Fretless bass - what would you recommend?

[Al Krow]

Guys,

I'm thinking of dipping my toes into the world of fretless bass for the first time which would likely be used for some of the 'smoother numbers' in a 50s / 60s or 'lounge' / 'jazz' set.

I've got a budget in mind of up to £750 to £1,000 and happy to consider used as well as new - but it would be nice to get something that could potentially be a 'keeper'.

Grateful for some pointers from my fellow BCers who have a lot more experience with fretless than me on any of the following:

1) your recommendation for an excellent make / model in the price range?
2) PUPs - I'm guessing that smoother pups (e.g. Barts) make more sense than something more gritty or aggressive (e.g. Nords)?
3) I was thinking of going for a 4 string but does the flexibility of positioning on the fretboard (I guess 'fingerboard' is the more correct description on a fretless bass!) and the ability to go lower on a fretless 5 string add a lot in your experience?
3) fret (finger) board wood - rosewood and ebony seem to be the most commonly used. Any preferences?
4) does a 'neck through' make a difference?
5) I'm guessing flatwound strings are a must, agreed?
6) anything else I should be looking out for?

Many thanks for your input in advance and hopefully this will be a useful thread for a number of fellow BCers in addition to me!

Cheers, AK

[Highfox]

I maybe wouldn't spend that much at first if you are not sure.
For example, I picked up an old fretless Ibanez Musician a few years back and it's very nice bass, neck-thru and 2 pickups, active and passive mode. (roundwounds for me on it ) very easy to play. Might look a bit old school, but I like that.

I did have a lined fretless jazz at one point, but didn't get on with that, prefer just the dot markers for some reason.

If you can get to try a few basses out that would be best I think.

[Grangur]

FWIW I think your budget should get you a good used bass. The fingerboards I've played, in order of preference, have been ebony, purpleheart, ebonol and rosewood.

When buying any fretless, remove the strings and run your hand down the the length to feel all down the fingerboard for slight lunps/ dips. Any slight dips will spoil the Mwahhh. Knowing your tastes as I do, these variations in the sound would bug you.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Grangur

[pete.young]

I'd recommend you take a good look at this: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/314131-ibanez-srf700-portamento/

[Drax]

Some of the questions you're asking are down to personal preference, and it's unlikely you'll buy 'the keeper' until you've worked out the answers yourself through getting some hours in.

For me two key questions are[list]
[*]Lined or Unlined.
[*]JJ or PJ. Active or Passive. A dance as old as time, all answers valid but entirely your taste.
[/list]
Fingerboard woods, neckthrough are less of an issue.
Strings - flats, rounds, tapes all good. Again, depends on the music, taste, weather and mood..

I started on the excellent Squier VM Jazz fretless. £230 or so. Great instrument, and got me through a lot of jazz gigs no problem. It was only through playing for that for a while that I was able to work out my preferences.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Drax

[Woodinblack]

I got a squier VM Jazz fretless, which let me know what I wanted and didn't. I wanted the Ibanez portamento (srf705) 5 string, which I got and am very happy with as its playability and sound are much better but if you haven't had a freltess before I would go for something really cheap to see if it is something you can get on with long term. But then the ibanez necks are where I am most comfortable, so it is an obvious choice for me.
I don't really use the main pickups that much at all, I tend to stick with just the piezo pickup.

[BigRedX]

If you like Fender designed get the Squier Vintage Modified Fretless Jazz.

If you don't like Fenders get the Ibanez Gary Willis bass.

[ezbass]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1509875610' post='3402192']
I'd recommend you take a good look at this: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/314131-ibanez-srf700-portamento/"]http://basschat.co.u...700-portamento/[/url]
[/quote]Beat me to it.

I'd also throw this into the mix. I had my US SUB defretted and a fine fretless it was too http://basschat.co.uk/topic/313037-musicman-sub-american-fretless/page__hl__sub__fromsearch__1

Edited November 6, 2017 by ezbass

[Marc S]

As others have said. The Squier Vintage Modified Fretless Jazz is a good starting point
I say this, as I don't know whether you've played or owned a fretless before?
Also, they're damn good value for that sort of money, whether you have or haven't played before

I had one, and it was rather lovely (it was nicely re-finished in a cracking colour too). I foolishly sold it to get myself a Fender fretless P
In all honesty, the US Fender wasn't that much better build quality, and in fact, I preferred the 2 pickup sound of a Jazz, as it seemed to suit the fretless sound
.... so I sold the P and bought myself a Fretless Jazz again! lol

Try the VM Jazz, and you might well be pleasantly surprised - better still if you can get one second-hand on the marketplace here

Edited November 6, 2017 by Marc S

[edstraker123]

I tried a Cort B4 first which was o.k. but the Marusczyck Elwood absolution is a whole different ball game

[roman_sub]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1509871720' post='3402149']
Guys,

I'm thinking of dipping my toes into the world of fretless bass for the first time which would likely be used for some of the 'smoother numbers' in a 50s / 60s or 'lounge' / 'jazz' set.

I've got a budget in mind of up to £750 to £1,000 and happy to consider used as well as new - but it would be nice to get something that could potentially be a 'keeper'.

Grateful for some pointers from my fellow BCers who have a lot more experience with fretless than me on any of the following:

1) your recommendation for an excellent make / model in the price range?
2) PUPs - I'm guessing that smoother pups (e.g. Barts) make more sense than something more gritty or aggressive (e.g. Nords)?
3) I was thinking of going for a 4 string but does the flexibility of positioning on the fretboard (I guess 'fingerboard' is the more correct description on a fretless bass!) and the ability to go lower on a fretless 5 string add a lot in your experience?
3) fret (finger) board wood - rosewood and ebony seem to be the most commonly used. Any preferences?
4) does a 'neck through' make a difference?
5) I'm guessing flatwound strings are a must, agreed?
6) anything else I should be looking out for?

Many thanks for your input in advance and hopefully this will be a useful thread for a number of fellow BCers in addition to me!

Cheers, AK
[/quote]
1) depends what you like. I'd aim for a US / MIJ Fender if you like classic sounds, or perhaps Sandberg / Warwick / Carvin for something more modern - in your price range.
2) I preferred Barts over EMGs when I had an active fretless. I wasn't a fan of hi-fi EMG tones personally, though it is nice to have some treble definition and growl via the pickups.
3) I preferred feel of ebony but not much in it IMO.
4) in my experience, neckthrough's have stronger fundamentals and tad more sustain, but less attack than bolt-ons. I prefer the sound I am getting from a fretless bolt-on.
5) You will get some wear whatever you choose, though heavy playing touch and stainless steel strings will do the most damage quickest. Not everyone likes the sound of flats - so just go with the sound that you like and don't worry.
6) get a lined fingerboard - purely in % terms (to paraphase Scott Devine) - there are more lined players who are in tune than unlined players...

hope this helps!

Edited November 6, 2017 by roman_sub

[dannybuoy]

Get a fretless Stingray or Ray34 for that Paul Young / Pino vibe.

Or the semi acoustic Godin A4 Utra, I love mine... There's one for sale on here but unfortunately it's the older one without the additional magnetic pickup which makes a huge difference.

[Al Krow]

Guys - thanks for some very helpful comments so far, which I have been avidly reading. Please keep your thoughts / suggestions coming.

Not sure where I stand on Fenders / Fender body shaped fretless basses. I've got a Sandberg TM and it's been my goto bass for several years and the [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Sandberg_Panther_5_Fretless.html"]Sandberg Panther fretless[/url] is a truly gorgeous bass, but they are way beyond what I'm looking to pay - one of these sold second via Bass Direct for just a smidgen under £2k recently.

As Woodinblack (and various others of you!) will know I'm a big fan of Ibbys following my 'discovery' this year of the SR Premium range and a few of you have mentioned the Ibby Portamento in the FS section. This is very much on my radar and I have already been in touch with the seller - he will be in London on the 23rd Nov (if he hasn't sold it before then) and I can see it 'in the flesh' and perhaps even get a chance to hear it played before taking a decision on it.

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1509994929' post='3403134']
2) I preferred Barts over EMGs when I had an active fretless. I wasn't a fan of hi-fi EMG tones personally, though it is nice to have some treble definition and growl via the pickups.
[/quote]

@'roman sub' thanks very much for your point by point response, which was indeed helpful! I was struck by your comment on the pups and 'nice to have some treble definition and growl'. I actually love the growl on the Warwicks (as Grangur knows having helped me pick out and then beautifully refi my Corvette $$ 5er) but I had assumed that this would be more appropriate for 'rock' and much less so for the 'smoother' set numbers that I'm likely to be using a fretless on?

So if a pup 'growl' also works on jazzier / smoother / bluesly numbers then there's a Warwick Bubinga Fretless in the FS section which I'm also hopefully going to get a chance to try out very soon given that the seller is a fellow East Londoner.

Confession: I've never really come across Schecter basses but this [url="https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Schecter-Stiletto-Studio-4-FL-Bass-GuitarHoney-Satin/1N8T#full-des"]Stiletto Studio 4 neck-through[/url] did turn my head...I'll also post the link on the Schecter thread I've started to see if they've any views on this for good or ill.

Further thougths on my OP or on any of the above are very welcome!

[Hellzero]

This is the deal of the moment : https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/dispannonce.php?annonce=1480926

I played the exact same model for 5 years in my fusion band and it's been my main bass during that time... Maybe it's mine as it's been well toured at the time.

[Hellzero]

This MTD is a good deal too, it's a Czech model so almost as good as the American one : https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/dispannonce.php?annonce=1410363

[LoneFurrow]

If you're considering a 5 string fretless, there's a nice MTD Kingston ZX5 for sale in this very forum. It's not mine, but looks rather smart:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/311684-mtd-zx5-fretlessprice-drop-700l/page__p__3400771__hl__zx5__fromsearch__1#entry3400771

As you're in London, it might be worth heading north to Camden to visit The Bass Gallery. They have a very nice Yamaha TRB5FII:

http://thebassgallery.com/bass/fretless/trb5fii.html

Personally, I found the neck a bit skinny for my tastes, but it's in great condition, and plays beautifully. There's also a magnificent Sadowsky NYC 5 string fretless, but that's a completely different proposition, and price bracket!!

[tom5string]

Morning,

please check out Maruszczyk basses:

[url="https://www.public-peace.de/bass-guitars/fretless-basses"]https://www.public-p...fretless-basses[/url]

I played an Elwood 5 in the chambered version (5L) for long years. Really nice sounding, leightweight (3.7 kg), no frills, just a passive bass made of decent tonewoods. Some listed on the web-site sell new within your price range.

Cheers,
Tom

Edited November 7, 2017 by tom5string

[pmjos]

If you can pick up and old Ibanez Musician you would be getting something made by hand with a fabulous range of tones. I had one for a long time. It cost me £500 it. When I wanted to go upmarket I had to spend another 4 grand to better it. Fantastic gorgeous basses.

[roman_sub]

Look around for fretless Sandbergs - I was offered a 5er well within your price range (i don't think they keep their value so well (un)fortunately). That one has gone though.

re: fretless - single biggest difference is that you will no longer have metal strings vibrating against metal frets. IME, unless you are shooting for a strictly upright type tone, you will want still [i]some[/i] growl / attack. Whether that's from woods, pickups / pickup placement / hard (epoxied) fingerboard - is down to each player.

If you like Warwicks, I know fretless Thumbs are supposed to be spectacular. I had a fretted one, but found it a bit too much harmonically - though I can indeed see how it would have the right components for top fretless tones.

[Paul S]

If you wanted to test the water rather than jump in I would pitch in the idea of a Westone Thunder 1A fretless. Fabulous tone and a cool unlined board. IMO they are a class above most others at the price point and if you don't like it or want to move on you'll get your money back.

[Al Krow]

Grangur has just very kindly dropped off his two fretless basses for me to try out for a couple of weeks:

Squier Precision - this has surprised me already at what a lovely bass it is to play in terms of weight, balance and neck; and

Warwick Streamer LX - with a single coil bridge pup and P bass neck pup set up. With flatwounds the Warwick 'growl' (which is great for rock) is very much more restrained and which, for me, is completely in line with the smoother sound I'd like to be getting from a fretless.

Well my initial reaction already is that it would be great to be playing fretless - as part of having a flexible / versatile set of basses. It's definitely going to be easier to get up to speed on this than my upright Stagg EUB, although to be fair there is never going to any comparability on how 'cool' an upright is always going to be regarded by an audience as compared to a fretless, which they will no doubt assume to be just 'another' bass guitar

Now just the small matter of narrowing down my choice of fretless bass...

[BigRedX]

Really you just need to get out there and play as many fretless basses as you can. That's what I did when I started playing fretless. I started with a cheap defretted Wesley Acrylic and worked my way up from there. In the end because of what I had worked out I needed, I had Sei build me a custom Off-set Flamboyant:



If I hadn't wanted a 5-string I would have probably kept the Pedulla Buzz I bought which was easily the next best fretless I have ever owned.

[Woodinblack]

That looks good. I always wondered why on the ibanez portamento as they have gone to the trouble of extending the neck down to the 30th fret why they just didn't make the top of the pickups the same wood and put a ramp in there too.

[Al Krow]

On 08/11/2017 at 11:15, Woodinblack said:

That looks good. I always wondered why on the ibanez portamento as they have gone to the trouble of extending the neck down to the 30th fret why they just didn't make the top of the pickups the same wood and put a ramp in there too.

 

Must admit that the Ibby Portamento is looking like an attractive option. Any views on the Bartolini MK-1 pups? The noise cancelling split coil is actually a real plus point for me, as living in central London any coil hum seems to get accentuated by the generally 'electric' environment with tube lines etc in the vicinty.

"Bartolini MK-1 Pickups
The MK-1 pickups are a split coil design that provides a very wide frequency range and enhanced definition for maximum accuracy. The Neck and bridge pickups have equal response, like traditional single coils, but without the hum and noise."

Grangur's Warwick Streamer LX fretless was both really lovely and coil hum free even on the single coil, which was a pleasant surprise. But something of that quality and pedigree is going to be more than I should properly be thinking about spending at this stage in my fretless journey.

[Woodinblack]

They are ok, they work fine on that bass, not sparkling and angry, but that is not the right thing for a fretless anyway I guess. To be honest, I mostly use the piezo when I am playing it, gives a lovely sound.

It is odd the layout on that bass, as it is like the normal ibanez pickups and then another thing tacked on, as you can blend between the front and back, but have separate volumes for the piezo and the coil pickups themselves, as well as separate tone for each. Very much like two completely separate parts to the same thing.