TimR Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 No. It’s nothing to do with the energy on stage or reading the music. I’m not jealous, I’ve played in theatre pits and at brass band competitions. The playing of music is reduced from an art form to an academic exercise where the aim is to play the music exactly as written. It’s the cruise ship, holiday camp, theatreland, working mans club ‘cheese’ that they chuck out of XFactor for no musical reason other than it’s cheese. This is the type of music and band they want for society weddings and corporate events. People love it and pay big money but it’s just not for me. A case in point. I was at Butlins once where a heavy rock band where playing in the nightclub. Very good band, actually too good, note perfect solos, Drummer right on the beat but no feel, something wasn’t quite right. Then I spotted it: no tattoos, looking closer they were all wearing wigs and I realised it was the same house band that has been playing Agadoo to the kids in the ballroom 30mins earlier. That’s what I’m thinking about when I think cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1510219718' post='3404663']... Still, could have been worse...it could have been a really good band made up of guys 10 years older reading some charts.... [/quote] I think I detect just the slightest tint of sarcasm here. If one is really only interested in the auditive aspect of music, one would enjoy the passage of a series of CD's as entertainment (and I don't doubt that some do...). A 'rubbish' band is a rubbish band, whatever their stage presence, but, for my part, and having all the same some minimum standard, I prefer raw enthusiasm over sterility every time. I'm not considering visuals, either; purely the audio given off. I don't dance, and often watch a band, listening to their efforts. If they're simply 'going through the motions', at whatever technical level, I'm not moved. I've seen many a group with little to offer in the way of technical skills (heck, I've played in many, too,.!), but have always preferred those to clinicians, with the proviso that the audience are happy with them. To each his/her own, of course, and maybe it's just me, but engagement wins over mere prowess for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1510220551' post='3404666'] Ah! So the jokers I described above, "playing with passion" etc are somehow creating art by murdering 2-bit pop tunes...whereas the music and performances of Mahler, Debussy, Stravinsky, Ellington, Gil Evans etc are merely an academic exercise.... Erm, no. [/quote] A good case in point. I've seen many a concert where the performance is flat, lifeless, whereas the same work, can be, and often is, brought to life by the magic of great conductors, soloists and players giving of their best. Even more flagrant in the world of classical music, I'd say, is the importance of offering more, much more than the execution of a written piece. The music is not in the dots; it's in the musicians, and never more so than in the performance of the likes of those cited. Edited November 9, 2017 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1510220551' post='3404666'] Ah! So the jokers I described above, "playing with passion" etc are somehow creating art by murdering 2-bit pop tunes...whereas the music and performances of Mahler, Debussy, Stravinsky, Ellington, Gil Evans etc are merely an academic exercise.... Erm, no. [/quote] The jokers you described above had the dance floor full and were enjoying themselves. As do musicians performing to an academic exercise for the money. Neither is right nor wrong. One is cheese, one is an assault on ‘trained’ musicians ears. There’s an awful lot of snobbery and inverted snobbery amongst musicians. I just think we should call it for what it is. I’m just trying to identify what ‘cheese’ is to me. It’s fairly cringeworthy, just as listening to the former band is to people ‘in the know’. I learned a long time ago just to go with the flow when listening to a band. If they’ve got the dance floor full, it’s pointless to sit there grumbling that the brass section is playing legato when the original is staccato. It’ll just chew you up and ruin your night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 No. The session guys that sit in for Mowtown or for Rock bands will rarely be the same guys. Different session guys are used for different styles. The Rock band at Butlins weren’t good enough to pull it off. As someone who spent most of my teenage years listening to rock, there is a feel or a vibe as you call it. The musicians are just not interchangeable. As you say the majority of the people listening weren’t trained enough in Rock to notice. Cheese happens when people think that music is a quantifiable fact and that a good musician can play all styles interchangeably. To play Rock, Reggae, Jazz, Funk, Punk etc authentically you have to have immersed yourself in the styles for a long time. It’s not something you can fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I would class myself and many of the functions Bands I've played with as Cheese Specialists There are many types of cheese and people do love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1510229290' post='3404755'] I would class myself and many of the functions Bands I've played with as Cheese Specialists There are many types of cheese and people do love it [/quote] http://youtu.be/B3KBuQHHKx0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I say just enjoy what's in front of you for what it is & don't overthink it too much. If the band's great & it's cooking, fantastic. If it's an ensemble playing off dots, dig their craft. If the whole thing's dire, sit back & have a giggle. There's always something interesting to focus on.* *Except for acoustic duos, solo singer-songwriters & gloomy indie bands regardless of their talent. I can't abide sitting thru that stuff lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksterphil Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1509788879' post='3401599'] A recently engaged friend has asked me to recommend a band for their wedding. He says that the ones they have checked out online are quite cheesy, citing Bruno Mars as the apparent benchmark for cheese. The couple are more into the indie band thing (he's also partial to a bit of reggae/ska), but still want the place to feel like a party. Nottingham area DJ already booked Not sure whether PA is provided, but I'm assuming not Any guidance/suggestions please? [/quote] Hi Chris Try these guys [url="http://www.highwaychild.org.uk/#slide4"]http://www.highwaychild.org.uk/#slide4[/url] I was in a blues band with the drummer Rick and the singer Ryan at one point - both are excellent at what they do so their main band is likely to be pretty good and they play a wide variety of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1510227876' post='3404741'] Contrary to popular opinion, music is not actually a democracy where enjoyment of punters or performers is the qualitative benchmark. A band performing badly is just that. Rather than nitpicking about horn section phrasing; frequent vocal intonation issues, wildly fluctuating tempos (dragging mostly), seriously wrong chords and frequent timing car crashes after stops or fills equals ineptitude. Thats not musical snobbery, it's fact. Time and intonation, for example, are quantifiable - not opinion or snobbery. Many ears arent 'trained' enough to distinguish the quantifiable - and therefore factual. Too bad. To categorise some music as art and some as commercial isnt a value judgement or snobbery either. It's quantifiable. Music functions on many different levels, which is one of the beauties of it. Check out [url="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/hit-charade/403192/"]https://www.theatlan...charade/403192/[/url] as an example. Continued insistence upon musicians "performing to an academic exercise for the money" however, IS musical snobbery of the (very) inverse variety, which I hope you realise. It's also deeply, deeply ignorant BS. I just think we should call it for what it is. [/quote] I disagree with your assessment that slightly off vocals or timing make a bad band and, in the context of this thread, a bad spectacle for the masses. There's plenty of great artists who actually weren't great technically and gave great performances. They might not be your cup of lapsang souchong but Neil Young, Billy Bragg, Dylan etc are all in this category. A cover that of a pop song, done well but not note for note is absolutely the essence of a good cover. If its note for note you want book a DJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1510231344' post='3404789'] My point re Motown was that those guys, including Jamerson, were mainly Jazz musicians who were booked for the date, played a chart or cobbled one together in the studio and left without thinking about the music again until they were contacted re touring. You're incorrect on the styles thing. Plenty of folks have played on a variety of stuff. A serious dude I know has Pink Floyd, Bowie, Fleetwood Mac, Christina Aguilera, James Taylor and Spielberg movies on his CV, along with orchestral credits etc. Pretty mixed bag! [/quote] Yes, but they’re not Pink Floyd etc. The core of those bands are the artists. If any old session musician could replace them, they wouldn’t be auditioning people like Guy Pratt and sticking with them. There’s a huge human factor in each individual’s playing. The Who never sounded the same after losing Moon, it took ten years to find a Drummer that fitted, and now after losing The Ox, they’re quite possibly in serious danger of sounding cheesey. I thought most of Jamerson’s lines were improvised? . Edited November 9, 2017 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Yes. We’re in agreement there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) The Fab Four, note for note premier Beatles tribute. No music stands. https://youtu.be/QZa9eXXDifs My point, it's not an issue of whether you like it or not. It's certainly not my cup of tea. All I'm saying, I'm jealous of this level of talent. Maybe you see it in your circle. I don't see it in mine. It's sort of off topic. I'm merely debating the validity and time and place for note for note rendition. Top level tribute acts are my best example. Blue Edited November 9, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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