Interesting FRFR story..

[Chienmortbb]

On 21/11/2017 at 15:32, EBS_freak said:

Winning rig.

People seem to forget that the drivers that are used in PA speakers are generally superior to those found in even boutique bass cabs... 

I am not sure this is quite true. A lot of the sound is shaped by the DSP, even/especially on a flat setting. This can allow the use of speakers that might not be suitable for a passive bass cabinet.

[EBS_freak]

21/22/2017 - try catching up on the thread before commenting. I think I have covered off the DSP stuff a lot of time. I even put a video where there a cab where the response of the cab, through DSP, was shown to be flat - measuring using SMAART.

Anyway, to address the speaker comment. It all comes down to economies of scale - PA speakers sold in higher numbers, therefore the price to performance ratio can be better on larger production lines.

Yes, you can theoretically design FRFR passive cabs - but at a greater cost than you could by correcting a cab through DSP. Spoiler - a lot of the passive cabs that are advertised as FRFR - are from it.  

[Owen]

On 04/09/2020 at 19:32, owen said:

I work in an FE college. The Perf Arts dept need a new PA. Theirs is a 2nd hand Studispares active bin and 12" top. About 12 years old. It is fair to say they have seen better days. The dance teacher does not understand the concept of restraint. I have reccomended a pair of RCF 745 for FOH. A pair of QSC K10.2 for monitors and a pair of QSC K8.2 for the singing teacher for backing tracks and teaching mic technique etc. Obviously I will be auditioning them all on the weekends. I blame this thread. 

Then our manager decided that he did not want to spend the £ so cancelled the RCFs and the QSC8.2 and hopes that the QSC10.2 will cover what the RCFs were for (Dance studio/Old School Gym for 40 dancers). He did not even discuss it with me. I just do not know why I even bothered.

[Owen]

I librated one of the QSC K10.2 boxes last night to bring home for the weekend. It is quite the thing.

[dave_bass5]

Ive just got a Yamaha DBR12 to use with my Synth, but the first thing I did was hook up my Zoom B1-Four ( i sold my Helix recently) and play bass through it. First time ive picked a bass up since July. 

I was very impressed with this tone. I had a Fearless F112 last year, but felt it was a bit too open and bright. I think it was the mid driver that made it sound like this. Playing with a pick i just couldn't get what i was looking for out of it. 

The DBR12 seems warmer, but still without an obvious colouring. I know its a budget cab, but I think i could gig on bass with this and the B1 if i didnt have anything else to play through. 

Very happy with it. 

[dave_bass5]

On 21/11/2020 at 11:43, owen said:

I librated one of the QSC K10.2 boxes last night to bring home for the weekend. It is quite the thing.

I really wanted to get one of those, but its out of my price range. Once day. 

Although ive not sold my CN212 yet, this is my new Bass rig. 

[Frank Blank]

58 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Although ive not sold my CN212 yet, this is my new Bass rig. 

Excellent, looks very, very similar to mine. (QSC K12.2 / HX Stomp).

[dave_bass5]

23 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Excellent, looks very, very similar to mine. (QSC K12.2 / HX Stomp).

Cheers, how are you liking your rig?  I’m sure mine would be fine for small gigs, but I’m not sure about louder ones. At the next rehearsal I’m going to take my B1 and my bass player said he would play a song with this rig so i can hear how well it works for bass. 

[Frank Blank]

12 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Cheers, how are you liking your rig?  I’m sure mine would be fine for small gigs, but I’m not sure about louder ones. At the next rehearsal I’m going to take my B1 and my bass player said he would play a song with this rig so i can hear how well it works for bass. 

I love it, never going back to a trad rig. Quieter gigs it can be used as a monitor or backline but louder gigs it’s fine as a monitor, you don’t need anything else imho.

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

I love it, never going back to a trad rig. Quieter gigs it can be used as a monitor or backline but louder gigs it’s fine as a monitor, you don’t need anything else imho.

All my gigs in the past have been with just a vocal PA, so my rig has always a had to be monitor and FOH. I dont think ive ever gigged with just a 1x12, other than the Fearless F112. This sounds very different to that though. 

I’ll probably never need to use it as a bass rig, but its nice to have something so transportable. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

Just doing my best to catch up on this thread. Sorry if I've missed anything now it's approximately seventy thirteen million posts long.

 

I'm now seriously considering going down the FRFR route for a lightweight rig. I'm sick of humping heavy cabs around. My guitarists plays through a 5W valve amp, so they're overkill in most situations anyway. 

 

Has anybody seen / tried the new Harley Benton 12 inch FRFR. It looks great, the reviews are good, and as always with HB the price is ridiculous. 

 

It should cover pretty much all situations for our band, we're fairly quiet, only play small bar type venues, and there's always the option of going through FOH for outdoor gigs. 

 

https://www.thomann.de/intl/harley_benton_frfr_112a_guitar_dsp_monitor.htm?i11l=en_GB%3ABG.EUR

[EBS_freak]

Just a word of warning on FRFR cabs - make sure they can handle bass! 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Just a word of warning on FRFR cabs - make sure they can handle bass! 

Also FRFR doesn’t necessarily mean lightweight IME. The F112 i had was one of the hardest cabs ive ever had to carry. 

[lemmywinks]

Would be interesting to see how that Harley Benton performs against budget mini cabs from Warwick and TC, also the Trace 110 and PJB Piranha / C2.

Edited August 6, 2021 by lemmywinks

[lemmywinks]

4 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Also FRFR doesn’t necessarily mean lightweight IME. The F112 i had was one of the hardest cabs ive ever had to carry. 

 

Yeah the QSC I have definitely feels heavier than one of the Markbass 112 cabs it replaced even if the spec sheet only says it's only 3kg difference. In terms of pure weight saving (rather than monitoring requirements or tone goals) a small lightweight cab might be better. Mad what we consider to be heavy regarding gig worthy equipment now though!

[Newfoundfreedom]

2 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Yeah the QSC I have definitely feels heavier than one of the Markbass 112 cabs it replaced even if the spec sheet only says it's only 3kg difference. In terms of pure weight saving (rather than monitoring requirements or tone goals) a small lightweight cab might be better. Mad what we consider to be heavy regarding gig worthy equipment now though!

Problem is, most lightweight cabs are prohibitively expensive, and/ or relatively low wattage. 

 

I've set my weight limit at 17kg, as that's the weight of our current PA speakers, which are just about manageable. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

11 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Would be interesting to see how that Harley Benton performs against budget mini cabs from Warwick and TC, also the Trace 100 and PJB Piranha / C2.

Yeah. 2 of the TC 2x8's are my other current option. 

 

I'm going backwards and forwards between them and the HB FRFR

[dave_bass5]

22 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Yeah the QSC I have definitely feels heavier than one of the Markbass 112 cabs it replaced even if the spec sheet only says it's only 3kg difference. In terms of pure weight saving (rather than monitoring requirements or tone goals) a small lightweight cab might be better. Mad what we consider to be heavy regarding gig worthy equipment now though!

I think handle placement also makes a big difference. I went from the F112 to the much larger CN212 and the larger cab was almost a pleasure to carry. Going up and down 3 floors each way with all the weight on the one handle was quite painful. 

I may be needed back on bass if i can’t find a replacement for the one that just left us, and although I’ve still got 3 nice heads I don’t have a cab. I’m hoping my Yamaha DBR12 will do the job but I’m still sceptical about this sort of Rig. I might have to get a proper cab. 

[jrixn1]

25 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I've set my weight limit at 17kg, as that's the weight of our current PA speakers, which are just about manageable. 

 

What are your current PA speakers, and is your bass going through FOH?  If so, it means you need only stage monitoring and for that you might be able to use equipment which is less good at reproducing low frequencies.  A high-pass filter can make its job easier too (perhaps one is available in DSP).

 

Also, can you use in-ears instead?  They are much lighter than any speaker cabinet!

[Frank Blank]

I had a QSC K12.2 which was a little heavy but fitted just right on a small sack barrow. Once you've played through a decent FRFR rig it's difficult to even imagine going back to a traditional amp/head setup. It was a game changer for me for sure.

[Newfoundfreedom]

12 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

What are your current PA speakers, and is your bass going through FOH?  If so, it means you need only stage monitoring and for that you might be able to use equipment which is less good at reproducing low frequencies.  A high-pass filter can make its job easier too (perhaps one is available in DSP).

 

Also, can you use in-ears instead?  They are much lighter than any speaker cabinet!

They're Behringer 15's. So far only used for vocals and Uke. 

I've never had a need to use them for bass as I've always had decent sized back line cabs. Although I've tested them and they run bass just fine for the volume we play. So either a couple of small cabs for back line / stage monitoring or a FRFR, then a DI into the PA would work fine for our purposes. 

 

Anything louder and our PA wouldn't take handle it anyway. We're not cut out for festivals with the gear we have. But it copes just fine with pub / garden BBQ type gigs. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Newfoundfreedom

[jrixn1]

31 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I think handle placement also makes a big difference. I went from the F112 to the much larger CN212 and the larger cab was almost a pleasure to carry. Going up and down 3 floors each way with all the weight on the one handle was quite painful. 

I may be needed back on bass if i can’t find a replacement for the one that just left us, and although I’ve still got 3 nice heads I don’t have a cab. I’m hoping my Yamaha DBR12 will do the job but I’m still sceptical about this sort of Rig. I might have to get a proper cab. 

 

It's asking a lot of the £360 Yamaha if your benchmark is a Fearless 112.  If you up the budget to a comparable £700-£800 (QSC K12.2, RCF 732A, RCF HD32) then it's a fairer fight!

[dave_bass5]

34 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I had a QSC K12.2 which was a little heavy but fitted just right on a small sack barrow. Once you've played through a decent FRFR rig it's difficult to even imagine going back to a traditional amp/head setup. It was a game changer for me for sure.

I don’t mind carrying my DBR. It’s not the

lightest of cabs but is more than manageable. 
My head tells me it would be fine with the Zoom B4 in front, it’s rated well above my

Heads and I’ve never needed to turn to hide up too loud,  but my guts tell me it’s not ideal for using as back line and FOH, even in a small pub. 

[dave_bass5]

14 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

It's asking a lot of the £360 Yamaha if your benchmark is a Fearless 112.  If you up the budget to a comparable £700-£800 (QSC K12.2, RCF 732A, RCF HD32) then it's a fairer fight!

Ah, but I never got on with the F112. I’d hate to actually go FRFR, but it’s an option. 
I love what a coloured cab does, although obviously it has to be the right colouring. 

At the moment i have no job or income, and might have 1 or 2 gigs before I get a job. You can see why I’m considering using what I have, unless it’s a more regular thing. 
I must admit I’m very, very tempted by the CN112 in the classifieds, but it’s way too

early to spend money, at least until I know I’ll need to. 

[dave_bass5]

Although we do also have a pair of dB 715’s I could use if we aren’t supplying the PA.