Please tell me why I should avoid Ashdown amps? (aka why Ashdown are just great!)

[eddiehoffmann]

On 30/04/2018 at 09:49, thisisswanbon said:

I've always thought of them as massive tone suckers...  Every time I've tried them whether it be in store or rehearsal rooms, I've always found that no matter how I've EQ'd or what pedals run in front of it, they've always made everything sound 'smooth'.  I almost didn't buy a EBMM Sterling5 because of trying through an ashdown amp.  Took it suspecting the amp was the problem, plugged into my TC head and there was the tone!

In my experience this is what happens when the SHAPE function is engaged, which counter intuitively happens when the button is NOT pushed. I spent a long time hating ABM heads in rehearsal studios, 'till I finally realised you have to PUSH the button in order to make the EQ flat. It's such a bad design... I swear a lot of people who hate the ABM amps are just trying to make their bass sound right with that horrible shape engaged.  

[Al Krow]

21 minutes ago, eddiehoffmann said:

In my experience this is what happens when the SHAPE function is engaged, which counter intuitively happens when the button is NOT pushed. I spent a long time hating ABM heads in rehearsal studios, 'till I finally realised you have to PUSH the button in order to make the EQ flat. It's such a bad design... I swear a lot of people who hate the ABM amps are just trying to make their bass sound right with that horrible shape engaged.  

Interesting (and useful!) point. I'll look out for that next time I'm using an Ashdown ABM.

Bit like Orange amp heads which @dannybuoy pointed out on another thread need to be dialled all the way to the left to get a flat EQ and not set at 'noon' like pretty much all other amps! I wonder how many folk have similarly dismissed Orange gear 'cos they were getting the infamous Orange mushy grit which they thought was the default?

[Cuzzie]

Dismiss gear at your peril without reading the manual/understanding the finer points!

Same with Hartke - flat is 2-3/10/2-3 for Bass/mid/treb

loved my LH1000 , shame it weighted more than a dying star

[krispn]

Classic fender passive stack

[dannybuoy]

Except the Orange Terror manual has no mention of this and it's even incorrectly labelled cut/boost either side of the 12 o'clock markers!

Manual:

5. BASS CONTROL

The bass control adjusts the bass response of the amplifier.

6. MIDDLE CONTROL

The middle control adjusts the mid range response of the amplifier.

7. TREBLE CONTROL

The treble control adjusts the treble response of the amplifier.

 

 

[krispn]

Good old Orange making you work for the tone

 

[Al Krow]

An Ashdown being played with a P Bass and sounding just great! Featuring one of our 'own' very talented BC'ers: 

 

[Kevin Dean]

Nice Song as well .

[chris_b]

19 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Dismiss gear at your peril without reading the manual/understanding the finer points!

+1

Your preferences and prejudices may want to lead you into other areas but, IME armed with enough time, an open mind, a good pair of ears and the manual, most bass players can get a good bass sound out of most gear.

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, chris_b said:

+1

Your preferences and prejudices may want to lead you into other areas but, IME armed with enough time, an open mind, a good pair of ears and the manual, most bass players can get a good bass sound out of most gear.

+ 2

As a general point that is very true (although I was definitely encountering an "I can't ever get a good sound from D class amps" mindset on another thread!)

Obviously this comes with the usual caveats e.g. a  a run of the mill 1x10 cab is not going to compete with a quality 2x12 cab.  

3 hours ago, Kevin Dean said:

Nice Song as well .

Agreed!

Edited May 6, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

So far as a can’t get a good sound out of class D, to me it’s expectations.

You can’t beat a tube amp, so you cannot compare the two, and of you only accept a tune ampmsound as the sound you want, then amp vs amp the class D will always lose (without any pedals circuits etc.) but in the end your back wins!

[chris_b]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

. . . . although I was definitely encountering an "I can't ever get a good sound from D class amps" mindset on another thread!

Some people are not going to like some stuff. Maybe it doesn't fit with their aims and preferences. At the end of the day, they just prefer other stuff.

That doesn't mean that the stuff they like is "better" or the stuff they don't like is "worse".

It just means they are the same as everyone else and have a preference.

[chris_b]

5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

So far as a can’t get a good sound out of class D

You can’t beat a tube amp

Many do and can. As I just said, it's all about preference and choice.

[Cuzzie]

@chris_b mate I have a class D and love it, but I probably missed a few words speed typing.

If I re-phrase which is in line with your comments, if there is a specific tube amp sound you like, it is very difficult to re-create that sound exactly with transistors etc, that the normal harmonics and squaring of the wave form a tube will provide, it’s close but not quite the same, like comparing satsumas and clementines

Edited May 6, 2018 by Cuzzie

[Woodinblack]

5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

it is very difficult to re-create that sound exactly with transistors etc, that the normal harmonics and squaring of the wave form a tube will provide, it’s close but not quite the same, like comparing satsumas and clementines

Did you mean the rounding of the waveform with a valve (or mosfet), compared to the squaring a transistor would provide?

[Al Krow]

Speaking of mosfets (metal-oxide-semiconductor field-effect transistors), the Mesa M6 amp uses a mixture of a 12AX7 tube pre-amp with mosfet .

Weighs (rackmounted) a mere 25 lbs and can be bought from Thomann as B stock for an also mere(!) £1,400. Don't even get me started on the price of Mesa's valve amps...(although I suspect a Prodigy Four88 at 29 lbs and £2,500 from GAK is going to be lush).

The M6 sounds just great. It's a class amp. With due respect (and bringing this back on-topic), IMHO it knocks the Ashdown Geezer Doom out the park.

Then there's our backs to think of and that key goal of 'portability' ... D class anyone?  

[Cuzzie]

Yep probably right with soundforms.

i get confused especially with beer and BBQ and BC at the same time!

[krispn]

The GZR amp is a sig model so often that means an existing model is refined or tweaked to suit an individual. If Geezeer needed isolated outs for his live gig then that’s what he asked for. If his tech or a marketing guy approached Ashdown and finagled a Sig amp deal then fair play to all involved. If our understanding is it’s a souped up ABM600 with a specific tweak for a touring musician then we kinda know that if an ABM600 isn’t for you then it’s unlikely the GZR will be. Surely we’re savvy enough to marketing and advertising to know a 70+ year old isn’t necessarily going to be looking to the latests and greatest in tech. To be fair with his age a class d might be better for his back 😂 While sig gear can be very attractive it’s often idiosyncrastic too. I don’t think that’s news to any of us. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by krispn

[dannybuoy]

51 minutes ago, krispn said:

 To be fair with his age a class d might be better for his back 😂 

Geezer doesn't carry his own amps! He has a butler for that.

[Al Krow]

On 06/05/2018 at 19:04, dannybuoy said:

Geezer doesn't carry his own amps! He has a butler for that.

Speaking about Geezer, Bax have got an offer on a Geezer B stock, although it seems to still be on for a higher price than what G4M are selling them for new!

But if you've been trying to avoid getting a BTA400W because of your back, then seriously avoid checking the whopping £1,500(!!) discount available on this one (and actually even bigger discount compared to RRP - see Rimmers where they're on for £3,249):

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/b-stock/product/417575/b-stock-bta400-400w-bass-tube-amp-head#information

[Woodinblack]

35 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

But if you've been trying to avoid getting a BTA400W because of your back, then seriously avoid checking the whopping £1,500(!!) discount available on this one (and actually even bigger discount compared to RRP - see Rimmers where they're on for £3,249):

Hmm.. was looking at Nate Mendel playing one of those yesterday thinking, if I had one of those, I wouldn't have to worry about the CTM100 not being enough for some gigs. Hmm.. 400 valve watts,  I could start my own fracking company

 

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Hmm.. was looking at Nate Mendel playing one of those yesterday thinking, if I had one of those, I wouldn't have to worry about the CTM100 not being enough for some gigs. Hmm.. 400 valve watts,  I could start my own fracking company

 

Woody - I'm guessing you've seen this ad in the FS? If 400W is going to be causing minor earthquakes in the West Country then this, for half the price and 300W, could be just the ticket!

 

[Woodinblack]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Woody - I'm guessing you've seen this ad in the FS? If 400W is going to be causing minor earthquakes in the West Country then this, for half the price and 300W, could be just the ticket!

Actually, no I hadn't. If I hadn't just got the CTM, I would probably be interested but it would be crazy, I picked up a CTM300 in PMT in bristol and there is no way I could gig for one. You know they actually contain a black hole don't you? They are that heavy - it weighs exactly half of what I weighed when I was 25 (considerably smaller fraction now!) I got rid of my 4x10 a few years back due to weight and carrying options when I was having my knee replaced, I really don't think I am man enough for that. But I bet it sounds like nothing else!

Frankly there is no point having that unless you also have at least a 6 or 8x10, just from an image point of view, and I lack roadies. Or a big enough car.

Did I mention that mine was a prototype too? - only found that out talking to ashdown, I guess they have some keen salesmen

 

[Al Krow]

Fair enough!. There's a reason why they invented the D class amp right? 

The half way house (valve pre + MOSFET A/B) found in my Mesa M6 or the Aggie DB 751 is, for me, the ideal compromise between full valve goodness and more sterile D class whilst keeping things realistic for our ageing frames! (Or alternatively a D class plus a pedal board).

I've just recently liberated my M6 amp from its 2x12 Mesa PH combo housing and paired it with my VK 210. Delicious.

Ok I'm going completely off topic now...😂

 

[Cuzzie]

Not all class D are sterile, or more sterile.

D got it’s letter because it was next in the alphabet and Class C had already been coined for non-audio power, it doesn’t mean digital etc.