Interesting FRFR story..

[Frank Blank]

46 minutes ago, JottoSW1 said:

Must admit I've found the Qsc items that have been on sale here fascinating.

QSC 👍

Edited July 6, 2020 by Frank Blank

[EBS_freak]

Just to clarify.

735, 745.

Not anything else. The key numbers are the leading 7, the 3 or 4 and the trailing 5. Not that I'm an authority on the subject - but they are the only two cabs I would want to entertain... and both are proven.

[BigRedX]

I'm completely sold on my 745 cab. I can't see myself going back to a traditional bass rig.

Interesting none of the bassists who have been forced to use my set-up because of equipment sharing gigs have had anything bad to say either. Some have been pleasantly surprised.

[JottoSW1]

3 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

QSC 👍

Many moons ago recall a studio owner pal having some major hassles with some of their power amps mind.

[Frank Blank]

4 minutes ago, JottoSW1 said:

Many moons ago recall a studio owner pal having some major hassles with some of their power amps mind.

Sorry, I'll be more specific...

QSC K12.2 👍

[JottoSW1]

Just now, Frank Blank said:

Sorry, I'll be more specific...

QSC K12.2 👍

Yes, would like to hear that with a nice preamp etc. Being a Luddite and hobbyist am over invested in trad Amps Cabs presently. Primarily lightweight Cabs admittedly.

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, JottoSW1 said:

Yes, would like to hear that with a nice preamp etc. Being a Luddite and hobbyist am over invested in trad Amps Cabs presently. Primarily lightweight Cabs admittedly.

Well when (if ever) we come out from under the cloud of this virus you are welcome to try mine. I use a HX Stomp at the moment but used to go through a Fishman Platinum Pro preamp, sounded great.

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Well when (if ever) we come out from under the cloud of this virus you are welcome to try mine. I use a HX Stomp at the moment but used to go through a Fishman Platinum Pro preamp, sounded great.

And it doesn’t now?!

love that Rochester comp

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

And it doesn’t now?!

love that Rochester comp

Oh no, it sounds great now too, just 7 million variables good.

[Delberthot]

I tried a few preamps before getting my Tonebone Bassbone. Absolutely amazing sound from this that's it's nigh on impossible to sound bad regardless of what the controls are set to

[stevie]

There's an interesting comparison here of the RCF 745 and its wooden cabinet equivalent, the NX45:

 

The benefits of the wooden cabinet are clear to hear, with the 745 suffering badly from boom/tizz. Surprisingly also, vocal reproduction on the NX is fuller and more natural. At least that's what I'm hearing.

As Russ mentioned on a previous occasion, the differences would probably never be noticed by your average punter, although for many (including yours truly) that's never been a criterion.

Thoughts?

[RichardH]

Quite a big difference there! NX sounds much more open, doesn't it.

[EBS_freak]

...

1 hour ago, stevie said:

Thoughts?

I'll give it a proper listen in a bit...but I find the YT comments underneath interesting!

[Chienmortbb]

Would have been nice to hear music through them.lol. It was like there were holes in the response on the ART745.

I remember a similar feeling when the Ramsa WS-AT200 rep;laced the WS-A200. The WS-A200 was a brick sh*thouse od a speaker. Those of a certain age may rememebr the add where an elephant was standing on 4 of them.

Above is the WS-A200 Half inch thick resin cabinet reinforced with wooden braces. and ribbed all round for added strength.

The WS-AT200 replacec it and was a ppile of pants, nmade to a price  and the fashoionable trapezoid shape, Much thinner injectuiion moulded palstic and a sound to match despite  reasonable drivers.

I heard similar differences in those.

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Chienmortbb

[RichardH]

...I noticed the most difference on the Scritti Politi (first) track. 

[stevie]

13 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

...

I'll give it a proper listen in a bit...but I find the YT comments underneath interesting!

Looking forward to your comments.

[stevie]

5 minutes ago, RichardH said:

...I noticed the most difference on the Scritti Politi (first) track. 

Yes, that's quite a useful test track for highlighting differences. I might start using it myself.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, stevie said:

Looking forward to your comments.

OK - in a gig environment, I reckon the real world difference would be minimal, especially when considering the average punters ears.. and especially if the things are being deployed with subs. But I concur, the 745s seem to go a bit deeper but at the expense of tightness (this would be a null point with subs I suspect). The top end is a bit more fizzy. The midrange is a little thinner on the 745, compared to the warmer, thicker midrange in the NX. I think the NX is a better sounding cab - although those that are used to a more hyped top end and a hankering for cut mids, I suspect will prefer the 745s.

Yes, I like the NX - but probably not enough to actually change. Mind you, I'd have to listen to them in person before making such a decision... but given the fact that I haven't left the house in 4 months, I don't think I'll be using any PA equipment any time soon.

[4000]

On 19/04/2018 at 13:37, Al Krow said:

RCF 735A = 48 lbs

Not light.

£875.

Not cheap.

700W RMS, more than adequate.

 

I’ve been reading this thread with great interest, up to this point (I’ll read on later, so forgive me if I miss something pertinent). 48lbs is way, way over what I want to be carrying these days. I got rid of an Aguilar GS112  some years back because carrying it was troubling my severely damaged back. I think that was 42lb. Prior to that I sold a Trace 1153 because it had become unworkable (about 57 lbs?). 

These days I play in a band with acoustic guitars and cajon. We do our own sound (effectively muddling through as we’re all getting on and not very modern-tech savvy; in my youth I relied on analogue gear and pro soundmen) with a pair of EV tops to which we occasionally add a sub when required. 

My current rig is a Tech21 VT500 with a pair of BF One10s (15lb each IIRC), although I generally only use 1. I wouldn’t really like to go noticeably heavier.  Some gigs I just use my VT pedal and go through our monitors, although personally I don’t like the sound of my bass through our monitors (most monitors in fact), pedal or no, however it’s eq’d. 

I like the idea of using FRFR and a modeller, but given the size of my rig (tiny) and complete lack of experience with and therefore aversion to digital modelling, is there much point? Genuine question. I’ll add that looking at a Helix (which I’d never even heard of a year ago) signal chain someone had set up that (very successfully) mimicked Chris Squire’s sound completely lost me. It seemed incredibly complicated considering that I can turn 4 actual knobs and I’m good to go. I’ll add that beyond using some slight distortion I have never used effects so it’s not something I ever got comfortable with. 

So, given the above, and assuming there was any point, are there any suggestions for a small FRFR? Or is it really pointless? 
 

Right, back to reading the rest of the thread! EDIT - Jeez, that’s about another 20 pages.☹️

Edited July 16, 2020 by 4000

[Frank Blank]

8 minutes ago, 4000 said:

So, given the above, and assuming there was any point, are there any suggestions for a small FRFR? Or is it really pointless? 

Bass > HX Stomp > QSC K12.2. - QSC K12.2 = 39 lb / 17.7 kg

QSC K10 = 31.8 lb / 14.4 kg

I play in a similar acoustic outfit as you and the K12.2 is way too loud for our use really. Hopefully @Bridgehouse will be along to tell you how excellent his QSC 10.2 would be for your band.

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Bass > HX Stomp > QSC K12.2. - QSC K12.2 = 39 lb / 17.7 kg

QSC K10 = 31.8 lb / 14.4 kg

I play in a similar acoustic outfit as you and the K12.2 is way too loud for our use really. Hopefully @Bridgehouse will be along to tell you how excellent his QSC 10.2 would be for your band.

I’ve never had a problem with volume with the 10.2

Its always been enough

[Frank Blank]

Just now, Bridgehouse said:

I’ve never had a problem with volume with the 10.2

Its always been enough

...and significantly lighter than mine.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, 4000 said:

I’ve been reading this thread with great interest, up to this point (I’ll read on later, so forgive me if I miss something pertinent). 48lbs is way, way over what I want to be carrying these days. I got rid of an Aguilar GS112  some years back because carrying it was troubling my severely damaged back. I think that was 42lb. Prior to that I sold a Trace 1153 because it had become unworkable (about 57 lbs?). 

These days I play in a band with acoustic guitars and cajon. We do our own sound (effectively muddling through as we’re all getting on and not very modern-tech savvy; in my youth I relied on analogue gear and pro soundmen) with a pair of EV tops to which we occasionally add a sub when required. 

My current rig is a Tech21 VT500 with a pair of BF One10s (15lb each IIRC), although I generally only use 1. I wouldn’t really like to go noticeably heavier.  Some gigs I just use my VT pedal and go through our monitors, although personally I don’t like the sound of my bass through our monitors (most monitors in fact), pedal or no, however it’s eq’d. 

I like the idea of using FRFR and a modeller, but given the size of my rig (tiny) and complete lack of experience with and therefore aversion to digital modelling, is there much point? Genuine question. I’ll add that looking at a Helix (which I’d never even heard of a year ago) signal chain someone had set up that (very successfully) mimicked Chris Squire’s sound completely lost me. It seemed incredibly complicated considering that I can turn 4 actual knobs and I’m good to go. I’ll add that beyond using some slight distortion I have never used effects so it’s not something I ever got comfortable with. 

So, given the above, and assuming there was any point, are there any suggestions for a small FRFR? Or is it really pointless? 
 

Right, back to reading the rest of the thread! EDIT - Jeez, that’s about another 20 pages.☹️

Haha - that's exactly where I got stuck two years back! I ended up with a BF SC (or BB2)  & D class head for rehearsal / gigging purposes. My back is happy.

The real challenge, if the FRFR crew are being honest, is getting a FRFR unit that is not specifically tuned for bass which can deal with bass frequencies as well as a quality dedicated bass cab. From what I have gleaned, you need to be looking at something like an RCF 735A to really deliver similar quality.

Obviously there will be plenty of kit that will be "good enough". But, even then, not at the weight of a BF SC cab. 

[4000]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

Bass > HX Stomp > QSC K12.2. - QSC K12.2 = 39 lb / 17.7 kg

QSC K10 = 31.8 lb / 14.4 kg

I play in a similar acoustic outfit as you and the K12.2 is way too loud for our use really. Hopefully @Bridgehouse will be along to tell you how excellent his QSC 10.2 would be for your band.

K12.2 = definitely too heavy. It’s not that I can’t lift it; I can still shift some serious weight when required. It’s the effect on my back afterwards. I won’t go into details. 
 

K10 = still heavier than ideal, although maybe workable. Obviously 1 of my cabs only weighs 15lb. I’d have to try one. 

[LukeFRC]

40 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The real challenge, if the FRFR crew are being honest, is getting a FRFR unit that is not specifically tuned for bass which can deal with bass frequencies as well as a quality dedicated bass cab that aims for reasonably flat response, (Like ACME B2, B112; Barefaced BB2; Stevie's BCCab ... ). From what I have gleaned, you need to be looking at something like an RCF 735A to really deliver similar low end response.

corrected it for you!  

I agree though, if you've got a bass cab designed for a fairly flat response. Barefaced BB2 is by far the best thing on the market in that respect IMO. 

It depends on the circumstance. Some swear on their RCF and I don't want to contradict their experience but the K12.2 that frank black has would kick out enough low end for me, as the gigs I play and have played have been in venues with PA support that can take the bass.