Jazz - what's it all about ?

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bassace' post='329620' date='Nov 15 2008, 12:19 PM']Yea, sure I've done the Kind of Blue stuff and its influence has to be acknowledged.

How's this for a Saturday stirrer? There is one, just one, CD that will bring a smile to everybody's face, that even the most hardened jazz-haters will enjoy - The Atomic Mr Basie. Go try![/quote]

A truly magnificent album!!

[Sean]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='328387' date='Nov 13 2008, 02:36 PM']Take any jazz standard that you know the melody of (e.g. My Favourite Things) and then listen to the performance whilst keeping that melody going in your head. As the players take it away from the familiar theme, you will be able to hear a relationship between the tune you know and the solo.

Eventually, you will be able to do this having only heard the main themes once and then you will really get a sense of what it is all about.[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNP9OuwCVJs"]Here's[/url] an easy one: Miles Davis doing Time After Time, surely this is accessible to anyone?

Enjoy

Edited November 15, 2008 by Sean

[lowdown]

[quote name='Sean' post='329753' date='Nov 15 2008, 05:58 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNP9OuwCVJs"]Here's[/url] an easy one: Miles Davis doing Time After Time, surely this is accessible to anyone?
Enjoy [/quote]

I was at the Festival Hall gig [ The end of this tour on you tube ]
It was a great gig...Darryl Jones on Bass and John Scofield on Geeetar,Al Foster on Kit.
I was surrounded by a load of old pub Jazz Trumpet honkers expecting to see miles
Do a bop Gig.
It was all groove stuff, no bop..
Man the moaning did not stop for the full two hours..
I ran out of cotton through stitching my sides up.

Garry

Edited November 15, 2008 by lowdown

[ianrunci]

[quote name='Lemuel Beam' post='328551' date='Nov 13 2008, 06:16 PM']indeed ..but I've heard sh*t versions by wedding/cover bands who don't know how (or can't be bothered) to reproduce the groove properly..

M[/quote]

Yeah but to be fair how many garbage versions of Jazz standards have you heard by poor bands too. That doesn't make the original a bad song.

And as for hearing it so much that its annoying, the same could be said for a million jazz standards. It doesn't detract from the fact that the original may have been a great piece of music.

There are more things to the song than the music, for example Picket was a great vocalist and his voice fitted the song like a glove.

I like anything from Chic to Iron Maiden, the style of music doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that to thing is well crafted and well performed.

[endorka]

<The Atomic Mr Basie.>

[quote name='jakesbass' post='329624' date='Nov 15 2008, 12:31 PM']A truly magnificent album!![/quote]

Couldn't agree more. I got that album when I started playing in big bands as a youth and it helped me have one of those "light bulb" moments when you realise how everything should work in a big band rhythm section. One song in particular has a magnificent bassline - "Duet" - I was even moved to transcribe the bassline on the head at the time.

The second big band album that had that effect on me was Sinatra live at the Sands, for pretty much the same reasons.

And another is pretty much anything by Duke Ellington, especially the Jimmy Blanton stuff. It swings so hard I sometimes wonder if there is any point in creating a big band nowadays, since to even come close to the musicianship, songwriting, arrangements and sheer buzz of that music seems nigh on impossible.

I would love to be shown otherwise, however :-)

Jennifer

[Count Bassy]

[quote]But this is the bottom line for me; a neatly polished version of Mustang Sally is NOT better than bad jazz, not because it is not good, because it is not professional, not tight, not well delivered etc. It is not better because I know what's coming and don't care![/quote]

" Pas d'elle yeux un que nous."

That's what Mustang Sally sounds like to you.....

You don't get it because you haven't learned to hear it yet. Its not that you can't hear it; children who have no preconceptions about music react just as positively to Mustang Sally as they do anything else. But, if all you ever listen to is hi-falluting jazz, you will struggle with something with the simple beauty of Mustang Sally.

If you ever do get into it at any stage, it is amazing how over complicated and pretentious all the stuff you used to like will sound. Its just a different way of listening and very rewarding.


With apologies Bilbo, but these arguments can be made both ways.

Runs for cover.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Clive Thorne

[Bilbo]

That's not an argument, its sarcasm, which is the lowest form of wit.

I COMPLETELY agree with the arguments against jazz musicians and tired old versions of the standards. There is a growing list of standards that I won't play. I COMPLETELY agree that a lot of jazz musicians are inately conservative and think that anything recorded after my Dad was born is too 'modern'. I COMPLETELY agree that jazz musicians are their own worst enemy and often shoot themselves in the foot by what can only be called 'low production levels'. But this is no different to every other genre of music and doesn't change the fact that 'Mustang Sally' has become a parody if itself, as have 'Midnight Hour', 'Dock Of The Bay' and 'Superstition'. Pointing the slow unmoving finger of scorn at Jazz doesn't alter that in any way.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='330452' date='Nov 17 2008, 09:40 AM']That's not an argument, its sarcasm, which is the lowest form of wit. [/quote]

It's a fair cop, you got me bang to rights, guv'nor.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='330452' date='Nov 17 2008, 09:40 AM']'Mustang Sally' has become a parody if itself, as have 'Midnight Hour', 'Dock Of The Bay' and 'Superstition'. Pointing the slow unmoving finger of scorn at Jazz doesn't alter that in any way.[/quote]

I don't know about you, but when I was a kid first learning to play bass my dream was to play at weddings each weekend, performing songs like Mustang Sally in the club singer style, maybe wearing a suit, and always maintaining an air of discreet professionalism.

That's showbiz.

[Wil]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='330452' date='Nov 17 2008, 09:40 AM']That's not an argument, its sarcasm, which is the lowest form of wit. [/quote]

I tend to think of wit as the highest form of sarcasm myself.

Did you know that the bun is the lowest form of wheat?

[WishICouldWalk]

I'd say a taste for jazz is well worth acquiring.

[BigBeatNut]

Long dead thread ... but I've only just read it ... let see if this revives it.

F F S !!! I can't believe the number of statements and opinions I've just read about jazz in its entirety .... AS IF IT WAS ALL THE SAME STUFF !!!

Would any of you ever make statements like 'all music in 4/4 is .....' 'all music with drums in it is ...' 'all music played by black musicians....'

Of course not ... it would be such a broad statement as to be totally ludicrous.

The only thing that matters at end of the day is 'do you like it'. I think that applies to any artistic endeavour. If you like it, find other people who like it and talk about it and make music with them. If you don't like it, don't bang on at the people who do, what do you think you're going to do, persuade them ? Go find some music you do like and talk about that.

And don't get hung up on arbitrary labels, particularly one as broad as Jazz.

And just to totally confuse you ... probably 95% of the stuff that gets labelled as Jazz is stuff I can't abide .... and maybe 50% of the music I'm most passionate about gets labelled Jazz .... see how useless labels are ?

FWIW, likes include John Scofield (but the 'band' stuff rather than the bop and fusion stuff) ... Medeski Martin and Wood (just great fun), Jimmy Smith (though he is also responsible for some very tedious longwinded improv. albums) ... Django Rheindhart (just blew me away at the age of 18) .... borderline jazz likes include Greyboy Allstars, Galactic, Robert Walter and Stanton Moore.

People who class themselves 'Jazz Fans' or 'Jazz Haters' might have very different ideas about which side of the line those last 4 lie on.

Me, I don't have a problem, it's all just music.

Andy

Edited January 31, 2009 by BigBeatNut

[Eight]

I wish you hadn't bumped this - I hadn't seen the thread either and if I could go back in time I wouldn't read it.

How come its fine not to like death metal, noise punk, opera or trance (just random examples) but if you don't like jazz then its because you don't know how to hear it!?!? I am not an ignorant pop-conditioned musical monkey just because I don't like "jazz" (or to avoid generalisations, any of the jazz I happen to have heard so far).

If jazz is Greek, then early industrial like Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire are [s]Latin[/s] [s]Arabic[/s] [s]Chinese[/s] Old Norse. In which case I am as high brow as you.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Eight

[Eight]

Couldn't resist some pollution
Edit: as soon as I can figure out how to post YouTube videos. LOL.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Eight

[Pookus]

Medeski Martin and Wood got me into jazz. I found a way in. I really got into tracks like Shacklyn Knights (Dropper). Chubb Subb too. Then I worked back through Herbie Hancock and modal stuff by Miles Davies. Years ago I took part in a LMC workshop on improvisation. There were essentially three main groups - Classical / orchestral musicians, jazz musicians, us. We had a great time, listening to each other and responding in suprising ways. Funnily enough some of the more established classical musicians had real problems improvising anything.

[Eight]

[quote name='Pookus' post='396420' date='Jan 31 2009, 08:39 PM']Funnily enough some of the more established classical musicians had real problems improvising anything.[/quote]
Classical studies don't really do much improv in my experience.

I can totally respect jazz musicians for that ability and its something I want to work on... just got to find a way of doing it on bass that doesn't involve jazz.

[xgsjx]

One of my alltime favourite jazz songs. Excellent voice & even better bassline. Brilliant album too if you want to get into jazz.

[url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tGbGUhYe0Ts"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tGbGUhYe0Ts[/url]

Tried to get the youtube vid to embed but failed!

Edited January 31, 2009 by xgsjx

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Eight' post='396409' date='Jan 31 2009, 08:32 PM']Couldn't resist some pollution
Edit: as soon as I can figure out how to post YouTube videos. LOL.

[/quote]

Sweetheart! They're playing our song :wub:

[Bilbo]

I don't know Elling but that is really lovely. Thanks.

[Huw Foster]

Q: What's the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist?

A: A rock guitarist plays 3 chords to a thousand people, whilst a jazz guitarist plays a thousand chords to 3 people.

[b]ARF ARF![/b]

[size=1]That's my constructive contribution to this debate. Sorry if it's already been said.

I should also add that I am neither for nor against jazz as a whole genre. There's some that I like and some that I don't.[/size]

[mrcrow]

jazz is the modern equivalent of the contrapuntal theme theory
mozart played it and was the world's first jazz pianist...erm..harpsichordist

it embodies feel and mood linked to strong underpinning modal progression without restraint

in christian music it is explained as playing in the spirit...a good nomen

[Eight]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='396995' date='Feb 1 2009, 04:49 PM']Sweetheart! They're playing our song :wub:[/quote]
Hahahaha.

Babies have been made to that, I'm sure. Er... not by me I might add.

[casapete]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='330563' date='Nov 17 2008, 12:18 PM']I don't know about you, but when I was a kid first learning to play bass my dream was to play at weddings each weekend, performing songs like Mustang Sally in the club singer style, maybe wearing a suit, and always maintaining an air of discreet professionalism.

That's showbiz.[/quote]

And here I am at 51 years of age still doing just that....cripes.

[dougal]

Anyone who's curious could do worse than watch "Jazz - A Film by Ken Burns" to learn about the origins of the genre:



Link:
[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marsalis-Ellington-Branford-Morgenstern-Eisenhower/dp/B00005M6QI/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2AFAAB92MCUD5&colid=6CCIMGVWJRUS"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marsalis-Ellington...id=6CCIMGVWJRUS[/url]

I loved it. S'awesome.

Anyway, I'm off to do some Jazz noodling, followed by the Shawshank Redemption (favourite film [i]ever[/i], doncha know).

[Eight]

[quote name='dougal' post='398863' date='Feb 3 2009, 01:08 PM']Anyone who's curious could do worse than watch "Jazz - A Film by Ken Burns" to learn about the origins of the genre:[/quote]
DVD subtitles + mute = win all round. Just kidding.

I do like The Jazz Singer (Neil Diamond version) if that makes up for my joke.