Interesting FRFR story..

[JohnFitzgerald]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Not really no - the XR channel settings would be for your core tone... it would be a bit clunky otherwise.

You can pick scenes and settings for a show, yes. But I wouldn't use it like that, because I'm scared...

[Frank Blank]

Hmmmm. I’m now on the horns of a dilemma. As enlightening as the mixer route info is (seriously cheers @EBS_freak) it is useful in another way as in to hone my nebulous ideas about what I want/need between my bass and the QSC. I will further discuss the live mixer route with my duo partner and no doubt come back here for further info. What worries me about the mixer route is it means (or at least will for me) a lot of learning new stuff, which, of course, isn’t a bad thing but a) I’m not particularly tech minded and b) I’m trying to keep the kit as small as possible.

I have  read up on the Grace Designs Felix which appears to have two channels with separate EQs, as does the Bassbone OD (thanks @Muzz). I’m also not averse to the idea of having two preamps and switching between them with something like the Boss LS-2, but again it’s not the ‘one box solution’ which brings me then back to @EBS_freak‘s mixer solutions. I suppose I’m thinking more of when I’m at home noodling/writing I just want a very simple set up but one where I can swap basses quickly (thinking about it that applies to live too). I asked the initial question because I hoped there was such a thing as a two channel preamp that could drive the QSC and cope with inputs from a passive electric bass and an active acoustic. I think I’m worried that if I went down the mixer route I’d barely use a fraction of its capabilities but then they are there when possibly needed in the future (and once I’ve learned the difference between an XLR and a barometer). Then there’s cost, the Felix is around £1100 and does a very specific job, albeit brilliantly apparently, then the mixers cost much less but do loads more, but are bigger, more complicated, bloody cables everywhere...

Not so much the horns of a dilemma but the antlers maybe, anyway, as always, everyone thanks for the input.

[jrixn1]

@Frank Blank  Providence Dual Bass Station?

 

[intime-nick]

re. the XR mixers : you can switch the FX channels / inserts on/off i believe via a midi footswitch but i haven't done that myself (yet).  I think some people have used the Behringer FCB1010 to do this and there are some custom made switch boxes available 

Edited January 13, 2019 by intime-nick

[Frank Blank]

2 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

@Frank Blank  Providence Dual Bass Station?

 

Thanks @jrixn1, will take a shufti.

[LukeFRC]

3 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Hmmmm. I’m now on the horns of a dilemma. As enlightening as the mixer route info is (seriously cheers @EBS_freak) it is useful in another way as in to hone my nebulous ideas about what I want/need between my bass and the QSC. I will further discuss the live mixer route with my duo partner and no doubt come back here for further info. What worries me about the mixer route is it means (or at least will for me) a lot of learning new stuff, which, of course, isn’t a bad thing but a) I’m not particularly tech minded and b) I’m trying to keep the kit as small as possible.

I have  read up on the Grace Designs Felix which appears to have two channels with separate EQs, as does the Bassbone OD (thanks @Muzz). I’m also not averse to the idea of having two preamps and switching between them with something like the Boss LS-2, but again it’s not the ‘one box solution’ which brings me then back to @EBS_freak‘s mixer solutions. I suppose I’m thinking more of when I’m at home noodling/writing I just want a very simple set up but one where I can swap basses quickly (thinking about it that applies to live too). I asked the initial question because I hoped there was such a thing as a two channel preamp that could drive the QSC and cope with inputs from a passive electric bass and an active acoustic. I think I’m worried that if I went down the mixer route I’d barely use a fraction of its capabilities but then they are there when possibly needed in the future (and once I’ve learned the difference between an XLR and a barometer). Then there’s cost, the Felix is around £1100 and does a very specific job, albeit brilliantly apparently, then the mixers cost much less but do loads more, but are bigger, more complicated, bloody cables everywhere...

Not so much the horns of a dilemma but the antlers maybe, anyway, as always, everyone thanks for the input.

Question - you’re a two piece duo, is the FRFR speaker for FOH or foldback for you/you both? 

 

[Frank Blank]

48 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Question - you’re a two piece duo, is the FRFR speaker for FOH or foldback for you/you both? 

Foldback for both of us.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

Foldback for both of us.

Bass and other instrument- any vox in there? 

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

Bass and other instrument- any vox in there? 

In my QRC just bass.

[LukeFRC]

20 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

In my QRC just bass.

If you’re spending £1k on a preamp wouldn’t something like the helix work - I think you can have two separate channel paths, one each for both of you. Then feed two Di out to PA or blend to your foldback or whatever you need to do. 

I’m not sure how big a gig you play - but Theres part of me that wonders why you wouldn’t just use one of the foldback channels on the FOH desk to create a blend for your speaker. Then you get your nice preamp just for your bass. I can’t remember if you needed two channels for two basses too but you could collect multiple the fishman pres you like for less than the felix ? 

[Frank Blank]

23 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

If you’re spending £1k on a preamp wouldn’t something like the helix work - I think you can have two separate channel paths, one each for both of you. Then feed two Di out to PA or blend to your foldback or whatever you need to do. 

I’m not sure how big a gig you play - but Theres part of me that wonders why you wouldn’t just use one of the foldback channels on the FOH desk to create a blend for your speaker. Then you get your nice preamp just for your bass. I can’t remember if you needed two channels for two basses too but you could collect multiple the fishman pres you like for less than the felix ? 

I have an acoustic bass and a passive bass that need separate eq but ultimately to go into one input on the QSC. When we rehearse I go through the QSC but my partner sings and plays acoustic mostly unamplified, occasionally they will use an amp but rarely. In a live situation I play the acoustic bass through the Fishman, into the QSC and DI out from the back of the QSC, my partner usually DIs straight to the desk and relies on the venue’s foldback, so, at the moment, we don’t share anything.

[jimbobothy]

The Radial Tonebone Bassbone is a good one box solution for two different basses into one input. I’ve   the V1 version and that has enough options for me, however the V2 and the OD versions have even more.

Edited January 13, 2019 by jimbobothy
Added a missed word

[Bridgehouse]

@Frank Blank I know you won’t like it, but if I want two distinct sounds and two basses, I use my Helix. 

Bass -> Helix -> QSC

[Frank Blank]

14 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

@Frank Blank I know you won’t like it, but if I want two distinct sounds and two basses, I use my Helix. 

Bass -> Helix -> QSC

*sigh* I’m holding out because, indeed, I have two basses and want two distinct sounds but I want the cleanest most uncoloured sound possible from both and that’s all I want, those two. Again I would feel like I wasn’t using a fraction of the capabilities of a Helix just to get two variations of eq and gain? I feel as if my (by now no doubt boring) query is coming around to your earlier two preamps with a line switcher suggestion. Mind you there are smaller Helixes... (I’m assuming you are using the top Helix model?)

[Bridgehouse]

5 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

*sigh* I’m holding out because, indeed, I have two basses and want two distinct sounds but I want the cleanest most uncoloured sound possible from both and that’s all I want, those two. Again I would feel like I wasn’t using a fraction of the capabilities of a Helix just to get two variations of eq and gain? I feel as if my (by now no doubt boring) query is coming around to your earlier two preamps with a line switcher suggestion. Mind you there are smaller Helixes... (I’m assuming you are using the top Helix model?)

Yep full fat helix - but I use it to record at home, and vocals, and all sorts of other audio interface stuff...

TBH I reckon you could get away with 2x preamps on a board in serial and switching on and off as needed. That’s about as simple as it would get...

[Frank Blank]

16 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

TBH I reckon you could get away with 2x preamps on a board in serial and switching on and off as needed. That’s about as simple as it would get...

Reaching new levels of dumb here but how would I switch them on and off if they are in parallel? The Fishman has a boost and a tuner mute but is just ‘on’ when an instrument is plugged into the input?

[jrixn1]

22 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Reaching new levels of dumb here but how would I switch them on and off if they are in parallel? The Fishman has a boost and a tuner mute but is just ‘on’ when an instrument is plugged into the input?

Unfortunately, you can't turn the Fishman Plat Pro off -- one of the reasons I sold mine. You'd have to put it in a loop and turn that loop on/off; or run it into an AB switch.

Edited January 14, 2019 by jrixn1

[Frank Blank]

8 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Unfortunately, you can't turn the Fishman Plat Pro off -- one of the reasons I sold mine. You'd have to put it in a loop and turn that loop on/off; or run it into an AB switch.

What did you replace it with?

[jrixn1]

Sorry if it was already covered, but how does the Mouse sound going directly into the QSC?  I.e. do you need an external pre-amp in the first place?  If not, that would simplify things, of course.

My pedalboard looks a bit like this:

I switch between upright and P bass, but normally between sets so just physically swap the cable between basses.  If the gig has a lot of switching, I'll add an AB box at the front.

The Zoom MS-60B has a Fishman emulation module, which is the only thing I use. If you want to look it up in the Zoom manual, it's called 'Ac Bs Pre'.  I have stored two of my own presets (you press the footswitch to change between your presets):

• for upright: some eq + HPF
• for P bass: just the HPF.

The MXR is my DI box.  The XLR output goes to FOH; the jack output goes to my RCF.  The only knob I ever change is the output level, which (since I have the pedal in 'pre' mode) only affects the volume of the RCF, not FOH.  I never use the EQ; if they made this pedal without the EQ (and footswitch), I'd buy that one instead.  The whole thing is an expensive way to avoid using the volume knob on the RCF.

[Frank Blank]

8 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Sorry if it was already covered, but how does the Mouse sound going directly into the QSC?  I.e. do you need an external pre-amp in the first place?  If not, that would simplify things, of course.

My pedalboard looks a bit like this:

I switch between upright and P bass, but normally between sets so just physically swap the cable between basses.  If the gig has a lot of switching, I'll add an AB box at the front.

The Zoom MS-60B has a Fishman emulation module, which is the only thing I use. If you want to look it up in the Zoom manual, it's called 'Ac Bs Pre'.  I have stored two of my own presets (you press the footswitch to change between your presets):

• for upright: some eq + HPF
• for P bass: just the HPF.

The MXR is my DI box.  The XLR output goes to FOH; the jack output goes to my RCF.  The only knob I ever change is the output level, which (since I have the pedal in 'pre' mode) only affects the volume of the RCF, not FOH.  I never use the EQ; if they made this pedal without the EQ (and footswitch), I'd buy that one instead.  The whole thing is an expensive way to avoid using the volume knob on the RCF.

This is great info, I'll be looking into the Zoom, cheers.

[jrixn1]

On 12/01/2019 at 11:39, Frank Blank said:

The Behringer XR12 [...] So could I, using such a piece of kit, put both basses through but switch between them with a foot switch? 

 

On 12/01/2019 at 14:17, EBS_freak said:

You can either mute the channels (or turn the volumes down on the basses that are connected to the mixer) and have all your instruments plugged into the mixer. Or you could have one lead into a switch which would a b into two channels on the mixer.

I believe you can save "snapshots" -- so one per instrument? -- and then cycle through those snapshots with a midi pedal like the Tech21 Midi Mouse. This is just from reading the manuals so perhaps someone could confirm.

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

I believe you can save "snapshots" -- so one per instrument? -- and then cycle through those snapshots with a midi pedal like the Tech21 Midi Mouse. This is just from reading the manuals so perhaps someone could confirm.

You can - the only problems comes if you have moved the sliders. It will recall with the saved slider positions.

[jrixn1]

There are no sliders on the XR12 - but I might be confused/misunderstood.

[Jack]

17 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

I believe you can save "snapshots" -- so one per instrument? -- and then cycle through those snapshots with a midi pedal like the Tech21 Midi Mouse. This is just from reading the manuals so perhaps someone could confirm.

The problem with that is that anything else plugged into the mixer would need an identical channel in each scene. As in, say you have a vocal mix plugged in channel 1. When you change a scene to move from bass to guitar, you'll need an identical channel 1 set up for the vocal mic in the new scene. If youv'e changed a setting or something on the vocal channel it'll get really tedious having to scroll through lots of scenes to change it in all of them.

The other thing to do (as long as you have more channels than instruments) is have a virtual channel per instrument in the mixer (say, channel 1 for bass, channel 2 for guitar, etc) and then you can use midi to assign any given physical input on the mixer to any virtual channel. That way each instrument's channel would always be live and you would negate any scene issues. So there's one cable from your place on stage to the mixer, but you're using midi to essentially really quickly unplug that cable from one channel and plug in into the next. Mind you, I'd just have a channel per instrument and live with having several cables, no midi needed!....

[EBS_freak]

4 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

There are no sliders on the XR12 - but I might be confused/misunderstood.

I'm talking about the virtual faders that are in the app.