London bass guitar show 2018

[CliveT]

On 05/03/2018 at 10:37, police squad said:

I went yesterday and Guy Pratt's dismissal of flat wound strings REALLY made me chuckle. I went home and listened to Like a prayer by Madonna and I'd always thought t was a sequenced bass line and also to Jimmy Nail's 'ain't no doubt'

I couldn't take Mo Foster at all. I don't really listen to a lot of Jazz but they were reading and the first number was a bit loose in places, like they hadn't played it before and I left during his 2nd number. I realise that he's done a lot of stuff but not for me.

Gear wise, there was a nice Muruscahwwwzzeeeee (what ever) on bass direct's stand. A white Elwood with a white fingerboard.

I don't understand these singlecut things, they all look a bit ridiculous to me. Enfield basses look good and I said hi to Nick.

Always good to see Jason Howe.

Would have stopped at the BC stand but I always seemed to be going somewhere, to a master class or the loo or coffee.

I saw Guy on Saturday,  on good form.  What did he say about flatwound strings?  I'm guessing from your comment he doesn't use them?

[Andy]

13 hours ago, Sibob said:

You'd perhaps like to think that supporting and engaging with the community had some value?!

Fingers crossed

Si

Absolutely! I'd love to see Wal at the show alongside GB, Overwater and the host of other great UK luthiers ....... a  UK room perhaps??   .

It was fantastic to see them at the South East  bass bash a couple of years ago.

 

[TRBboy]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

In reality, most independent luthiers aren't hitting minimum wage - but what they don't earn in money, they have a job which many, love doing. Its interesting to see how many luthiers have come out of the rat race as they realised that they were ultimately unfulfilled doing the 9 to 5.

This is pretty much where I'm at....  .  Would love to ditch the rat race and build basses, even if i don't earn as much! I'm an ex carpenter so have skills... but I've never made a bass before.... making and fretting the neck, i wouldn't be sure where to learn those skills.... confident i could do the rest competently. 

If anyone has any advice I'm all ears! 

[EBS_freak]

8 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

This is pretty much where I'm at....  .  Would love to ditch the rat race and build basses, even if i don't earn as much! I'm an ex carpenter so have skills... but I've never made a bass before.... making and fretting the neck, i wouldn't be sure where to learn those skills.... confident i could do the rest competently. 

If anyone has any advice I'm all ears! 

Just get making in your spare time and get it all refined. You have to learn through trial and error - also, repairing other basses I guess.

There is no one method for building instruments- that's what makes each luthier interesting. You only have to look at the jigs for putting a radius on a neck for example. Each luthier has their different approaches -  I absolutely adore Schack's take on the neck join for example.

You may find some of the luthier groups on facebook interesting - there's lots of novel ideas shared on there.

Edited March 6, 2018 by EBS_freak

[ezbass]

Following my visit and being knocked out by Bobby Vega, I’ve been playing with a with pick on songs I’d never consider playing with one. It has been quite revealing on how much fun it can be. Not everything works, but I was surprised by the songs that it did work with, especially as it added an even more funky vibe (I Wish for example). Check out his album ‘Sketches of Bob’ on Spotify.

Sad to hear that the Eich stand was still loud on Sunday, it really isn’t fair on the other exhibitors or any nearby clinics (SBL’s was in the room next door). When I was watching Guy Pratt on the main stage, there was someone from the exhibitors section plainly audible during his stand up; that’s gotta be too loud, surely. This seems to be a common complaint every year, but nothing is ever done about it beyond lip service.

[Silvia Bluejay]

There was a person walking around holding a sound meter and marking the quiet and noisy periods of each hour with an air siren. Having said that, once you've yelled at a stand telling them to turn down, unless you stay there all the time to check, they'll turn up behind your back. When I say 'they' it may very well be YOU (not you personally, EZ) who crank it up because you want to hear yourself and you don't realise how loud you are, even in the absence of volume wars (which is an often-used excuse by those who actually start them, rather then being drawn into them).

[EBS_freak]

Its always a fine line... and the end of the day, the amp manufacturers are there for one reason. To help sell amps. If people can't try the amps, then they won't sell. If the amp manufacturers aren't given a chance for them to run their rigs at volume, there isn't really any point of them being there. If they aren't there, the show organisers aren't going to have any exhibitors or income. No exhibitors, no income, no show. Ultimately, the exhibitors are the one with the power - if they aren't satisfied with the ability to show off their wares or realise an increase in revenue that can be traced back to them being at the show, they simply won't book a stand again... hence why some notable names may be missing... or they simply because they don't need to be there.

[police squad]

32 minutes ago, CliveT said:

I saw Guy on Saturday,  on good form.  What did he say about flatwound strings?  I'm guessing from your comment he doesn't use them?

someone asked whether he uses them and he just laughed. He said only guitarists that own a bass would bother with flatwounds as they know nothing about bass. Something along those lines.

He uses bass centre stadium elites, has done for years. It just made me laugh, there's so much love for flats these days (even I'm thinking about a set) but an old pro, just uses rounds and has no interest in changing.

He just cracked me up

[skelf]

With regard to a hand built budget line. I have tried this twice the Graft Series and the Standard Series. My thinking was that it would open up the possibility of a hand built instrument at a price point that would allow players to have this option and dip a toe in the hand built world. They were dropped because no one was interested in them. On top of that I think I damaged my brand by doing them in that there is a section of the market that assumes a lower priced hand built bass has something wrong with it or is cheap because it is crap. This I feel has done me no good in trying to get where I want to be.

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, skelf said:

With regard to a hand built budget line. I have tried this twice the Graft Series and the Standard Series. My thinking was that it would open up the possibility of a hand built instrument at a price point that would allow players to have this option and dip a toe in the hand built world. They were dropped because no one was interested in them. On top of that I think I damaged my brand by doing them in that there is a section of the market that assumes a lower priced hand built bass has something wrong with it or is cheap because it is crap. This I feel has done me no good in trying to get where I want to be.

Agreed - theres a fine line. Fender have done it great that the Squier is not a Fender - but is overseen by the Fender powerhouse. As for the luthier, yeah, I'm guessing that theres definitely the risk of damaging the brand. I'm not even sure that it has worked for Lakland with their Skyline series. The skyline series is pretty much Lakland and the US stuff is just expesnive Laklands that people dont really buy. Different is I guess, is that with the Skylines, that is more a box shifting model... whereas for cheaper luthier built basses, there's still the whole hands on element which then brings the more expensive range into question as to whether it's worth the money or the more affordable range are just a pale imitation. Difficult.

[BigRedX]

8 minutes ago, police squad said:

It just made me laugh, there's so much love for flats these days (even I'm thinking about a set) but an old pro, just uses rounds and has no interest in changing.

Is there really a lot of interest in flats these days? Maybe on here from a vocal minority, but Basschat only really represents a small number of bassists in the UK and the flats users are a tiny percentage of that. 

If flats were seriously coming back into popularity you'd be able to buy them form your local music store off the shelf without need to get them on special order and we'd probably even start seeing some mainstream brands fitting them as standard to their basses. 

But we're not; and for now flats will remain a speciality string for those of us who show a bit more interest in our gear than the average bassist for whom a bass and amp with a recognised brand name will be sufficient.

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

If flats were seriously coming back into popularity you'd be able to buy them form your local music store off the shelf without need to get them on special order and we'd probably even start seeing some mainstream brands fitting them as standard to their basses. 

 

Hofner. But that's for all the people that want to play at being Macca I guess.

[police squad]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Is there really a lot of interest in flats these days? Maybe on here from a vocal minority, but Basschat only really represents a small number of bassists in the UK and the flats users are a tiny percentage of that. 

If flats were seriously coming back into popularity you'd be able to buy them form your local music store off the shelf without need to get them on special order and we'd probably even start seeing some mainstream brands fitting them as standard to their basses. 

But we're not; and for now flats will remain a speciality string for those of us who show a bit more interest in our gear than the average bassist for whom a bass and amp with a recognised brand name will be sufficient.

You might be right there. I use swing bass strings, I had a set of flats on a fretless (didn't really like the sound but I don't like the sound of rounds on it either.) and I have them on my hofner violin bass but whether I would try them on my main gigging basses, I just don't know.

[BigRedX]

With regard to many well known UK bass brands being absent from the show, I imagine that having a stand there isn't cheap. As a graphic designer I've been involved with creating show stands for other specialist markets and judging by the amount of money some exhibitors are prepared to spend just on the graphical elements, it has got to be expensive. Would either the organisers or one of the exhibitors care to let us know how much a stand cost and what you got in terms of floor space etc for that price?

And of course if you already have a full order book and a waiting time for new instruments that is measured in years rather than months, why would you want to be at the show? You are going to loose several days when you could be working preparing for and being at the show, and what do you take to show? Do you even have demonstration instruments when you are completely busy with work for paying customers? As a customer I would not be very happy if I found out that my supposedly brand new bass had been thrashed to death over the weekend by hundreds of slap-happy bassists...

I also know from several friends who have worked for the bigger musical instrument companies that events like this can be very hard work. You are constantly watching the instruments to make sure they don't get damaged and no-one wants to buy anything without getting a "special show discount". 

Maybe for a lot of the more established luthiers too much cost and additional work for too little extra reward?

[BigRedX]

5 minutes ago, police squad said:

You might be right there. I use swing bass strings, I had a set of flats on a fretless (didn't really like the sound but I don't like the sound of rounds on it either.) and I have them on my hofner violin bass but whether I would try them on my main gigging basses, I just don't know.

The only reason to be using flats is because you prefer the sound of them over round wounds for the music that you are playing. I've used flats on some of my basses in the past, but none of my current basses or the music I am playing with them would suit flat wound strings right now.

[EBS_freak]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

With regard to many well known UK bass brands being absent from the show, I imagine that having a stand there isn't cheap. As a graphic designer I've been involved with creating show stands for other specialist markets and judging by the amount of money some exhibitors are prepared to spend just on the graphical elements, it has got to be expensive. Would either the organisers or one of the exhibitors care to let us know how much a stand cost and what you got in terms of floor space etc for that price?

And of course if you already have a full order book and a waiting time for new instruments that is measured in years rather than months, why would you want to be at the show? You are going to loose several days when you could be working preparing for and being at the show, and what do you take to show? Do you even have demonstration instruments when you are completely busy with work for paying customers? As a customer I would not be very happy if I found out that my supposedly brand new bass had been thrashed to death over the weekend by hundreds of slap-happy bassists...

I also know from several friends who have worked for the bigger musical instrument companies that events like this can be very hard work. You are constantly watching the instruments to make sure they don't get damaged and no-one wants to buy anything without getting a "special show discount". 

Maybe for a lot of the more established luthiers too much cost and additional work for too little extra reward?

I don't think there would be anybody willing to disclose prices in a public forum as they tend to be negotiated directly with the organisers. There's the "price" and then there's the "price".

About orders - that's kinda what I was referring to above. Some luthiers already have a healthy stock of orders and additional interest stemmed from a show could flood them. I see that Status were notably missing this year - I guess they don't need to be there. I guess they are also in the lucky position that if they ever need a cash injection, they just release a new take on the King bass and they'll hear the sound of multiple lawyers and bankers opening their wallets.

Working a show is very hard work - typically, there's the van hire, the parking, the booking of hotels for Friday and Saturday night, the load in, the load out, the eating out costs, the cost of the stand itself, the cost of power to the stand, the cost of printing any leaflets and business cards. Some exhibitors will clearly make a loss or find it hard to justify being there... especially if their orders are already looking healthy. Some guys of course, just love the social aspect of exhibiting - I am guessing people like the Aguilar guys and Sheldon Dingwall fall into this camp - but it also gives them chance to catch up with the players, distributors etc... and see a different part of the world for a while under "business expenses". 

[Merton]

Forgot to post this pic of MiniMert playing @MacDaddy‘s Snapdragon folding bass:

[charic]

Maybe I'm not articulating myself all that well.  Budget line isn't what I'm trying to get at, more "this is the basic model which starts at £XXXX, then you start adding options"

It gives you something to start at, makes things more accessible and tempts people in at a "lower price" before they start adding in fancy woods and expensive electronics

 

[Wolverinebass]

Let's be fair, at £1760 for a 4x10 and (if memory serves) almost £900 for a 1x12, I'm pretty sure Aguilar can afford to be there. 

What I thought was especially funny was that if you walked 2 stands along, Peavey were selling their 4x10 for £350. Five times better? I doubt it is, but that pricing is tonto. Nobody with any sanity will pay that much. Aguilar are now having a laugh.

[MoJoKe]

16 hours ago, Floyd Pepper said:

As for the exhibitors, huge respect to Steve @Chownybass for getting there in the face of multiple challenges....

Steve did a great job getting there.

I was with Markbass for the weekend, I live on the Devon Somerset border in the Blackdown hills, and it took me 6 1/2 hours just to dig my van out of the snow and frozen rain, and get it onto the A303...  a total of 50m max....   I then had a 4 1/2 hour drive nearly being run off the road into the snow by a Richard in a Range Rover Vogue...  I made it for the whole show...  wheres my pat on the back?

[EBS_freak]

21 minutes ago, charic said:

Maybe I'm not articulating myself all that well.  Budget line isn't what I'm trying to get at, more "this is the basic model which starts at £XXXX, then you start adding options"

It gives you something to start at, makes things more accessible and tempts people in at a "lower price" before they start adding in fancy woods and expensive electronics

 

Like LEDs :-p

[skelf]

23 minutes ago, charic said:

Maybe I'm not articulating myself all that well.  Budget line isn't what I'm trying to get at, more "this is the basic model which starts at £XXXX, then you start adding options"

It gives you something to start at, makes things more accessible and tempts people in at a "lower price" before they start adding in fancy woods and expensive electronics

 

That is the case with most builders as it is.

[EBS_freak]

7 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

Let's be fair, at £1760 for a 4x10 and (if memory serves) almost £900 for a 1x12, I'm pretty sure Aguilar can afford to be there. 

What I thought was especially funny was that if you walked 2 stands along, Peavey were selling their 4x10 for £350. Five times better? I doubt it is, but that pricing is tonto. Nobody with any sanity will pay that much. Aguilar are now having a laugh.

Brex....

:-p

If you were Aguilar and you could price it that high and it still sells... you'd slash the prices...?

[BigRedX]

55 minutes ago, charic said:

Maybe I'm not articulating myself all that well.  Budget line isn't what I'm trying to get at, more "this is the basic model which starts at £XXXX, then you start adding options"

It gives you something to start at, makes things more accessible and tempts people in at a "lower price" before they start adding in fancy woods and expensive electronics

 

But unless your instrument is made from non-traditional materials (not wood) or has a generally unusual design, those "options" such as fancy woods and electronics are the USP.

Otherwise again we might as well all be buying and playing Squiers.

Edited March 6, 2018 by BigRedX

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, Merton said:

Forgot to post this pic of MiniMert playing @MacDaddy‘s Snapdragon folding bass:

Good technique there, nice straight wrist. Thumb's a bit higher than I'd like to see, mind ...