If you could only choose one dirt pedal?

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, Osiris said:

So the rumours about your stick are true then? I'm actively avoiding it at all costs 

I seem to recall you being the Farage-like figure head of the anti DarkGlass campaign due to what you consider to be their fizzy drive sound, but yet you rise from the dead like Lazarus with your imminent purchase of the Microtubes 900 amp  

Osiris, mate, surely you can appreciate that the DG M900 has a great clean channel or that quite a lot of its owners use it just for that (and not for its fizzy microtubes);  and that if you can get a second hand one for the price you would have paid just for that clean channel, that makes a lot of sense?

Let me quote what one of my fellow BC'ers (who is a lovely guy and has the some of the best feedback of anyone I've come across on this forum) told me today. He sold me his VK 210 a short while back and therefore actually had exactly the matching rig I'm likely to be getting:

"I loved the M900. It had a tremendous clean tone and worked very well with the Vanderkley. The main reason I changed was because it was just too powerful for me. I rarely gig and mostly used it playing at home and even a slightest nudge of the volume control at the lowest setting was amazingly loud. I didn't use the distortion components so can't comment on them."

Those are the exact reasons for me considering getting an M900.  And for me the power and volume will be a bonus, as I do gig.

Is it possible to think that the Ampeg SCR DI would be just fine without the SCR?

Or be a fan of the Beatles but not rate Ringo Starr?

Edited December 1, 2017 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow you know both @Osiris and I appreciate the clean channel on the M900, but to quantify this (maybe you were holding something back) you never said with your broad brush tarnishing of DG products that you loved the clean tone, and the clean EQ on either their B7K or ultra pedals or amps, I am sure it was a pure lambasting.....

i am sure also you have poured scorn on someone for considering getting a B7K pedal to use as a clean EQ only, and similarly poured scorn on another for mainly (not only) using 1 of the Two available channels (the other does get used) on the Two Notes LeBass and that it renders it a useless very expensive non-intuitive pre-amp pedal.

So if there is such a thing as Bas Logic (I am not sure there is) then taking all previous evidence into account, this is a massive turnaround.

The only reason we are considering community service for you and not a sentence is that your insanity has been cured by some twist of fate and chance that you will use the amp.

The sentence is suspended though and will be enforced if you ever touch the drive channel

[Al Krow]

This all boils down to the primary purpose of a thing. 

For an amp it is to amplify. It is not to be a dirt pedal. Pretty clear cut really? Bells and whistles on an amp are a nice to have but aren't why folk get them. Another obvious example would be the VLE and VPF on my Markbass, nice addition for some but for most is not the deciding factor on getting a Markbass.

I accept that somethings are more nuanced as to 'main purpose' and it's reasonable to hold a difference of opinion as to their primary purpose. My view is that the Two Notes le Bass is primarily a dirt pedal with a clean EQ bolted on (I appreciate you disagree on this). The Ampeg SCR DI is more obviously / less controversially the other way around.

I personally won't buy something just for it's secondary purpose because it involves too much redundancy. In fact some folk don't want any redundancy at all which perhaps explains the current glut of M900s coming onto the FS section (I think eight since the start of October) - there are those who don't like / don't want to use the microtubes dirt and feel that someone else who does could therefore better appreciate / make better use of the amp. I think Doug @Darkglass could have a killer product if he launched a clean only DG amp without microtubes (and I'm betting I'm not the first to suggest this to him)!

And before handing out too many community service orders it's maybe worth remembering which individual actually started this thread (perhaps the most vitrolic anti-DG thread on BC ever?!) and who (and his bald mate) pleaded with me to join the fray (which request frankly I ignored for about 100 entries)...

 

 

[ordep]

for me a company that made its name from its overdriven sound offering a “clean only” product will be a bit odd, if not funny. 

[Al Krow]

13 minutes ago, ordep said:

for me a company that made its name from its overdriven sound offering a “clean only” product will be a bit odd, if not funny. 

Agreed! That is indeed the conundrum in terms of branding and what you want your products to be 'famous' for. But it is possible to have both an E-Type and a Jaguar I-Pace in the same stable and to make the journey from dirt to clean, right?

[totorbass]

As far as I'm concerned I consider the B3K like a very good bass distortion more than an overdrive: It can be used like this but it's not where it shines.

Apart from that I find boring to have a product in which one part  is useless (had the SCR-DI and sold for that, won't buy the M900 cause I don't want to have a section of my amp I could get bored with, rather nothing. ) I must say, having tried the M900, that I can't really figure what's appealing in its clean sound, I find it lacks personnality. 

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow yep I did start that thread, but when due diligence is paid to what I said, I never stated once that DG was not a quality product, or had did not have quality customer service. I praised the amp and the EQ of it and the pedals, but I decided the drive part of the equation was not for me. I have never not praised Doug as I have had email conversations with him and he has always been super helpful.

i then said they are actually selling themselves short and pigeon holeing themselves into the metal market with the demos out there, as it’s does more than what is seen. I have been consistent on this, and indeed sent you a clean bass demo which was very good with a DG amp an upright bass as well with the amp.

My vitriol, rant what ever you want to call it, I would say point of view though, was that the NEW products that came out I.e. the Cabs, The M500 and the Omicron hot on the heels of the Alpha Omega, may not do justice at their price point. Ceramic drivers, weight, costings etc. And I always said I was prepared to be wrong when we heard demo’s Of the cabs themselves not just aligned to a distorted sound, they may be the absolute nuts.

There is a significant difference there between vitriol and slaying a product and questioning the price value for what it is (of course the price is whatever someone wants to pay for it) having used a number of their products, as opposed to someone vehemently deciding it was last years sound (despite never trying either pedal or amp) will not touch a product and then saying oh actually they might be quite good (something the apparent dissenter always maintained, but decided it wasn’t for him).

There is a difference Bas and I know we like poking each other on this one. I will say triumphantly though on his occasion you are wrong, HOWEVER, you being wrong has actually lead you into potentially being in a very good situation.

Maybe after getting it you can go somewhat into answering those questions you ignored a while back!

 

ps can we still have make up cuddles, they are the best xxx

[ordep]

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Agreed! That is indeed the conundrum in terms of branding and what you want your products to be 'famous' for. But it is possible to have both an E-Type and a Jaguar I-Pace in the same stable and to make the journey from dirt to clean, right?

well I only responded to your post that Darkglass should offer a clean only amp. There are a million class D ICE powered amps out there. If you like the DG’s EQ points, surely an ultra pedal into your existing class D amp will achieve the same thing yeah? 

[Al Krow]

24 minutes ago, ordep said:

well I only responded to your post that Darkglass should offer a clean only amp. There are a million class D ICE powered amps out there. If you like the DG’s EQ points, surely an ultra pedal into your existing class D amp will achieve the same thing yeah? 

Yes but if I am getting an additional amp head (which I am, as I am going for separates for the first time) why get a different 800W to 900W class D amp with an EQ I don't like and a £250+ DG pedal to correct it? That doesn't make any sense to me.

[dannybuoy]

1 hour ago, ordep said:

for me a company that made its name from its overdriven sound offering a “clean only” product will be a bit odd, if not funny. 

Their first pedal was a clean one!

[ordep]

4 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Their first pedal was a clean one!

Yeah I know, but that doesnt count, as that is NOT the pedal that brought DG to what it is today. :-D

[ordep]

26 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yes but if I am getting an additional amp head (which I am, as I am going for separates for the first time) why get a different 800W to 900W class D amp with an EQ I don't like and a £250+ DG pedal to correct it? That doesn't make any sense to me.

because it will be cheaper?if its ONLY the EQ points that you like, you can always buy a Baby Sumo 1000 plus an ultra pedal for less than a brand new DG 900.

Edited December 1, 2017 by ordep

[Al Krow]

@ordep - I see where you are coming from. But if we're talking about cheaper then second hand is the way to go, right?

I've previously said, this only makes sense for me if I can pick up a relatively mint M900 at second hand prices, otherwise I could be 'wasting' £250 on the overdrive part of the amp which I may not particularly end up using.

But there have been a fair few M900s coming up in the FS whilst, taking your example, a second hand Baby Sumo 1000 is going to be as rare as hen's teeth so I could be hanging around for a while...

Secondly, I may be wrong, but I'm not convinced that overlaying a pedal EQ on an amp is going to be the same or indeed as effective as having the manufacturer of the amp attune the EQ of his amp to the rest of the circuitry? I guess an illustration of this is with the M900 itself: a good number of folk have mentioned that they find the microtubes on the M900 more to their liking than on a separate pedal, whilst others have said the opposite. The point is whichever side of that debate you come down on, it's clear that the external pedal overlay is not the same as the built in feature.

...AND NOW HOPEFULLY BACK TO THE MAIN THREAD AFTER OUR BRIEF M900 DETOUR  

Edited December 2, 2017 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

@krispn mentioned the following pedal was on his radar: Damnation Audio MBD-1. OMG! Worth checking this clip out. In terms of the dirt spectrum: warm valve-->overdrive-->distortion-->fuzz, it seems to deliver overdrive all the way through to fuzz. It is not particularly 'fizzy' in terms of top end and also seems to retain low end really well with the option of clean blend. It doesn't have a tiny footprint, however, so I'd need to chuck a couple of other pedals off my mini board to make way for it. But I'm seriously tempted. Anyone got one / tried one of these?

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Not tried, but i listened to a load of videos etc and universally is given a massive thumbs up, that and Reiner Amplification Gasoline. Reiner also do amps, small run business in the states

[dannybuoy]

I would've bought that Damnation Audio pedal a long time ago if it wasn't so unnecessarily big! Does sound great though, there are other demos out there... I find a lot of Excane's demos sound similar to each other and rather different to my experience playing through the same pedals - e.g. he makes the HGBM sound like a high gain monster distortion whereas I found it more of a mellow overdrive.

Edited December 2, 2017 by dannybuoy

[totorbass]

20 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

 I find a lot of Excane's demos sound similar to each other 

I agree. even his clean sound sounds hi-gain

 

BTW I've heard the production of the mbd-1 is paused (do one say "paused"?)at this time.

Edited December 3, 2017 by totorbass

[krispn]

He’s working on other pedals but still has some he’s taking pre orders on them I believe. 

[Al Krow]

If / when you get in touch with him again - could you enquire whether there's any chance of him producing a 'mini' version. Now that would be amazing (and DB would snap one up too at that point methinks)!

 

[krispn]

I’ll ask??

[dannybuoy]

Already did, he wasn't interested at the time.

[Al Krow]

Maybe krispn could entice with him with the prospect of a 'bulk' order to make it worth his while / provide him with some 'start up funds' for making this? I suspect all three of us  (and maybe fxpedalrental aslo) would be interested in getting a mini version of the pedal, and there maybe some others on the forum too? And if he could shave a bit off the price - as the mini versions are usually cheaper and also 'cos we're putting in a combined 'bulk' order, then even better!

[dannybuoy]

His reply:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/new-damnation-audio-mbd-1-the-bass-distortion-ive-been-waiting-for.1247402/page-31#post-20351160

[The59Sound]

Will it sound good with my signature Encore Precision?

[krispn]

I can’t see him doing it as it’s a whole rethink etc. and if he’s already poo poo’d it. Four pedals is hardly a bulk order ?