Interesting FRFR story..

[LukeFRC]

5 hours ago, Muzz said:

The function/pub/all sorts band I gig with the most have a pair of RCF ART 12s, a single RCF 15 sub sited by the drummer, and in-ears. Presonus mixer, all Bluetooth/Wiffy. Guitarist has a Helix, I just use a Zoom B3, the kit is a very small one bristling with triggers and an overhead. Works a treat, sounds good for all sorts of music. We did step up from the RCF 10s, though, as we were pushing them juuuust a little on the volume front.

We gigged in the New Forest not long ago and got all of us and all the gear (including lights, stands, three guitars, two basses, etc) in my car. OK, so it's a big Skoda Superb Estate, but even so...

It's the way forward.

I still have my Walkabout and BF Super Twin for Rawk gigs, tho... 

ok... so I'll ask you...

Currently got a Walkabout and Scout cab. 
Most my playing is direct into a PA and IEM- so something amp modelling would actually be useful. Tempted to get a B3 or B3n... so the Walkabout is really only for the odd gig, and I guess home practice. It fits in the back of my golf nicely too. 

If I sold the Walkabout and picked up a FRFR powered cab - would I miss the simplicity of having a nice valvey sounding bass amp? 

I guess the other thing I'm thinking about is not getting a B3 but doing my own DIY pedals based on what I think I would like... (compressor, SVT-type effect*, cab"sim", transformer based DI**)

* For something almost as warm sounding as the Walkabout. It won't be but can try? 
**Mainly as one of the nicest sounds I had was the Warwick Hellborg preamp, which I generally had the EQ off on.. so a kinda similar thing to that... 

[Jack]

11 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

ok... so I'll ask you...

Currently got a Walkabout and Scout cab. 
Most my playing is direct into a PA and IEM- so something amp modelling would actually be useful. Tempted to get a B3 or B3n... so the Walkabout is really only for the odd gig, and I guess home practice. It fits in the back of my golf nicely too. 

If I sold the Walkabout and picked up a FRFR powered cab - would I miss the simplicity of having a nice valvey sounding bass amp? 

I guess the other thing I'm thinking about is not getting a B3 but doing my own DIY pedals based on what I think I would like... (compressor, SVT-type effect*, cab"sim", transformer based DI**)

* For something almost as warm sounding as the Walkabout. It won't be but can try? 
**Mainly as one of the nicest sounds I had was the Warwick Hellborg preamp, which I generally had the EQ off on.. so a kinda similar thing to that... 

I have a board of pedals and send that straight to PA without using any kind of proper digital modeller if that's what you're after? IME many preamp pedals (Ive had or have the M80, Sansamp, BDI21, and a few more) don't have the output to run an FRFR cab directly. This kind of makes sens as they're designed to go pre>mixer>powered cab and if you miss the mixer out they can be too quiet. Many cabs have switchable input sensitivity, which can negate this. I worked around by using a Behringer MIC100 (although similar units are available in every prive range) to make sure that I had LOADS of gain on tap to run any frfr cab.

 

In short, if you had a 'normal' board with whatever pedals on it that you wanted such as the comp and SVT-type thing that you're talking about and then stuck a 'proper' microphone preamp on the end rather than an amp you'd be golden.

[Muzz]

12 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

ok... so I'll ask you...

Currently got a Walkabout and Scout cab. 
Most my playing is direct into a PA and IEM- so something amp modelling would actually be useful. Tempted to get a B3 or B3n... so the Walkabout is really only for the odd gig, and I guess home practice. It fits in the back of my golf nicely too. 

If I sold the Walkabout and picked up a FRFR powered cab - would I miss the simplicity of having a nice valvey sounding bass amp? 

I guess the other thing I'm thinking about is not getting a B3 but doing my own DIY pedals based on what I think I would like... (compressor, SVT-type effect*, cab"sim", transformer based DI**)

* For something almost as warm sounding as the Walkabout. It won't be but can try? 
**Mainly as one of the nicest sounds I had was the Warwick Hellborg preamp, which I generally had the EQ off on.. so a kinda similar thing to that... 

Yeah, I think I'd miss that simplicity and warmth for the one-tone Rawk gigs, and I do love the Walkabout/Super Twin combo (which is more than loud enough with the Super Twin for an old-school Rawk band with shed-building drummer and two half-stack 412/Marshall 100w guitarists) if I went to just the Zoom. The Zoom tones (and effects: some Octave up, some chorus, some distortion) are good enough for the sheer variety of tones I need for the in-ears band (Muse to Johnny Cash to Chic to Daft Punk to Irish to Nirvana and most points in between) but aren't quite the Walkabout...but I'm not going back to hauling it all round for the function gigs... 

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with DIY pedals, though...

[tauzero]

15 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I guess the other thing I'm thinking about is not getting a B3 but doing my own DIY pedals based on what I think I would like... (compressor, SVT-type effect*, cab"sim", transformer based DI**)
 

If you're after fit-and-forget pedals rather than the switchability of a B3, you could do exactly what Jack has and use an MS-60B and DI/preamp - the MS-60B will give you compressor, SVT, and cab sim quite happily.

[lemmywinks]

Is that Behringer a clone of the Art Pre? I used to have one of those and foolishly sold it, lovely sounding little mic pre for not much money. 

[LukeFRC]

11 hours ago, Muzz said:

Yeah, I think I'd miss that simplicity and warmth for the one-tone Rawk gigs, and I do love the Walkabout/Super Twin combo (which is more than loud enough with the Super Twin for an old-school Rawk band with shed-building drummer and two half-stack 412/Marshall 100w guitarists) if I went to just the Zoom. The Zoom tones (and effects: some Octave up, some chorus, some distortion) are good enough for the sheer variety of tones I need for the in-ears band (Muse to Johnny Cash to Chic to Daft Punk to Irish to Nirvana and most points in between) but aren't quite the Walkabout...but I'm not going back to hauling it all round for the function gigs... 

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with DIY pedals, though...

Hmmm thanks for sharing. food for thought. 

The DIY pedals are an idea I've got.... currently pricing it up, may end up being not that economical. I built a bass last year (well the body from a lump of wood and all the parts) and it was really fun, but by the time you price it up it wasn't the most amazing idea ever. 
The idea is a DIY compressor -> copy of the Caitlinbread SFT, which is itself a FET version of the SVT circuit. Made one before on vero and it was amazing -> then into a DI preamp kinda loosely based on stealing ideas from half an API mic preamp. The problem - you get to research a nice compressor pedal you could make, and then price it up and it's more than a secondhand Spectracomp... and then you go through the bits and you could buy some secondhand pedals, try out the idea and then sell them if it doesn't work out... but then you need to power them, and mount them on a board... and by then I've become one of those people with a pedal board, and will start GASing for nicer pedals with more valves/transformers/transistors in them ( something like @ordep posted last tue in the "post your pedal boards" thread) ... and by that time I've become the person I quite like not being currently! (not saying theirs anything at all wrong with pedals, give me more disposable income and I'm there with you) - so in that case a Zoom B3 or B3n could be the ticket... 

8 hours ago, tauzero said:

If you're after fit-and-forget pedals rather than the switchability of a B3, you could do exactly what Jack has and use an MS-60B and DI/preamp - the MS-60B will give you compressor, SVT, and cab sim quite happily.

This added to what Muzz shared makes me think I should pick up this part first... I can use it when I gig with the IEM (gotta be better than the DI and the sound guys' cloth ears) and then if I start picking up regular gigs where a FRFR speaker would make sense flog the walkabout and do that.
I think I would go fir B3 or B3n over MS-60b as I would use the headphone socket.


sorry guys lots of external processing going on here.  I'm not killing Rock n roll, just squashing it and probably being too 'pop'
 

[Muzz]

I had a MS-60B and found it a bit too, I dunno...one-button-y? The B3's a bit easier for me to work on a gig...and with a few more practical options, too... I have a very short attention span when it comes to the zillion possibilities of pedals 

[CameronJ]

I recently purchased Propellerhead Reason 10 and remembered that my Presonus Studiolive AR8 mixer doubles as an audio interface - long story short it works very well and allows me to record from any/all of the input channels. Latency isn’t an issue either, I can drop the buffer size low enough to play bass through the rack effects and amps in Reason, monitoring in real time via the software without audible latency. A lovely thing.

Still enamoured with my RCF HD32a. It’s so good that I just don’t think about it - total GAS killer!

[EBS_freak]

8 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

I recently purchased Propellerhead Reason 10 and remembered that my Presonus Studiolive AR8 mixer doubles as an audio interface - long story short it works very well and allows me to record from any/all of the input channels. Latency isn’t an issue either, I can drop the buffer size low enough to play bass through the rack effects and amps in Reason, monitoring in real time via the software without audible latency. A lovely thing.

Still enamoured with my RCF HD32a. It’s so good that I just don’t think about it - total GAS killer!

What sort of latency are you getting... in ms?

[CameronJ]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

What sort of latency are you getting... in ms?

To be honest I have absolutely no idea  it certainly isn’t zero but it’s good enough not to be distracting when playing.

[Owen]

On 3/9/2018 at 21:44, LukeFRC said:

**Mainly as one of the nicest sounds I had was the Warwick Hellborg preamp, which I generally had the EQ off on.. so a kinda similar thing to that... 

<Preamp envy>

[lemmywinks]

Quick update on the QSC K10.2 - done about a dozen gigs with it now and it's been fantastic, no lack of grunt and handles an active 5 string with no issues playing motown, soul, disco, pop and a bit of old rock. I'm using it on the default setting at the moment although the bass amp setting was also great, both give lots of volume and clarity. Input B is configurable for a high impedance input so it doesn't matter if your preamp pedal can't drive a regular powered monitor properly. I just use it with the Fishman Pro Platinum, leaving most settings flat apart from adding compression and backing off on the brilliance control a little. Get a go-to sound without any fiddling, just gives a faithful representation of my bass.

The real revelation has been placement options with it being so small, having more room on stage while still being able to hear myself clearly is a massive bonus for me as I'm pretty tall, don't think I'll ever go back to using a traditional amp. My MarkBass rig is being picked up by it's new owner on Wednesday and my BFM Omni 10.5 is also up for sale. Keeping the little EA cab though, that thing it too cute to sell although I no longer have an amp to power it.

[LukeFRC]

4 hours ago, owen said:

<Preamp envy>

Sold it ages back. Miss it.

managed to get hold of a schematic and it's not the Neve or API preamp the marketing dept suggest it is. Does sound good though

[CameronJ]

33 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

The real revelation has been placement options with it being so small, having more room on stage while still being able to hear myself clearly is a massive bonus for me as I'm pretty tall, don't think I'll ever go back to using a traditional amp.

This exactly mirrors my feelings. Only way I’m going back to an amp/cab setup is if it’s provided backline and I have no way of bringing my own monitor.

[Owen]

23 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Sold it ages back. Miss it.

To all the pres we've loved before, that travelled in and out our door........

If anyone wants to mess with the FRFR vibe but not shell out the $, then I have found Mackie SRM350 cabs to be remarkably capable and absolutely dirt cheap 2nd hand. Not full of dsp goodness, but all the other advantages of a small powered cab  

[EBS_freak]

22 hours ago, CameronJ said:

To be honest I have absolutely no idea  it certainly isn’t zero but it’s good enough not to be distracting when playing.

I've found with IEMs, plugins aren't great. You can certainly get away with them without though.

Im currently messing around with Dante interfaces and Live Professor and getting some great results. I'm so tempted to get the Waves bridge... but don't want to be locked into Waves plugins...

[CameronJ]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I've found with IEMs, plugins aren't great. You can certainly get away with them without though.

Im currently messing around with Dante interfaces and Live Professor and getting some great results. I'm so tempted to get the Waves bridge... but don't want to be locked into Waves plugins...

Yeah, to be honest I’ve found myself preferring my natural bass sound over the amp sims. But I’ve never really been an amp sim kinda guy anyway.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, CameronJ said:

Yeah, to be honest I’ve found myself preferring my natural bass sound over the amp sims. But I’ve never really been an amp sim kinda guy anyway.

I'm all about channel strips. Much prefer to sims (on bass that is)

[lemmywinks]

Well, that's the MarkBass rig sold and out the door, I'm now officially ampless. 

[CameronJ]

42 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Well, that's the MarkBass rig sold and out the door, I'm now officially ampless. 

Welcome to the family!

[EBS_freak]

And another one...

[la bam]

Would the following system work?

Tech 21 bass fly rig

into

Crown XLS 1502

It looks like my ideal set up - plenty of routing options etc.

Just need to know if you think this set up would work well. 

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[la bam]

Perfect. Thanks.

Edited April 12, 2018 by la bam

[Al Krow]

Variation on the theme of the OP: dep guitarist in one of my covers bands is using a Helix and wants a transparent monitor / speaker to put it through rather than getting a guitar amp as he feels that an amp will colour what's coming out of his Helix (all the other guitarists I'm working with have gone for the Roland Blues Cube) . He's insisting on 10" rather than 8" (probably correctly?), though. Anyway, we're off to PMT Romford tomorrow to check out Yammy, QSC and RCFs; I may try out the odd bass guitar while I'm up there...