us this girl's music, and i think that is unfair.

ok, maybe i escalated it. my point is, that if no one had mentioned the way he had titled it, we wouldn't be talking about it, we would be discussing the music. yes people may have thought wow she's pretty whilst watching it, but that doesn't mean they see her as an object.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='clivem' timestamp='1509459684' post='3399075']
And just out of interest, how many other people upon being instructed by the dentist, to book another appointment with the receptionist on their way out, walk up to the reception desk, and immediately ask for the receptionists name? Really?

[/quote]

i went to a meeting the other day and was greeted by a male and female receptionist, i didn't ask either of them for their names... they didn't ask me mine either, i'd like to think there is a receptionists forum somewhere discussing whether i was reduced to something less than my worth, but i'm not going to get hung up about it.

[Sibob]

[quote name='clivem' timestamp='1509459684' post='3399075']
A product of their time? WTF, does that mean? Is that some kind of insult?

And just out of interest, how many other people upon being instructed by the dentist, to book another appointment with the receptionist on their way out, walk up to the reception desk, and immediately ask for the receptionists name? Really?

The receptionist doesn't do her job, hasn't correctly made the new appointment, for the date/time she wrote on the card she gave me..... and when I'm asked to describe the receptionist that has screwed-up so they can investigate, I say, "cute, softly spoken, blonde" and I'm the bad guy.... right, OK. Got it!!!!!
[/quote]

1) Nope, if you're 'offended', I apologise.
2) Perhaps not many people would think to ask someones name when talking to them, a wider societal problem?
3) No-one is suggesting she was not at fault for not doing her job properly, but it still doesn't make it relevant or appropriate to refer to someone in their professional capacity as 'cute'.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1509459947' post='3399077']
but the thing here as to whether the OP was "reducing her", comes down to intent surely?

His intention wasn't to put the video up here to start a conversation about her looks, he put it up here to display her ability and composition to a bunch of musicians, the fact she is attractive (or not) has only become relevant because he had an opinion that she was.

have we really got to a point where we can't voice our own opinion for fear of offending someone who is never likely to even read this post? the guy is copping flack for bringing us this girl's music, and i think that is unfair.

ok, maybe i escalated it. my point is, that if no one had mentioned the way he had titled it, we wouldn't be talking about it, we would be discussing the music. yes people may have thought wow she's pretty whilst watching it, but that doesn't mean they see her as an object.
[/quote]

I imagine the OPs intention wasn't to cause any issues, but when you call out someones appearance before anything else, what do you think people are most likely to primarily consider when consuming the content? It straight away reduces the musical content (the part she's worked hardest at) to a secondary consideration. Perhaps that side of things is strong enough to then cancel out the 'looks comment', but it's already an uphill battle for female musicians in many many cases, why make it any harder? And when her looks are irrelevant to the music, why bother? It's simply a case of the OP wishing others to know he finds her stunning....

And with regards to voicing an opinion that others might never see, should we not present ourselves and our thoughts in a way that is completely respectful of others regardless of whether they see it or not? I would argue that to completely respect her music, her creative output, bringing up her looks, regardless of your opinion of them, is not the way to do it.

Si

p.s.
Covet have toured with Chon, fun fact #1

[clivem]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1509461007' post='3399091']
..... make it relevant or appropriate to refer to someone in their professional capacity as 'cute'.
[/quote]

I wasn't randomly referring to someone in their professional capacity as cute! I was specifically asked to describe her physical appearance!
I don't have a photographic memory! It was the best I could do to describe her 4 weeks later, from what I did remember. I remembered the blonde hair, soft voice, couldn't remember specific facial features, just that her overall appearance was pleasing to me, and suspect would also be considered by most other males to be attractive, so I used the word "cute".

PS. I'd still like to try and understand what you meant by, "a product of their time".