Interesting FRFR story..

[Frank Blank]

3 hours ago, pburrows said:

Do you think it would be good for bass or is it a guitar cab?

Definitely has the whiff of guitar to it but as @Jack rightly points out, it does have lights.

[Rollin Thunder]

17 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Definitely has the whiff of guitar to it but as @Jack rightly points out, it does have lights.

None of the  frfr speakers I have seen ho much below 47 hertz, headrush line6 powercab. This will be used as a home practice unit one stop shop running a helix stomp into it, rather than separate bass amp guitar amp. Also most of the frfr speakers all seem to be aimed at guitar mostly with bass as an after a thought.  

 

Seems a reasonably priced powered speaker option this, home, rehearsals, small gigs. 

 

[Frank Blank]

24 minutes ago, Rollin Thunder said:

None of the  frfr speakers I have seen ho much below 47 hertz, headrush line6 powercab. This will be used as a home practice unit one stop shop running a helix stomp into it, rather than separate bass amp guitar amp. Also most of the frfr speakers all seem to be aimed at guitar mostly with bass as an after a thought.  

 

Seems a reasonably priced powered speaker option this, home, rehearsals, small gigs. 

I use my QSC as a monitor at small or large gigs, at smaller gigs withoutPA support it can be used as backline. my entire rig, regardless of venue size, is bass > Stomp > QSC. 

[pburrows]

I just got from PMT in Birmingham and tried out several powered speakers. Yamaha, RCF, ALTO, QSC. 

The QSC 12.2 was hands down winner for me. Nice mids which will cut through on stage and seems like plenty of power.

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, pburrows said:

I just got from PMT in Birmingham and tried out several powered speakers. Yamaha, RCF, ALTO, QSC. 

The QSC 12.2 was hands down winner for me. Nice mids which will cut through on stage and seems like plenty of power.

Yay, welcome to the QSC (Quite Small Club).

[pburrows]

Just now, Frank Blank said:

Yay, welcome to the QSC (Quite Small Club).

😁

[Jack]

11 minutes ago, pburrows said:

I just got from PMT in Birmingham and tried out several powered speakers. Yamaha, RCF, ALTO, QSC. 

The QSC 12.2 was hands down winner for me. Nice mids which will cut through on stage and seems like plenty of power.

Which RCFs did you use? I'm trying to work out if the QSC will be enough or if I'll need something like the 735.

[EBS_freak]

6 minutes ago, Jack said:

Which RCFs did you use? I'm trying to work out if the QSC will be enough or if I'll need something like the 735.

A pair of 12.2s would be nice. Plenty of opportunity to make use of some of those Helix stereo effects!

I would take a single 735 over the 12.2 as a one box solution though (although I do admit the 12.2 visually look better)

Edited March 2, 2020 by EBS_freak

[pburrows]

I tried 735 and 745 but felt the qsc had the best sound overall. The 745 is probably louder but I think the tone may get lost in the overall on-stage mix. The QSC seemed to have more mid-punch

[Frank Blank]

10 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

A pair of 12.2s would be nice. Plenty of opportunity to make use of some of those Helix stereo effects!

I would take a single 735 over the 12.2 as a one box solution though (although I do admit the 12.2 visually look better)

...which is exactly why I'm thinking about a pair of K12.2s

[Jack]

7 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

...which is exactly why I'm thinking about a pair of K12.2s

Me too, but a pair is pretty much the same price a single RCF 745. If I'm going to use 1 cab I'd prefer the QSC as it's smaller and lighter (I'd also get the pair so hey, free pa system) but if I'm often going to need 2 of the QSCs I'd rather have a single, bigger cabinet. My problem is varying stage volumes. 90% of my gigs can be done with none or at least very little, but we still do loads of big ballrooms and biker rallies and such that demand way more.

[Owen]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

free pa system

If you have two cabs pretty soon you will be running the PA system. Unless you REALLY love it and get paid for it this is a VERY bad thing.

[EBS_freak]

Indeed.

[Bigwan]

I see Harley Benton have entered the fray at the budget end of things with an frfr 1x12 for guitar. Looks like a repurposed PS cab they already have in their line but with different firmware for guitar cab presets. 

Has anyone tried any of the HB stuff for frfr for bass? 

[Jack]

RCF emailed back saying that their internal DSP is purely for limiting and basically 'speaker protection' reasons, the only thing that effects the sound within th speaker's design parameters is the crossover. Apart from that it's all designed to be transparent.

 

There's no chance of me running the band PA system (I did a few times with my Barefaced cabs just for the craic) as we're well-catered for in that regard. I'm leaning towards the QSCs at this point, as I don't really need that much volume at all and I'm fairly sure that either option will be more than loud enough. Having the pair of the QSCs means I can use just one reasonably small cab most of the time and not have to cart the huge 745 around to every show.

 

 

5 hours ago, Bigwan said:

I see Harley Benton have entered the fray at the budget end of things with an frfr 1x12 for guitar. Looks like a repurposed PS cab they already have in their line but with different firmware for guitar cab presets. 

Has anyone tried any of the HB stuff for frfr for bass? 

Interesting. It's just their DSP112 cab that they've had there for ages though. New badge. FWIW I've had really, really good experiences with loads of their own-brand stuff.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Jack

[EBS_freak]

I don’t buy that their DSP doesn’t flatten response. Did you speak to RCF in the UK (who just distribute?)

The reason I say that is look at this video - 

20 mins onwards where the SMAART test happens. That is super super flat for a box that apparently has no DSP flattening the response.

[Jack]

 Perhaps I shouldn't have paraphrased, I know what I meant when I said 'transparent' but I appreciate it could have been taken either way.

 

I had asked specifically about controllable DSP like on the QSC K.2 series, where clearly the RCF boxed have no control over any DSP or internal anything. If anyone hasn't used the RCF boxes (we have 2x 712s and a 705, with 2 old 702s as well) they're just an XLR input and a volume control.  The response I got was: (emphasis mine to correct my confusion)

Quote

Hi

Thanks for your enquiry.

The DSP in the 7-series is designed purely to protect and limit the speaker to keep it within its design parameters, other than that and the crossover we don't use the DSP to effect or create any kind of signature sound and the speakers are all designed to sound transparent. The reason we don’t shout about the DSP as much as other companies, is that because we custom design all aspect of our cabinets, amplifier and speakers, we don’t need the DSP to do that much, to make the system sound good.

I know many users that take the approach you are suggesting and the RCF speakers work perfectly.

I would suggest trying a few different cabs, to see which ones suit your sound, style of playing the best. I would suggest looking at cabs with the larger format compression drivers as these deliver a much, more control bass, due to the cone driver having to cover a smaller frequency range.

Where are you based? I can suggest a few dealers that have these bits in stock.

Regards

Dean

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Jack

[stevie]

On 29/03/2020 at 18:23, EBS_freak said:

I don’t buy that their DSP doesn’t flatten response. Did you speak to RCF in the UK (who just distribute?)

The reason I say that is look at this video - 

20 mins onwards where the SMAART test happens. That is super super flat for a box that apparently has no DSP flattening the response.

Agreed. The constant directivity horns that most cabs use nowadays all need to be equalised - so there has to be some form of equalisation going on for the HF at least. What the people at RCF might be getting at is that they're not using DSP to iron out problems with the drivers. In other words, the drivers they're using are capable of producing a flat response without too much eq. That's certainly possible.

 

[Phil Starr]

Hi Stevie wondered if you'd reply.

@EBS_freakIt's fairly normal in crossover design to do some equalisation so to do some of the same thing in DSP as you would in a hardwired crossover doesn't look like 'cheating'. I've always looked for drivers that are flattish especially in the crossover area and it looks like this is what RCF are saying they use as a starting point. I'd also use some sort of dynamic limiting to protect the drivers and they put their hands up to that too. Limiting  would be more linear in DSP than putting an auto vehicle bulb in series with the horn driver which a lot of old PA speakers did

I'm reading this as they are trying to make good speakers with decent components and making pragmatic decisions about how to use DSP rather than lot's of processing to give an 'enhanced' sound to sell the speakers in the showroom. I guess where any of us judge the point where equalisation becomes enhancement becomes a bit of a semantic point. You can do so much with DSP.

I have to say I've listened to a few RCF speakers and they sound more honest and less congested than most of their rivals in the same price range. I think their compromises are mainly well judged.

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Phil Starr

[Al Krow]

@lee650if you're thinking about FRFR, this thread is definitely worth a trawl!

And plenty of practical suggestions / tips for what works from folk who have one. 

Or you could save yourself a bit of time and just get an RCF 712A 735A 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Al Krow
Wrong RCF model!

[Jack]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@lee650if you're thinking about FRFR, this thread is definitely worth a trawl!

And plenty of practical suggestions / tips for what works from folk who have one. 

Or you could save yourself a bit of time and just get an RCF 712A 

Fwiw I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with the right honourable Mr. Krow here. I tried a 712 for a gig once (when we had really good pa support) and I found it farty and distorted to the point where I was worried about damage at gig volume and I had to run it too quietly instead. I've also previously spent a lot of time with both of those speakers in a rehearsal room. I know everyone has wildly different volume requirements but it really didn't work for me. That's a gig that one of my old Barefaced FR800s regularly breezed through whilst practically idling.

 

Now, a 732 or above on the other hand would be a different beastie.

 

Here's me having words with my 712. I have to say, it's a brilliant PA top, but it leaves a bit to be desired as a bass amp.

 

 

 

 

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Jack said:

Fwiw I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with the right honourable Mr. Krow here. I tried a 712 for a gig once (when we had really good pa support) and I found it farty and distorted to the point where I was worried about damage at gig volume and I had to run it too quietly instead. I've also previously spent a lot of time with both of those speakers in a rehearsal room. I know everyone has wildly different volume requirements but it really didn't work for me. That's a gig that one of my old Barefaced FR800s regularly breezed through whilst practically idling.

Now, a 732 or above on the other hand would be a different beastie.

Here's me having words with my 712. I have to say, it's a brilliant PA top, but it leaves a bit to be desired as a bass amp.

Oops, thanks Jack. I actually meant RCF 735A - what happens when I'm posting in the wee hours! I've corrected my earlier post.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

27 minutes ago, Jack said:

Fwiw I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with the right honourable Mr. Krow here. I tried a 712 for a gig once (when we had really good pa support) and I found it farty and distorted to the point where I was worried about damage at gig volume and I had to run it too quietly instead. I've also previously spent a lot of time with both of those speakers in a rehearsal room. I know everyone has wildly different volume requirements but it really didn't work for me. That's a gig that one of my old Barefaced FR800s regularly breezed through whilst practically idling.

 

Now, a 732 or above on the other hand would be a different beastie.

 

Here's me having words with my 712. I have to say, it's a brilliant PA top, but it leaves a bit to be desired as a bass amp.

 

 

 

 

see this is what Basschat is great for... not just chat, but equipment reviews based on real life usage... AND a picture showing the emotional response to using the gear!

[JohnDaBass]

2 hours ago, Jack said:

Here's me having words with my 712. I have to say, it's a brilliant PA top, but it leaves a bit to be desired as a bass amp.

I hope you gave it dam good thrashing afterwards 😂 In good olde John Cleese fashion 😂😆

[JottoSW1]

28 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

I hope you gave it dam good thrashing afterwards 😂 In good olde John Cleese fashion 😂😆

Borrow some birch twigs from the local sauna. Must admit I've found the Qsc items that have been on sale here fascinating.