Interesting FRFR story..

[stingrayPete1977]

11 hours ago, Tubster said:

Tocamos entre Cadíz y Màlaga. Mi Español es fatal!

The RCFs are great but I still maintain 12” is the way to go with vocals vs 15”. However, there is no perfect solution but it’s fun trying. RCF has such an amazing range. I have QSC as I brought them with us from the US. 

My main point by mentioning the ALTO is that a small, inexpensive and compact sub can add a great deal to a pair of smaller speakers such as the rcf 310a. Not saying that ALTO is the ultimate small compact sub but it works for us for now. Nice thing is you can go rent a sub and give it a whirl.

Do you play in Spain? 

Tu español parace bien, yo entiendo todo. Solo visitamos cada año un vez o dos, principalmente costa calida, me gusta españa y estudiar la lengua para dos o tres años, ¡mi español es fatal tambien! 

[stingrayPete1977]

See, no past tense on 'estudiar' lol.

[stingrayPete1977]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

And when you realise that the design of the 735 and 745 means that the vast majority of the vocals are going through the horn and not the woofer because the horns in those boxes can do way more than those typically found in their competitors. (Much lower crossover points) You also can't say that a 12 is better or worse than a 15 in a PA box - that depends on the horn that it is coupled with and the design of the box it is in.

A QSC 12 will not keep up in the lows with either the 735 or 745. Yes, you can add a sub to extend out - that's more to carry... but you could also add a 8003 to your 7x5 - which compared with to a QSC with sub will still be easy sailing.

I get that you dig your QSCs but the 735 and 745 are completely different beasts compared to the other cabs mentioned here. Check out cabs with 3 and 4 inch horns and you'll see what I mean. The thing is, you won't find those sort of horns in 1. A plastic box (apart from the 735 and 745) and 2. Under 1k (or even under 2k) - apart from the 735 and 745. That is why these particular boxes are killer.

If you must have a 12, check out the 732 and report back - truthfully.  I wouldn't run the 732 without a sub though - unlike the 735 or 745.

Oh come on, again but in Spanish please

[CameronJ]

I’m currently embarking on a similar journey to the likes of @Bridgehouse & @jrixn1. Just pulled the trigger on the RCF HD32A for sale here. 

I spent a good while mulling it over, comparing reviews online and by all accounts it’s one of the best 12” powered speakers out there at the moment - I was pretty much unable to find a single bad word against it. By all accounts it far outperforms the competitors (QSC K12, Yamaha DXR/DSR12 etc etc) due to having a high frequency driver with a 3” voice coil, which crosses over at 700hz with the low frequency woofer. Basically, because that 3” driver deals with so much of the frequency spectrum, the woofer is free to deal with all the lows.

Should be a powerhouse and serve me very well as an all-in-one bass rig, vocal monitor and keys monitor. I’m looking at either a Presonus StudioLive AR8 or RCF M18 to be the brains behind this all purpose rig. Gonna get down to PMT London to compare the mixers at some point this week.

Bear in mind that the usage scenarios for this set up are at home, on small to medium scale jams/open mic nights with no FOH support and on theatre gigs as a personal monitor with FOH support. Should do the trick very nicely I reckon!

Edited January 8, 2018 by CameronJ

[FuNkShUi]

We have just bought RCF 732s for our band @CameronJ.

I had a little go of them with just my bass going through them. You're going to love them.

And yeh, the 3" driver is the key!!!

[CameronJ]

14 minutes ago, FuNkShUi said:

We have just bought RCF 732s for our band @CameronJ.

I had a little go of them with just my bass going through them. You're going to love them.

And yeh, the 3" driver is the key!!!

This is exactly what I wanted to hear! I’m assuming you mean you played through them with no subs?

[FuNkShUi]

17 hours ago, CameronJ said:

This is exactly what I wanted to hear! I’m assuming you mean you played through them with no subs?

Yes. No subs. I just wanted to hear what they sounded like.

I was very impressed. I'm sure it all depends on how loud you are, and what your "sound" is etc. I loved them though. 

 

[Bass Culture]

Contentious observation alert!  I seem to remember a number of decent tilt-back combo options out there.  In this context aren't these FRFR's effectively performing the same function?

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, Bass Culture said:

Contentious observation alert!  I seem to remember a number of decent tilt-back combo options out there.  In this context aren't these FRFR's effectively performing the same function?

Yes, pretty much exactly. 

Except the FRFR could also do a lot more things too..

[Bass Culture]

1 hour ago, Bridgehouse said:

Yes, pretty much exactly. 

Except the FRFR could also do a lot more things too..

But how much more do we need it to do?  Due to the advances in PA technology many of us now no longer need backline to enable the audience to hear us, as we do that through the PA; we simply need to hear ourselves on stage, and often at as low a volume as possible to avoid microphone bleed.  I grant you the FRFR is a really neat solution and provides for the appropriate monitoring angle too, but a small tilt-back combo or tilted back amp/1x10" (for example) would do the same thing.  Wouldn't it?  At the end of the day we just want to plug in to something and be able to hear what we're playing.  As bass players we've benefited more than most from Class D and advances in speaker design enabling us to get rid of the weight and size of kit we might have needed 30 years ago.  Is this not just taking it to somewhat obsessive extremes?  

And please - I'm not trying to wind anyone up here, it's a quite genuine question.  Hell, if there's a multitude of convincing responses I might even end up considering a FRFR myself!

Edited January 9, 2018 by Bass Culture

[charic]

A tilt back combo is only good if you only play bass and will only ever want to monitor accordingly.

FRFR is good for all instruments and you could use as a full line monitor if you wanted. Or in a pinch add it to the FOH setup

[LeftyJ]

14 minutes ago, charic said:

A tilt back combo is only good if you only play bass and will only ever want to monitor accordingly.

My EBS NeoDrome (not really a tiltback combo, but can be tilted slightly with an additional handle underneath the combo) has a monitor input that can be blended with the bass signal, but does not go back out through the XLR. Works like a charm! 

[EBS_freak]

39 minutes ago, Bass Culture said:

But how much more do we need it to do?  Due to the advances in PA technology many of us now no longer need backline to enable the audience to hear us, as we do that through the PA; we simply need to hear ourselves on stage, and often at as low a volume as possible to avoid microphone bleed.  I grant you the FRFR is a really neat solution and provides for the appropriate monitoring angle too, but a small tilt-back combo or tilted back amp/1x10" (for example) would do the same thing.  Wouldn't it?  At the end of the day we just want to plug in to something and be able to hear what we're playing.  As bass players we've benefited more than most from Class D and advances in speaker design enabling us to get rid of the weight and size of kit we might have needed 30 years ago.  Is this not just taking it to somewhat obsessive extremes?  

And please - I'm not trying to wind anyone up here, it's a quite genuine question.  Hell, if there's a multitude of convincing responses I might even up considering a FRFR myself!

A valid point... but for me it's flexibility. I can use my FRFRs as FoH speakers. I can use them for backline. They are light. They are portable - certainly compared to the typical bass cabs out there that put out similar SPL...

The important thing to remember that a FRFR does not automatically equate to a PA speaker. There are plenty of manufacturers that are doing FRFR cabs that look like guitar cabs. The problem is, not many of these are capable of delivering high SPL for bass... that simply wasn't their target market as the uptake of FRFR by bass players is a minute proportion of the market.  The fact that a lot of modern PA speakers can handle a lot of bass makes them an idea candidate for use with bass. So yes, the cabinets of a lot of PA speakers, certainly the ABS cases, enable them to be pole mounted or placed on the floor so they can be used on their side as a wedge - and as you say, be used like a tilt back combo. The thing is, that tilt-back combo has a prebaked sound to it. The case for FRFR is that a modeller is placed before it, so that FRFR can reproduce the sound of the model without, unlike your generic tilt back combo, colouring the sound itself.

OK, yes, we could use anything we wanted if we just needed "a sound" for monitoring purposes... but it would actually be nice to have the versatility to be able model different amps and actually like - no, love - what we hear coming out of the cab next to us on stage. Over time, our tastes may change, the gig may change... but a modeller with the FRFR solution caters for this perfectly. No prebaked cab sounds means we can get what we want on stage as well as out front. You may call it obsessive extremes - maybe it is - but a lot of people are clocking onto the fact that a decent modeller and FRFR opens up a whole world of flexibility.

For me, the ultimate bonus is that I can take a modeller to a gig and a set of inears... so I use the FRFR aspect of the PA itself and I don't even need to take a cab onstage. It sounds a lot better out front too... as there is no bleed coming from the bass on the stage... Some people may call the whole thing overkill and say, meh, too much for a pub gig - but in reality, the benefits from quiet stages and loud PAs will realise the greatest improvement in a pub... where the stages are small and the venues are generally not built for music.

So, if you were to get say a Helix LT - circa 690 quid... and a beefy FRFR speaker, say a 735... (oh look a bargain at Andertons) £580 for the Mk2... thats a ridiculous rig for £1270. When you compare what an average traditional rig costs.. say a Little Mark 800 circa 550 and Mark Bass NY122 circa 560 - £1110... I'd say that the £160 difference is a small price to pay for the flexibility of all those different amp models... and the comprehensive fx that is also available to you... and if you are also a guitarist... it will also cover all guitar rig needs (all amps, all pedals). Does it make a little more sense now?

[EBS_freak]

10 minutes ago, LeftyJ said:

My EBS NeoDrome (not really a tiltback combo, but can be tilted slightly with an additional handle underneath the combo) has a monitor input that can be blended with the bass signal, but does not go back out through the XLR. Works like a charm! 

It works quite well on the NeoDrome as the EBS stuff is voiced quite hifi - mostly due to that Selenium tweeter in it. NeoDrome not too heavy either!

[Bridgehouse]

I also play mandolin with a piezo pickup. It amplifies this beautifully for acoustic style gigs.

[stingrayPete1977]

Add into the mix anyone who doubles with upright bass and electric bass and the FRFR wins again, a generic bass amp with no tweeter won't be of any use to an upright player with a 'clicky' pickup nor much use for anyone that wants to play arco either. 

[CameronJ]

Okay so I’ve just received my HD32a from @northwing and it is outrageously good. The thing sounds sublime with everything. So far I’ve chucked recorded music, live piano and my basses through it - both dry and heavily effected via my synth-oriented pedalboard. It just sounds perfect. Sweetness in the top end without sounding harsh, lovely clarity in the midrange and tons of beef in the lows which is ideal given my fetish for octave pedals. As an all-in-one solution I struggle to see how this can be beat.

Sadly looks like my head & cab are heading to the classifieds very shortly...it’s taken something of this calibre to dethrone it!

Edited January 12, 2018 by CameronJ

[EBS_freak]

And yet another one kills Rock n Roll.

Edited January 12, 2018 by EBS_freak

[CameronJ]

@FuNkShUi you weren’t joking!

[FuNkShUi]

On 1/12/2018 at 17:57, CameronJ said:

@FuNkShUi you weren’t joking!

Yup. Didn't want to really give it the big one on here. You have to try it to really believe it.

I have to thank Russ (again) for initially suggesting the RCFs. 

Top bit of equipment

[Bridgehouse]

Right. 

I tried the QSC at rehearsal last night.

Observations:

- 5 piece band: drums, keys, 2 guitars, bass + vocals (Americana/rock)

- Plenty of headroom - more than enough. Lots. Like buckets of it. I was at about half vol on the QSC and controlled volume on the bass or Preamp pedal.

- It plays with Preamp pedals very well - gave a good representation of the sound I was after

- Lots of bass for a 4 string - never felt like the lows were struggling

- No parping out or rattling - nice and smooth. Response was as good as a Barefaced Compact and it was louder. 

- Projection across the room was also good

All in all it worked very well.

[JSB]

1 hour ago, Bridgehouse said:

Right. 

I tried the QSC at rehearsal last night.

Observations:

- 5 piece band: drums, keys, 2 guitars, bass + vocals (Americana/rock)

- Plenty of headroom - more than enough. Lots. Like buckets of it. I was at about half vol on the QSC and controlled volume on the bass or Preamp pedal.

- It plays with Preamp pedals very well - gave a good representation of the sound I was after

- Lots of bass for a 4 string - never felt like the lows were struggling

- No parping out or rattling - nice and smooth. Response was as good as a Barefaced Compact and it was louder. 

- Projection across the room was also good

All in all it worked very well.

A search on Google for QSC brought me here...  This thread got me to register to BC...  :-) Very interesting stuff.

Where you also mixed in their PA?  What was the other musicians amplification? 

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, JSB said:

A search on Google for QSC brought me here...  This thread got me to register to BC...  :-) Very interesting stuff.

Where you also mixed in their PA?  What was the other musicians amplification? 

No, small rehearsal room so no need for PA backup.

Vocals and acoustic through the PA in the rehearsal room

Keys also through a QSC K10

Guitar - AC30

Drums - Acoustic - full kit. 

The acoustic swapped out for a second electric for some songs and that went through a Marshall head with a 2x10 cab. 

[Bridgehouse]

Might be worth adding - I used to use a LM Mk III with a BF Compact for rehearsing in the same room - with the Preamp into the fx return. 

That would have been set to 50% on gain and just over 70% on Master for a similar volume level. 

The reality is that volume (or at least sound pressure wise) the QSC gives monitoring volume about the same as a decent 500w head into a 15" cab. 

Depth wise it's not as full and rich as a 15" cab, but it gives a much wider and fuller sound - more detailed, and more expansive. 

My original intention was to have this for on stage monitoring and direct to PA for gigging - it does this perfectly and fulfils the brief completely. Oh, and it's one thing to carry and a lot smaller and lighter than a big cab and an amp head...

[JSB]

57 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

Might be worth adding - I used to use a LM Mk III with a BF Compact for rehearsing in the same room - with the Preamp into the fx return. 

That would have been set to 50% on gain and just over 70% on Master for a similar volume level. 

Never heard the BF Compact, but did hear that amp through a Berg 12"...  I can relate to your This is impressive.

Have you got a chance of trying out the 8.2 and 12.2^  What lead you to pick the 10.2 over the others? 

I know this might appear like a strange question to ask but, how does it perform at VERY low volume?