lowdown Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 [quote name='BigBeatNut' post='400594' date='Feb 5 2009, 12:52 AM']Bilbo (or anyone really, but particularly Bilbo, because I think we're more akin than I first thought) ... what do you think of this ? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc[/url] Hesitated a bit about posting it, but I genuinely want to know (suddenly remembered that our drummer emailed me the link some time ago). Andy[/quote] I like it... Infact there is plenty of power big band stuff on the link pages from your link. I like the Latin feel from the 70's/80's big bands. Some fantastic harmony going on, and well executed. Great for ear study and arranging ideas. Not every Jazzers cup of tea. You might have the "leaves me cold" / "just noodling" Police banging on your door... Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeatNut Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 [quote name='BigBeatNut' post='400594' date='Feb 5 2009, 12:52 AM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc[/url][/quote] No more opinions from the Jazz aficionados ? I know it'll wind up the anti-noodling brigade, but I'm interested in knowing more about what the jazz peeps make of it. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Enough already. It's no good. I also have a rotten headache, feel like crap (more than usual) and so the end of my tether has been reached. [i]We all have to realise that jazz is the highest form of all the arts. Only those who both listen to it and understand it are worthy and deserve our respect and admiration. Those who don't understand jazz should start be encouraged to start their slow walk towards the light. This journey will show you the error of your musical ways and you will emerge as a better player, a better musician and (sniff) a better person.[/i] Also, always remember that it will be impossible to say "you hate jazz". Your opinions will not be respected and those of the jazz persuasion will still try and change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Horrible to my ears. I listen to my pop music and suddenly realise how one-dimensional a lot of Jazz can be. None of them in that clip exhibits a shred of sensitivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='401690' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:00 AM']Horrible to my ears. I listen to my pop music and suddenly realise how one-dimensional a lot of Jazz can be. None of them in that clip exhibits a shred of sensitivity.[/quote] Please, do place your opinion of an entire genre on a single video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foal30 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 this week Jazz is all about Wayne Shorter's "Footprints" it really is the business look as for Charlie Parker I still remember the crushing feeling I got on first listening to him. You do not need to understand it to appreciate it. It's art, make up whatever reasoning you need, if you can feel it then it becomes the value of that feeling.There is no way with my limited mental capacity that I can comprehend what was going on for the composistion or performance, I just bask in the greatness of the gift. And 13 piece might blow it now but 50 years on this is still the sh*t that says if a mother can play. possible exception Giant Steps Wild generalizations on entire classifications of music used to annoy me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='400036' date='Feb 4 2009, 03:01 PM']Besides, like most Welsh people, I like good argument! [/quote] No you don't!! (shouts another Welsh bassist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='foal30' post='401739' date='Feb 6 2009, 08:06 AM']this week Jazz is all about Wayne Shorter's "Footprints"[/quote] Classic w***y Jazz title there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='BigBeatNut' post='400594' date='Feb 5 2009, 12:52 AM']Bilbo (or anyone really, but particularly Bilbo, because I think we're more akin than I first thought) ... what do you think of this ? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc[/url] Hesitated a bit about posting it, but I genuinely want to know (suddenly remembered that our drummer emailed me the link some time ago). Andy[/quote] Not my cup of tea, it's a great tune, one I've enjoyed playing many times and it's a good tempo solidity challenge as most people take it at a quick pace so it really tests your stamina and how relaxed your technique is. It's not a good example really as it's probably just the 'fast bit' in a gig that will have contained a variety of feels and tempos. They are very capable players, the bass player is holding one hell of a tempo without breaking sweat and the (chord) changes are very clearly audible. Arturo Sandoval is a great player of the instrument but to my mind always over blows little room is left for taste and choice, but then I haven't seen or heard everything he's done. He can really play, though his taste does not line up with mine. Somebody mentioned Wayne Shorter..... Now [i][b]there's[/b][/i] a man who can choose notes!!!!!! Edited February 6, 2009 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='jakesbass' post='401808' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:58 AM']It's not a good example really as it's probably just the 'fast bit' in a gig that will have contained a variety of feels and tempos. Now [i][b]there's[/b][/i] a man who can choose notes!!!!!![/quote] Thats the problem with putting up links from one point at a gig... And saying wow listen to this. It dont really say much about anything. Other than what great chops they have. And of course the Jazz haters will still says its noodling. Because.......Erm... Thats what they say about anything thats not one. [six minor]? four and five. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I've never really enjoyed Cherokee much; I've always found it unsatisfying to play. It was written by Ray Noble, a brit born in Brighton who moved to the states when he was 27 and made a name for himself as a composer and bandleader. I've never regarded him much as a jazzer though. I also dislike very up-tempo stuff like the track here. It might be clever but it doesn't swing. There are better examples of Arturo Sandoval's work, Arturo Sandoval and the Latin Train CD for instance. There's a great track of I Can't Get Started with Joe Williams on vocal and some great Bass Guitar playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bassace' post='401834' date='Feb 6 2009, 10:22 AM']Arturo Sandoval and the Latin Train CD for instance. There's a great track of I Can't Get Started with Joe Williams on vocal and some great [b]Bass Guitar playing[/b].[/quote] Thats just fantastic, And after all, this is General Bass discussions. Garry Edited February 6, 2009 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Thought you'd like that one! Just because I play double bass it doesn't mean I can't enjoy some well-played BG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='BigBeatNut' post='400594' date='Feb 5 2009, 12:52 AM']Bilbo (or anyone really, but particularly Bilbo, because I think we're more akin than I first thought) ... what do you think of this ? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzWPNFX7sc[/url] Hesitated a bit about posting it, but I genuinely want to know (suddenly remembered that our drummer emailed me the link some time ago). Andy[/quote] Playing Jazz trumpet looks like a piece of piss. As far as I can tell, you just blow into it and move your fingers randomly as quickly as possible. Then, when someone says its noodling, you tell them that they don't "get it" and should f*** off back to listening to Bucks Fizz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='401920' date='Feb 6 2009, 12:14 PM']Playing Jazz trumpet looks like a piece of piss. As far as I can tell, you just blow into it and move your fingers randomly as quickly as possible. Then, when someone says its noodling, you tell them that they don't "get it" and should f*** off back to listening to Bucks Fizz.[/quote] Like Miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeatNut Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='lowdown' post='401830' date='Feb 6 2009, 10:18 AM']Thats what they say about anything thats not one. [six minor]? four and five.[/quote] Not fair, really, not in regard to me at least. I'm sure I could find examples of what I'd call noodling (jazz-noodling or whatever-noodling) over a twelve-bar or single chord and plenty of examples of non-noodling, beautiful jazz tunes over extremely non-obvious chord progressions ('Round Midnight', 'Idle moments'). Qualification: noodling means to me piece of music which is (1) instrumental and fast and (2) generates no emotional response (for me), and as result (for me) devolves into nothing more than a technical exercise, probably by extremely, even awesomely, talented musicians. If your emotional response to a given piece of music is different to mine (and that does seem to be the big differentiator here) then we're (reasonably) never going to agree on whether it's noodling or not. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeatNut Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='jakesbass' post='401808' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:58 AM']Not my cup of tea, it's a great tune, one I've enjoyed playing many times and it's a good tempo solidity challenge as most people take it at a quick pace so it really tests your stamina and how relaxed your technique is. It's not a good example really as it's probably just the 'fast bit' in a gig that will have contained a variety of feels and tempos. They are very capable players, the bass player is holding one hell of a tempo without breaking sweat and the (chord) changes are very clearly audible. Arturo Sandoval is a great player of the instrument but to my mind always over blows little room is left for taste and choice, but then I haven't seen or heard everything he's done. He can really play, though his taste does not line up with mine. Somebody mentioned Wayne Shorter..... Now [i][b]there's[/b][/i] a man who can choose notes!!!!!![/quote] Okay, seen a fair bit of comment on this video now, and this is a good lauchpad for my view. Note: This is about one video performance, not about one band or musician, one song, most definitely [i][b]NOT[/b][/i] about entire musical genre. I can't hear a key (tone center, whatever) I can't hear a chord progression, I can't detect a time signature, I have absolutely no idea where the one is (which means I can't tap my feet to it). It does have a bit of discernible melody where they slow down a bit. And that means that for me (and remember I'm only talking about MY reaction to ONE performance, and not trying to diss an entire genre) it holds about as much musical interest as a roomful of squalling babies .... and this despite the fact that those are a bunch of truly, awesomely talented musicians. Two more points on that from me. 1) I'm not an out-and-out jazz basher .... there's plenty of jazz I do like. 2) I'm intrigued by the fact that Jakesbass and others find some (or a lot) of value in this performance. This may be pointing to the fact that I have a diminished musical perception compared to some (e.g. I couldn't find the one in that piece, evidenced by inability to foot-tap). Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='401920' date='Feb 6 2009, 12:14 PM']Playing Jazz trumpet looks like a piece of piss. As far as I can tell, you just blow into it and move your fingers randomly as quickly as possible. Then, when someone says its noodling, you tell them that they don't "get it" and should f*** off back to listening to Bucks Fizz.[/quote] I think Bucks Fizz is a bit high brow for you BBC, I think you'd fare rather better to the sound of skulls being clubbed by knuckle dragging Mancunians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) What do I think of that GRP All-Stars trumpet section video? Load of horses***. I know where the one is and I can hear the changes - I know the tune and have played it although, like bassace, I am not a lover of the tune. As someone said, the performance doesn't swing, it is emotionally empty and exists only to show that these 4 trumpters can play very fast and very high. Its a malaise that has existed in jazzsince its exception and this kind of showboating is a renowned failing in trumpet players (the jazz version of lead guitarists. All I can say in excusing this excess is that someone must have thought that, in the context of a full evenings performance, this might be a bit of fun. But, as an advert for jazz, it is a gift to tBBC and those others who seek to ridicule it. And I have heard Randy Brecker play SOOOO much better... Edited February 6, 2009 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bilbo230763' post='402066' date='Feb 6 2009, 03:12 PM']What do I think of that GRP All-Stars trumpet section video? Load of horses***. I know where the one is and I can hear the changes - I know the tune and have played it although, like bassace, I am not a lover of the tune. As someone said, the performance doesn't swing, it is emotionally empty and exists only to show that these 4 trumpters can play very fast and very high. Its a malaise that has existed in jazzsince its exception and this kind of showboating is a renowned failing in trumpet players (the jazz version of lead guitarists. All I can say in excusing this excess is that someone must have thought that, in the context of a full evenings performance, this might be a bit of fun. But, as an advert for jazz, it is a gift to tBBC and those others who seek to ridicule it. And I have heard Randy Brecker play SOOOO much better...[/quote] +1 (except I quite like Cherokee in the right hands) Edited February 6, 2009 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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