setting Intonation

[PaulWarning]

now I don't get too hung up on intonation but I've just fitted new strings to my MIA P bass and I thought I'd check the intonation, now if I set it the perceived way same note open and on the 12 fret the first 5 or 6 frets tend to be sharp (I believe this is not uncommon) which is where I do most of my playing, so I was thinking should I set it to be right on those frets or in the conventional way?

[franzbassist]

I always use harmonic and fretted at the 12th, not open and fretted.

[roman_sub]

Two things I can think of - 1) check you are not fretting too hard and pulling strings out of tune. You may be fretting too lightly on the 12 fret when checking intonation versus how you fret normally? 2) check nut is not cut too high.

Assuming neither issue is responsible for the sharp (how sharp are we talking by the way?), then yes try adjusting intonation accordingly. It's a compromise either way, so if there are no other problems, i'd suggest it would be sensible to try to get these notes in tune.

[rmorris]

First stop: nut height ?

[nilebodgers]

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1510231752' post='3404806']
... 2) check nut is not cut too high.

...
[/quote]

I'd suspect that, it's certainly a common problem on guitars.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='rmorris' timestamp='1510232845' post='3404833']
First stop: nut height ?
[/quote]don't think so, if I fret at the 2nd there's no gap on the first, if that makes sense

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1510231752' post='3404806']


(how sharp are we talking by the way?),
[/quote]that's the rub, electronic tuners are incredibly accurate, certainly doesn't sound sharp, that's why I'm not too hung up about it, as you say it can change depending how I fret, it's something like 20% of a semi tone, I'm probably being too pedantic about it, just interested in other peoples experiences I suppose

[roman_sub]

I would say that 20 cent is quite a lot! (assuming we're talking about the same tuning inaccuracy). I think that would clash noticeably with guitars. I think up to 2-4 cent one could live with (providing it's gradual and neighbouring notes are offset by similar amounts), but if we are talking 20 then that would be an issue in my book.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1510235401' post='3404874']
I would say that 20 cent is quite a lot! (assuming we're talking about the same tuning inaccuracy). I think that would clash noticeably with guitars. I think up to 2-4 cent one could live with (providing it's gradual and neighbouring notes are offset by similar amounts), but if we are talking 20 then that would be an issue in my book.
[/quote]not sure what I can do about it, the G string is cock on, so I don't think it's a neck issue, the other stuff,string height relief are set by the book

[roman_sub]

Hmmm, I suppose you could try measuring the tuning if you fret as lightly as you can? if that significantly improves the situation, this may be (partially) a technique issue.

You could try changing the string height (and intonation) to see if there is a way to improve it.

You said the lowest frets are sharp - what about the higher frets? If the entire fretboard is off, then I think it may still be due to how intonation is being set. If it's only the lowest frets (and rest of the fingerboard intonates seems fine on these strings), typical wisdom suggests mix of: excessive fretting force, nut being cut too high, or, in the extreme case - incorrectly placed frets....

Maybe consider taking the bass to a good local luthier to assess. Or at least have someone else play it for a second opinion?

Or maybe have a look at the saddle spacing - is something funny happening with which saddle 'slots' you are using?

Edited November 9, 2017 by roman_sub

[roman_sub]

/ or could be a problem with the strings themselves... did you go up a string gauge by any chance? in case the nut slots need adjustment..

sorry that's my brainstorming of ideas done!

Edited November 9, 2017 by roman_sub

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1510231734' post='3404804']
I always use harmonic and fretted at the 12th, not open and fretted.
[/quote]
walbassist is right here. Do the harmonic at the 12th then fretted at the 12th. Open and fretted 12th is not going to give you a good indication of intonation.

Re-intonate on that basis and then let us know if it's still got a problem. I think that will sort it...but if it is still a problem, then we can then all pile in and REALLY confuse the issue

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1510251917' post='3405081']
walbassist is right here. Do the harmonic at the 12th then fretted at the 12th. Open and fretted 12th is not going to give you a good indication of intonation.

Re-intonate on that basis and then let us know if it's still got a problem. I think that will sort it...but if it is still a problem, then we can then all pile in and REALLY confuse the issue
[/quote]cheers just done that it's loads better

[franzbassist]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1510253153' post='3405108']
cheers just done that it's loads better
[/quote]

[Andyjr1515]

Excellent

[Frankieabbott]

Hope that youve sorted your intonation op. On a personal note, I like to check/get the intonation right for the first 8 frets or so on all strings cos thats where I play mostly. It sometimes means that the intonation goes a little flat up towards the 12th fret and above. I dont mind it being a little flat as I can fret a note a little harder/bend it into tune up there. 

[PaulWarning]

4 hours ago, Frankieabbott said:

Hope that youve sorted your intonation op. On a personal note, I like to check/get the intonation right for the first 8 frets or so on all strings cos thats where I play mostly. It sometimes means that the intonation goes a little flat up towards the 12th fret and above. I dont mind it being a little flat as I can fret a note a little harder/bend it into tune up there. 

yes got it sorted, not sure what I was doing wrong to be honest, it was the same note open and at the 12th with a tuner but first few frets were sharp, then I redid using the harmonic and it was ok and it's still right open and on the 12th fret, must just be more accurate the harmonic way I guess, but yes if you have to decide it's better to be right on the first 5 frets than down at the dusty end

[LewisK1975]

Has anyone one here ever sourced extra long intonation screws? 

I changed the neck on a Bass of mine and the replacement vs original has a bit more wood after the last fret.

I can get the intonation correct, but the screws are only then half-way thru the saddles....

Trying to avoid having to re-drill to move the bridge forward...

Any other ideas?

[rmorris]

Do you know the thread spec' of the saddles ?

[LewisK1975]

1 hour ago, rmorris said:

Do you know the thread spec' of the saddles ?

Cheers, I don't know unfortunately....

I did think it could be solved easily on the E/A string by using screws designed for D/G saddles, which are usually longer.......

Still not sure how to tackle the D/G though......

[MoonBassAlpha]

If it's Japanese made, the threads will probably be metric. Might be able to help out with longer M3 screws.

[LewisK1975]

10 hours ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

If it's Japanese made, the threads will probably be metric. Might be able to help out with longer M3 screws.

Thanks MBA, it was an Indonesian made 2001 Squier 'standard' PJ.  I got a lovely MIJ precision neck for it.

By the time I finish with it, all that'll be original is the Body itself.