Live band mixing software

[Bilbo]

I have done a few gigs recently where the PA engineers have mixed the band through an ipad. I am interested in the technology but don't even know what to put into a search engine to look it up. Can anyone give me a steer? I am thinking about small group Jazz events rather than massive Rock extravaganzas but would like to know what opportunities this new (to me) technology presents.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

They were probably using the pad to control one of the new generation of digital stagebox mixers that don't have traditional controls (eg Behringer XR18, Allen & Heath Qu-SB etc)

[skidder652003]

yep probably an xair or something similar, we use one, theyre ok, very very sophisticated and a steep learning curve, we may go back to a desk! anyway heres the bumph..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sck2bDtGb0

Edited October 29, 2017 by skidder652003

[Woodinblack]

I have an X18, before that an XR16. Couldn't go back to a normal mixer now, just have an ipad on the microphone stand, all the leads elsewhere, easy set up and easy adjust as things are going on.

[moonbass]

I've been doing iPad mixing for a few years and wouldn't go back; the joy of fiddling with levels while buying a pint at the bar, or having a pee is entirely liberating
I started using iPad with the Soundcraft Expression 1; good option if you want a traditional desk format with added iPad. Then moved onto Soundcraft Ui16, Behringer XR18 and now X32 core. I reckon best bang for your buck is the XR18 (I wouldn't go for the small XRs as they don't do multichannel recording). But would probably suggest external router for stable connection. As well as freedom for the engineer, they allow musicians to set their own monitor levels. Much easier to do in ear mixes. Loads of effect processing options. The learning curve can be steep, but not too bad if you're used to using DAWs to record music. It is an expensive endeavour, but pros hugely outweigh cons in my mind.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1509314015' post='3398058']
I've been doing iPad mixing for a few years and wouldn't go back; the joy of fiddling with levels while buying a pint at the bar, or having a pee is entirely liberating
I started using iPad with the Soundcraft Expression 1; good option if you want a traditional desk format with added iPad. Then moved onto Soundcraft Ui16, Behringer XR18 and now X32 core. I reckon best bang for your buck is the XR18 (I wouldn't go for the small XRs as they don't do multichannel recording). But would probably suggest external router for stable connection. As well as freedom for the engineer, they allow musicians to set their own monitor levels. Much easier to do in ear mixes. Loads of effect processing options. The learning curve can be steep, but not too bad if you're used to using DAWs to record music. It is an expensive endeavour, but pros hugely outweigh cons in my mind.
[/quote]

+1

XR18 used here with an external router and ipads. Whole band on in ears so everyone controls their own mix. Really useful for multi track recording live at gigs too.

[Count Bassy]

I haven't used one, but I can't see how it's going to be easier than a desk with knobs on.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1509316127' post='3398079']
I haven't used one, but I can't see how it's going to be easier than a desk with knobs on.
[/quote]

Its an iPad with virtual knobs on it, its no more complicated than a desk with knobs on it, except you can load preset settings and change the EQ settings while looking at the sound going through it. When you do a sound check you can wander out the front, see what it sounds like and then wander back. I had a desk with knobs on it, well, I still do, I use it on the keyboards at home. I wouldn't want to use one live any more.

[TrevorR]

The digital desk we have at church also lets you mix remotely via iPad. Great as a muso as it allows all the band to set and tweak their own monitor mixes etc. We’ve got a Soundcraft desk which uses an app called ViSiRemote but I think most digital desks offer this these days.

Obviously I’m not linked to the actual desk now but here are some examples of the sort of functionality you get from the remote app... Great invention!

[Geddys nose]

We now use a Mackie ProDX8 so simple to run from any device(I use my phone) I've had a few Digital mixers
And for anyone who is scared of the change this is the easiest mixer ever. No gains to mess around with either.

The learning curve is non existent IMO.


http://mackie.com/products/prodx-series

[TrevorR]

PS the desk has knobs on too. This just means you can carry those knobs around with you and lots of you can twiddle the knobs from wherever they are at the same time.

Edited October 30, 2017 by TrevorR

[crez5150]

Have a look at the Midas MR18 or MR12 if you dont want bells and whistles.... very similar to the Behringer model (has better pre's) but has a 10 year warranty

[SpondonBassed]

Lots and lots of knob twiddling potential then. Marvellous.

[skidder652003]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1509348907' post='3398154']
Have a look at the Midas MR18 or MR12 if you dont want bells and whistles.... very similar to the Behringer model (has better pre's) but has a 10 year warranty
[/quote]
That Midas looks identical to the behringer!!!!

[crez5150]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1509349481' post='3398163']
That Midas looks identical to the behringer!!!!
[/quote]

It is apart from the Pre-amps, busses .... and the 10 year warranty

Edited October 30, 2017 by crez5150

[pmjos]

I use Allen & Heath QU series. Works really well but beware.... most of these that use an external hard drive for recording are fussy as hell and won't work with anything above 1gb. Try and even find a 1Gb external powered drive these days........ bits of the technology are way behind the times.

[Owen]

1Gb or 1Tb?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1509350856' post='3398169']


It is apart from the Pre-amps, busses .... and the 10 year warranty
[/quote]

I think it's the same other than the warranty isn't it, it's got midas pre amps afaik?

[bazzbass]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1509316127' post='3398079']
I haven't used one, but I can't see how it's going to be easier than a desk with knobs on.
[/quote]

you serious?

being able to mix the mic levels WHILST ON STAGE SPEAKING THROUGH THEM doesn't seem a tad easier?

get your levels from front of stage, left of stage, right of stage, centre of room, back of room in one go whilst walking with the ipad.....

[BigRedX]

Why do you need an external router to get the best out of some of these desks? Surely you can just create an ad-hoc network between the iPad and the desk? Besides it's yet another piece of kit adding more complexity and another potential point of failure. And like the vast majority of computer peripherals, I've yet to see a router that I would consider gig-proof.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1509434836' post='3398775']
Why do you need an external router to get the best out of some of these desks? Surely you can just create an ad-hoc network between the iPad and the desk? Besides it's yet another piece of kit adding more complexity and another potential point of failure. And like the vast majority of computer peripherals, I've yet to see a router that I would consider gig-proof.
[/quote]

Some people had issues with the inbuilt wifi router on some, mine's been fine so maybe they've addressed the issue.

As for gig proof you don't need a constant connection, once mixed it stays set to where you put it even if there's a power cut it returns to the last known settings without even turning your tablet on.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509370065' post='3398360']
I think it's the same other than the warranty isn't it, it's got midas pre amps afaik?
[/quote]
It's got "designed by Midas" preamps as opposed to the Midas preamps that they put in their own desks. To be fair, the quality of the preamps on all digital desks compared to those on desks from say ten or fifteen years ago, has made the audible difference, especially in live applications, a bit insignificant.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1509434836' post='3398775']
Why do you need an external router to get the best out of some of these desks? Surely you can just create an ad-hoc network between the iPad and the desk? Besides it's yet another piece of kit adding more complexity and another potential point of failure. And like the vast majority of computer peripherals, I've yet to see a router that I would consider gig-proof.
[/quote]
You can - but the inbuilt wifi is a bit cack. I think it's best used for testing at home etc... but the majority of people have issues with the inbuilt mixer... having said that, some people don't...

There's plenty of people using these devices very successfully.. and there are a few options available to you. A cat5 cable straight to a computer to the device will work.

A lot of people go with the Airport Express so you can airplay interval music to the XR device also.

[EBS_freak]

To add to the products mentioned above, a lot of people use the QSC Touchmix because it negates the need for an external ipad - although it does support remote connections to it. Also, worth looking at the Mackie stuff because if you are scared of app interfaces, they probably have the most simple interface out of all of them.

Feature wise, the Behringer/Midas is pretty difficult to beat for the money... I've always liked the A&H stuff too.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1509445194' post='3398892']
You can - but the inbuilt wifi is a bit cack. I think it's best used for testing at home etc... but the majority of people have issues with the inbuilt mixer... having said that, some people don't...

There's plenty of people using these devices very successfully.. and there are a few options available to you. A cat5 cable straight to a computer to the device will work.

A lot of people go with the Airport Express so you can airplay interval music to the XR device also.
[/quote]

It seems stupid, when the cost of a better router is insignificant compared with what it costs to build the mixer in the first place. That's Behringer for you. And why would you want to test with a set up you aren't going to use live? If the inbuilt router is so rubbish then it would make more sense to replace it with a RJ45 socket and for users to supply their own. That way Behringer could save even more money. Although IMO RJ45 connectors and Cat5 cables on the whole aren't sufficiently gig proof either.