Interesting FRFR story..

[Frank Blank]

On 26/12/2018 at 12:07, Jack said:

So I'm after a wedge. K12.2 or one of the RCF models? Ids for a loudish band (5 piece pub rock) with pa support often but not always, in this band I normally use one barefaced fr800.

I can only speak for the K12.2, although I got the feeling whilst reading the whole of this thread that the RCFs are superior to the QSCs, I’m sure @CameronJ and @stingrayPete1977 will be along to sing their praises forthwith. As @jrixn1 says I like the QSC because it has a more complicated panel and the ‘scenes’ are useful to me too. I also like the fact that it has a bass amp preset. Not very technically I also much prefer the look of the QSC. I bought mine from PMT who advertised the K12.2 with a free tote bag but I’ve yet to see it as it didn’t arrive with one.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Frank Blank

[Delberthot]

4 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I can only speak for the K12.2, although I got the feeling whilst reading the whole of this thread that the RCFs are superior to the QSCs, I’m sure @CameronJ and @stingrayPete1977 will be along to sing their praises forthwith.As @jrixn1 says I like the QSC because it has a more complicated panel and the ‘scenes’ are useful to me too. I also like the fact that it has a bass amp preset. Not very technically I also much prefer the look of the QSC. I bought mine from PMT who advertised the K12.2 with a free tote bag but I’ve yet to see it as it didn’t arrive with one.

Really? - I was under the impression that the bag came at the same time? Ah well, It's only one gig at Hogmanay that I plan to use it for so if it doesn't come at the same time the I can transport mine in the box until i get it.

I got mine from DJ Kit who are an authorised dealer and get a lot of good reviews. They are doing it today only for £718.20 so I've taken the plunge and it should be here on Friday

I checked all other UK authorised dealers and they are all at £756 or higher.

I've emailed QSC as you have to register products within 30 days of purchase to quality for the 6 year warranty but the online form to do this is broken.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Delberthot

[lemmywinks]

1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

I can only speak for the K12.2, although I got the feeling whilst reading the whole of this thread that the RCFs are superior to the QSCs, I’m sure @CameronJ and @stingrayPete1977 will be along to sing their praises forthwith.As @jrixn1 says I like the QSC because it has a more complicated panel and the ‘scenes’ are useful to me too. I also like the fact that it has a bass amp preset. Not very technically I also much prefer the look of the QSC. I bought mine from PMT who advertised the K12.2 with a free tote bag but I’ve yet to see it as it didn’t arrive with one.

Definitely chase them up about the free bag, they aint cheap. I'm a bit peeved at all you lot getting discounted K series cabs with free bags, I paid more to buy a used cab and seperate bag!

 

The RCF 735 is extremely capable, you can put a full band through a pair of them for small to medium size gigs with no subs so they're possibly a bit overkill for personal monitoring. Seriously you'll barely tickle it even on a pretty loud stage, it will do whatever you need from it with absolute ease and the low end will be thumping but crystal clear. I think the QSCs are more compact and look nicer on stage though, I use the K10.2 and it's a very handy size when it comes to monitor placement, it's much smaller and more wedge-like than our RCF 735 cabs and is much easier to find a place for on a stage. From memory the K12.2 is a similar size to some of the RCF cabs.

[Jack]

Hmmmm, you're all providing a great deal of useful information and generally being nice but it's not helping me narrow it down! 😁

[Delberthot]

3 minutes ago, Jack said:

Hmmmm, you're all providing a great deal of useful information and generally being nice but it's not helping me narrow it down! 😁

The way I have taken it is that the RCF 735 & 745 are superior but maybe more than is required for what we are looking to use it for. The QSC K10.2 is plenty enough to be gigging with as a bass monitor but the K12.2 gives you a bit more headroom just in case

Edited December 26, 2018 by Delberthot

[CameronJ]

3 hours ago, Jack said:

So I'm after a wedge. K12.2 or one of the RCF models? Ids for a loudish band (5 piece pub rock) with pa support often but not always, in this band I normally use one barefaced fr800.

Based purely on speculation I’d assume that the relationship between HF & LF drivers in your Barefaced FR800 is probably similar to the relationship between HF & LF drivers in the RCFs, so maybe go with one of them to aim for a closer tonal match. I can’t find the specs re: crossover point in the FR800 but the BF website says the HF driver deals with the highs and high-mids.

The RCF HD32a (the one I have) sells for £818 at PMT and Andertons.

The RCF ART732 (12” version of the 735) is as far as I can tell pretty much exactly the same as the HD32a but in a different (less attractive?) casing and can be found for as low as ~£740

Meanwhile, I’ve just stumbled upon an ART735 selling cheap on Gear4Music for £715 - here. Only 1 in stock. I think it may be a previous generation model but not entirely sure. Makes very little difference to me whether it’s a MK4/MK5 or whatever. The only thing that would put me off it is the size. The difference between the 12” monitors and the 15s is enough to perhaps be a bit prohibitive in certain venues.  They ain’t exactly compact!

Edited December 26, 2018 by CameronJ

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, Delberthot said:

The way I have taken it is that the RCF 735 & 745 are superior but maybe more than is required for what we are looking to use it for. The QSC K10.2 is plenty enough to be gigging with as a bass monitor but the K12.2 gives you a bit more headroom just in case

I think this sums it up concisely.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, CameronJ said:

Based purely on speculation I’d assume that the relationship between HF & LF drivers in your Barefaced FR800 is probably similar to the relationship between HF & LF drivers in the RCFs, so maybe go with one of them to aim for a closer tonal match. I can’t find the specs re: crossover point in the FR800 but the BF website says the HF driver deals with the highs and high-mids.

The RCF HD32a (the one I have) sells for £818 at PMT and Andertons.

The RCF ART732 (12” version of the 735) is as far as I can tell pretty much exactly the same as the HD32a but in a different (less attractive?) casing and can be found for as low as ~£740

Meanwhile, I’ve just stumbled upon an ART735 selling cheap on Gear4Music for £715 - here. Only 1 in stock. I think it may be a previous generation model but not entirely sure. Makes very little difference to me whether it’s a MK4/MK5 or whatever. The only thing that would put me off it is the size. The difference between the 12” monitors and the 15s is enough to perhaps be a bit prohibitive in certain venues.  They ain’t exactly compact!

If the barefaced fd800 is their take on a FRFR PA speaker... but with a low driver optimised for bass guitar - would the QSC or RCF offer much of an upgrade to be worth the switch? 

 

Edit: esp if we rule out the 15” RCF with the fancy hf driver

Edited December 26, 2018 by LukeFRC

[CameronJ]

47 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

If the barefaced fd800 is their take on a FRFR PA speaker... but with a low driver optimised for bass guitar - would the QSC or RCF offer much of an upgrade to be worth the switch? 

 

Edit: esp if we rule out the 15” RCF with the fancy hf driver

The two 12” RCFs I suggested also have the fancy HF driver.

I assume @Jack isn’t looking for an upgrade per se, just a reasonable alternative in a wedge shaped form?

[Jack]

It's not an upgrade as such, just been fancying a wedge rather than the traditional cab Barefaced, they are listed for sale. Thanks for all the help so far. I just keep going around and around between:

QSC K12.2 - cheapest, lightest, great dsp, flexibility to plug straight in, probably the weakest-sounding

RCF 732 - just an xlr in, same size as the QSC but probably beefier for the loud band

RCF 735 - too big and too heavy but with the other two I worry about being loud enough for no PA support, not so with this!

 

I think I'm heading for the 732 as it seems the best compromise...

Edited December 26, 2018 by Jack

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, Jack said:

QSC K12.2 - cheapest, lightest, great dsp, flexibility to plug straight in, probably the weakest-sounding.

If the K12.2 is the weakest sounding then the RCFs must be like Möterhead-in-a-box!

[Jack]

5 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

If the K12.2 is the weakest sounding then the RCFs must be like Möterhead-in-a-box!

That's the impression that I get, but I've never sat in a room with the three of them together...

 

And, even if it IS the weakest, it might still be enough! I just see a lot of people using the QSC in settings that aren't super loud rock bands. Argh but then half of my gigs I don't use any amps at all so it shouldn't matter!

[Frank Blank]

8 minutes ago, Jack said:

That's the impression that I get, but I've never sat in a room with the three of them together...

I think this is exactly what you should do. I was going to do this but I went in before the K10.2 had arrived, I just tried the 12.2 and liked it so much I bought it. The RCFs were there as well but I didn’t dare try them simply because I find them so ugly, if they had sounded great I would have a dilemma on my hands and a dilemma I do not need. I play in an acoustic duo so I imagine the K10.2 would have been ample for my needs and the 12 overkill really, but you never know when you’ll end up in a dub/thrash outfit now do you?

[lemmywinks]

I wouldn't discount the HD32A that CameronJ uses, that's kinda the RCF equivalent to the QSC K12.2 in terms of size and weight. It's all about that voice coil on the HF unit really, IIRC (going off the MkIV versions) the 745 has a 4" voice coil, the HD32A and the 735 have a 3" one. Either will be great.

 

FWIW I've been using the K10.2 in an increasingly loud live situation recently due to our drummer having hearing loss and our stage sound creeping up rapidly which has resulted in me pumping the little QSC far more than I ever intended to and it's coped with it easily. It's an amazing little thing which just seems to keep on going. Our drummer is currently out of action while his ears are dealt with and the dep we had last Friday was loving the bass sound coming from the K10.2 so make of that what you will. He's a pro player who mainly does musicals/theatre work and deps for some of the top bands in our area. Not a quiet drummer, loudish kit but clean with lots of sonic space (no wallowing) if you know what I mean.

TLDR: I have no fear of cranking the volume with the k10.2!

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

I wouldn't discount the HD32A that CameronJ uses, that's kinda the RCF equivalent to the QSC K12.2 in terms of size and weight. It's all about that voice coil on the HF unit really, IIRC (going off the MkIV versions) the 745 has a 4" voice coil, the HD32A and the 735 have a 3" one. Either will be great.

 

FWIW I've been using the K10.2 in an increasingly loud live situation recently due to our drummer having hearing loss and our stage sound creeping up rapidly which has resulted in me pumping the little QSC far more than I ever intended to and it's coped with it easily. It's an amazing little thing which just seems to keep on going. Our drummer is currently out of action while his ears are dealt with and the dep we had last Friday was loving the bass sound coming from the K10.2 so make of that what you will. He's a pro player who mainly does musicals/theatre work and deps for some of the top bands in our area. Not a quiet drummer, loudish kit but clean with lots of sonic space (no wallowing) if you know what I mean.

TLDR: I have no fear of cranking the volume with the k10.2!

No, nor me..

[lemmywinks]

Btw (straying into OT) the dep guy has one of the clearest sounding kits I've ever heard, a Mapex jobby but dunno what the snare was. Acoustically it's spot on - each drum has it's own little space in the sonic spectrum and I don't think our sound guy knew what to do with it other than to eq the kick and leave the rest alone. Can see how he gets loads of work! Top drummer too, really adaptive and fluid as well as being a nice bloke. I usually dread dep drummers but he was great.

[jrixn1]

13 hours ago, Jack said:

RCF 732 - just an xlr in, same size as the QSC but probably beefier for the loud band

It has both XLR and jack inputs.

[stingrayPete1977]

16 hours ago, CameronJ said:

The two 12” RCFs I suggested also have the fancy HF driver.

I assume @Jack isn’t looking for an upgrade per se, just a reasonable alternative in a wedge shaped form?

I presume we are talking about the ability to handle the bottom end when they are talking about the fancy HF driver? if so only the 735 and 745 have it coupled to the 15" driver. I am sure the 12 is good but it wont handle the bass like the 15, it is the spec and cost of the 15 in the 735/745 that makes them expensive yet a bargain at the same time!

 

I have a pair of 735s yet even when they are not on FOH duty I never use them, I use a Genz 12" cab and head combo as my monitor, if that can't keep up with the stage volume it is not a band I want to be in anyway,lol.

Edited December 27, 2018 by stingrayPete1977

[Delberthot]

On 26/12/2018 at 14:26, Frank Blank said:

 I bought mine from PMT who advertised the K12.2 with a free tote bag but I’ve yet to see it as it didn’t arrive with one.

My one has just been delivered and the tote bag was included so I'd definitely chase it up. There's a chance that they simply didn't have any in stock but it would have been nice of them to tell you when you could expect it.

PMT are on the QSC website as an official dealer so there shouldn't be any problem getting it - if not contact QSC on their Facebook page, they respond pretty quickly

[Frank Blank]

10 minutes ago, Delberthot said:

My one has just been delivered and the tote bag was included so I'd definitely chase it up. There's a chance that they simply didn't have any in stock but it would have been nice of them to tell you when you could expect it.

PMT are on the QSC website as an official dealer so there shouldn't be any problem getting it - if not contact QSC on their Facebook page, they respond pretty quickly

I think it was because I asked them to get it in just to try out I’m sure it’ll arrive soon enough. In the meantime I’ve ordered a cover from HotCovers anyway.

[Frank Blank]

13 minutes ago, Delberthot said:

My one has just been delivered...

Congratulations on the purchase, let us know how you get on with it.

[Delberthot]

3 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Congratulations on the purchase, let us know how you get on with it.

Absolutely - it's been sitting in various cold trucks, vans and warehouses for the past 24 hours so I have it sitting in the living room getting up to temperature before I open it up and try it out

[Delberthot]

Well my first thought on powering it up was that I may have got a dud as there was a lot of distortion when playing an open G. It took me a while to work out that it was actually the contents of my house vibrating 😛

I've had a play with it in the house but I am trying to find a rehearsal room with a free hour slot available tomorrow as I need some time to get to grips with it before I gig on 31st

I only have one concern which is that when it is sitting in the monitor position, the power and instrument cables and slightly squashed against the ground. I'll probably invest in a right angled power cable

[Frank Blank]

3 minutes ago, Delberthot said:

Well my first thought on powering it up was that I may have got a dud as there was a lot of distortion when playing an open G. It took me a while to work out that it was actually the contents of my house vibrating 😛

I've had a play with it in the house but I am trying to find a rehearsal room with a free hour slot available tomorrow as I need some time to get to grips with it before I gig on 31st

I only have one concern which is that when it is sitting in the monitor position, the power and instrument cables and slightly squashed against the ground. I'll probably invest in a right angled power cable

I found exactly the same with the leads, even the mains lead it is supplied with is squished when the unit is in angled monitor position. I need the right angled power lead too!

[stingrayPete1977]

We have the same issue with our DBtechnologies powered monitors.