difference recording drums with 4 mics or more

[fiatcoupe432]

Hi guys we are about to start record one album and we are trying to do most of the work ourself. Before we recorded using as many mics possible but we were never really happy with the drums sound . i love the sounds of the drums on the album below , anyoneknows how (roughly ) were recorded?
https://youtu.be/vUihMON-sD0

[PaulWarning]

I did find out the other day about how important it is to get all the drum mics in phase, i.e. the sound reaching the mics at the same time, so if you could use one mic it would get round that problem though there is software to get round this problem

[discreet]

If you're not an expert at multi-mike drum recording, it's much easier to record with a stereo pair. The trick is to have a drummer that can (1) play, and (2) really knows how to tune the drums to get a great sound in the room.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[url="https://www.thoughtco.com/drum-recording-the-glyn-johns-method-1817865"]https://www.thoughtc...-method-1817865[/url]

I don't know how Elbow recorded theirs, but the so-called "Glyn Johns Method" is usually a good starting point - especially as Elbow's drummer doesn't take extended rambles through a Neil Peart-esque jungle of toms, from what I've heard!

The article above explains Paul's very important point about getting the overheads in phase (and how to do it), but also nods to discreet's equally important point about having a drummer who knows his/her stuff!

Edited November 2, 2017 by EliasMooseblaster

[paul_5]

Glynn Johns technique all the way.

You’ll need a good sounding kit and a good room too. I like to measure the distance between the overheads and pop a condenser mic that distance away from the centre of the snare level with the top of the bass drum - you’ll get more kick and Tom that way.

[Dad3353]

It's all about the room, if you're not close-micing (yes, I know; the room is still there, but much less so...). The kit in a corner, or in the room centre, or in the hallway... All will contribute to the final effect. Tuning the kit should go without saying, whatever the technique used. It's well worth experimenting with mic placing, moving 'em around a bit, as even a few centimetres can make a very noticeable difference in the captured sound. Some techs will listen through headphones whilst holding the mic in different positions; good ears are required for that, though, which I lack. You'll need to spend (invest..?) a bit of time to get optimum results, time not always available when renting studio space, but well worth it.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Dad3353

[adamg67]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1509622691' post='3400346'] You'll need to spend (invest..?) a bit of time to get optimum results, time not always available when renting studio space, but well worth it.[/quote]

This is pretty much what I was about to say, and it's more from knowing how not to do it than how to. Even if everyone's getting bored, you need to make sure that you've got the raw stuff sounding decent on the way in, and don't be tempted to think you can sort it out later.

[discreet]

[quote name='adamg67' timestamp='1509644618' post='3400586']
...make sure that you've got the raw stuff sounding decent on the way in, and don't be tempted to think you can sort it out later.
[/quote]

How true. A little time spent getting it right in the room is worth hours and days of 'fixing it in the mix' - and it'll still sound crap.

[roman_sub]

Subject of many books - but with 4 mics, I'd do

1 +2 - small diaphragm condensors on overheads, measure and check they have the same distance to the snare; play around with angles to get optimal kit and cymbals coverage. this takes care of most of the drum sound

3 - close mic the kick; dont worry about phase too much - but experiment inside / outside the skin. more 60/70s sound outside the shell, tighter more modern sound inside it. suggest a dynamic for this one, ideally one that can handle the loud SPL

4 - mono room mic, ideally large diaphgram condensor (ideally set to omnidirectional pickup) - set somewhere 3-7 metres away; depending the room. get the cohesive sound of a kit in a room this way.


mics 3 and 4 can be time aligned by mixer later, as needed. crucially you must have the two overheads in phase with the snare reaching them at the same time!


if you have more mics, I'd do snare, toms, hi-hat / ride in that order... but more mics aren't necessarily better (as sounds like you discovered).

may sound obvious - but you do want new skins, properly tuned drums and a decent sounding room (I prefer bright-sounding rooms with wooden floors) - and try moving the kit within the room to find the best place possible. as noted above!

good luck!

Edited November 2, 2017 by roman_sub

[fiatcoupe432]

thanks guys lots of good advises

[hrnn1234]

another thing you should keep in mind with "so few" mics, is how your drummer plays, if at all, fills.

nylon tip sticks and sand coated heads can help compensating for a soft hitter and save you time editing (ie, editing less).

[discreet]

[quote name='hrnn1234' timestamp='1509705704' post='3400992']
...nylon tip sticks and sand coated heads can help compensating for a soft hitter and save you time editing (ie, editing less).
[/quote]

Where is that soft hitter and do you have his phone number??

[BigRedX]

The fewer mics you use the more important the room and the basic sound of the kit become.

1. Make sure the sound of the kit is exactly what you want. Tune the drums properly, damp as required and make sure that there aren't any unwanted rattles and other noises (squeaky bass drum pedals etc) being produced.

2. Spend plenty of time experimenting with the best position in the room for the kit. You also want to experiment with acoustic treatment around the drum kit.

3. Only after you are completely happy that you've got a great sounding kit in the best place in the room to produce the drum sounds that you want, should you start to play with mic positioning.

[Wolverinebass]

I don't like using the Glyn Johns method. I've tried it several times and haven't liked the results. For anything with intricate parts or a dense mix it's useless.

I tend to double mic the snare and sometimes the kick, then one mic each Tom and hi hat, 2 overheads and possibly a room mic for character. That's what works best for my studio. Generally 10 channels.

If you're near SE London, I'm happy to record you.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1509730962' post='3401291']...
I tend to double mic the snare and sometimes the kick, then one mic each Tom and hi hat, 2 overheads and possibly a room mic for character. That's what works best for my studio. Generally 10 channels...
[/quote]

From the original post...

[quote name='fiatcoupe432' timestamp='1509614176' post='3400238']
Hi guys we are about to start record one album and we are trying to do most of the work o...Before, we recorded using as many mics possible but we were never really happy with the drums sound...
[/quote]

Just sayin'.

Having listened again to the track referenced in the OP, I'd say the drummer's using brushes; that makes an enormous difference to the snare (and the rest, but mostly the snare...). I don't think that that drum track was done using close micing (certainly not close micing alone...); it should be perfectly possible to get that 'feel' with four mics, as detailed in posts above.
Just my tuppence-worth.

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1509732070' post='3401308']


From the original post...



Just sayin'.

Having listened again to the track referenced in the OP, I'd say the drummer's using brushes; that makes an enormous difference to the snare (and the rest, but mostly the snare...). I don't think that that drum track was done using close micing (certainly not close micing alone...); it should be perfectly possible to get that 'feel' with four mics, as detailed in posts above.
Just my tuppence-worth.
[/quote]

True. That's what I get for reading too quickly!

4 mics can be done, but of course the room, tuning of drums and placement of mics is key as has been said.

[Sibob]

This might be of interest to you

Www.focusrite.com/focusrite-academy-recording-drums

Si // Focusrite Media Relations

[jensenmann]

Why don´t people just go to a studio with a seriously good engineer, good mics and rooms? Everybody thinks he can DIY what others learn in decades of a professional life as recording engineer. I don´t get that.

You don´t repair the brakes of your car by looking at youtube videos, do you?

[lowdown]

19 minutes ago, jensenmann said:

Why don´t people just go to a studio with a seriously good engineer, good mics and rooms? Everybody thinks he can DIY what others learn in decades of a professional life as recording engineer. I don´t get that.

You don´t repair the brakes of your car by looking at youtube videos, do you?

Anything is possible watching YouTube.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by lowdown

[fiatcoupe432]

1 hour ago, jensenmann said:

Why don´t people just go to a studio with a seriously good engineer, good mics and rooms? Everybody thinks he can DIY what others learn in decades of a professional life as recording engineer. I don´t get that.

You don´t repair the brakes of your car by looking at youtube videos, do you?

Lots of reason ! If you have budget behind then thats fine i would go to a studio and redo what i have done in the past ! I have equipment accumulated over the years of playing and i have lots of spare time to learn and practice .also depend what do you want to achieve ! On radio 6 atm are playing this guy angelo de augustine ( not my cup of tea) who recorded his album in the bathroom of his house with a 1970 s track recorder .

What i mean is : if your songs are not good no matter how much money you spend they will still be shit at the end ! So why spend thousand when with help of genorous people can achive a good sound recording ? 

 

[Sibob]

15 hours ago, jensenmann said:

Why don´t people just go to a studio with a seriously good engineer, good mics and rooms? Everybody thinks he can DIY what others learn in decades of a professional life as recording engineer. I don´t get that.

You don´t repair the brakes of your car by looking at youtube videos, do you?

It's also worth remembering that those 'professionals' are probably only in that position of knowledge by DIY'ing for decades lol

Si

[Pea Turgh]

I use an omni over the top of the kit and a kick mic - both together cost about £60 and i’m happy with the results.  I used a valve condenser front of kit in place of the kick mic once - fantastic bloom from the kick. I made a sample pack of it with my patient drummer!

[Dad3353]

+1 to this ^^ That's our standard micing-up configuration, for 'live' or most 'studio' stuff. Anything else must have a pretty good reason to be worth the hassle (and often less convincing results...).

[BigRedX]

On 11/19/2017 at 21:44, jensenmann said:

Why don´t people just go to a studio with a seriously good engineer, good mics and rooms? Everybody thinks he can DIY what others learn in decades of a professional life as recording engineer. I don´t get that.

You don´t repair the brakes of your car by looking at youtube videos, do you?

From my own experience very much this.

I've posted that link in another thread the OP started so he doesn't need to read it again, but for those who haven't seen it before it's little cautionary tale of home recording.

That's not to say the OP can't do it all himself, but he really needs to stop asking questions here and just get on and start experimenting with recording. The great advantage with having your own space and recording equipment, is that you're not constantly watching the clock and worrying that your time/money is going to run out before you get the results you are after. But you really need to be in the "studio" every day working on refining your recording skills and techniques.

[Lozz196]

We found that individually micing drums is essential, as if one mic is carrying both say a rack tom and a cymbal, in order to get the tom loud enough the cymbal then can dominate, and there`s nowt that can be done about it. Whereas if each were miced, up one, down the other, sorted.