Interesting FRFR story..

[nottswarwick]

2 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

What is your current Markbass rig?  Assuming it's something like a CMD 121H (and not a pair of 8x10s etc!) - then the answer to your question is yes.

 

My RCF 732A replaced a Big Baby 2.  For QSC, look at the K12.2; for Yamaha, the DXR12 mkII.

current rig is Little Marcus 1000 and a Standard 210 8 ohm…used carefully so as to take care of the cab with this power 

[jrixn1]

Yes, any of the three I mentioned will happily take the place of your Markbass in terms of volume, tone, and reliability.

 

[jezzaboy]

5 hours ago, nottswarwick said:

Can I be permitted to ask a question which may have been answered in the previous 60 pages which I have skimmed only?

 

Summary - I recently tried a Headrush 12" cab, and concluded that it worked well for guitar, but for bass was lacking at gig volumes.  It felt "toy-like" and I was a little "on edge" with the volume as I felt like I might damage it with full on bass - certainly not anything I ever think with my Markbass rig.  Even with guitar, it was on volume 7 of 10 for gig volume. Certainly not feeling like 2000w peak, or 1000w continuous  - I suspect this has been covered and is a load of bobbins anyway...

 

However, it sounded great to be fair, and thus I don't wish to rule out the "one rig for guitar and bass duties" concept just yet.

 

I have used "better"  far more expensive cabs for PA duty (RCF 7 series, the more expensive Yamaha cabs etc) and these all seem better made - and indeed you do get what you pay for.

 

SO the question for the assembled masses is "will spending more than the £275 cost of the Headrush yield me a single active PA speaker cab that will easily handle guitar and bass, with pre-amp pedal boards, at gig volumes without fear of breaking them, while sounding good and being reliable".  And if so, which ones? 

 

Sorry that this will mean a little repetition here, the thread is huge.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

 

Blatant plug but I have a as new RCF 715 in the for sale section. 

[Greg Edwards69]

6 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

What is your current Markbass rig?  Assuming it's something like a CMD 121H (and not a pair of 8x10s etc!) - then the answer to your question is yes.

 

Yes, this is a key question. Personally I went from a single markbass 1x12 (121h traveller) cab (with a Carvin head and a Markbass LMII before that) and in terms of volume and low end, I find my headrush 112 performs similarly.

 

But it will perform very differently if you are used to anything bigger.

[lemmywinks]

I went from a pair of Markbass Club 112 cabs to a single QSC K10.2 and didn't struggle, the key for me was using it as a wedge monitor so I could hear myself properly. If the bass isn't going through the PA then it's a different story.

[Anatonic]

This thread is gold (and has taken a good few hours off my life, but worth it!)

 

Very long story short... seriously considering going the FRFR route... I'm predominantly playing bass these days, but still dabble with guitar now and again, with the wife getting fedup (as am I) of all the gear that sits in my pokey office / music room in the house.  I had the delight of playing with a couple of session musicians recently who are touring with ELO / RPJ Band and it really opened my eyes up to going this condensed / practical route - and along with this thread, I think I'm pretty much decided.  Originally I was a bit hesitant about selling my guitar amps / gear given my switch to bass, but going FRFR is going to give me the best of both worlds IMO.

 

So I got spoiled trying out a Quad Cortex - and apart from preferring it to the HX Stomp I previously tried, I've just got it in my head now that I can easily satisfy both sides of the coin - having one pedal unit that both my bass and guitars can run into, and straight out to a powered speaker like a K12.2 and to give me all the sounds I need, especially for cover bands etc.  I'm also running wireless for IEMs and instruments (either from the PA, or from the pedalboard depending on the gig and whether I'm needed on vocals) so I can really see this working well as a very compact, all-in-one, contained rig that serves both my main band as well as any times I need to rock up as a dep elsewhere and just slot in.

 

As it stands, it means I can potentially get rid of my old Marshall TSL, Fender Bassbreaker and the majority of my pedals on the guitar side, while moving on my Fender Rumble 800 (210 combo) + ext and putting that all towards a decent FRFR speaker and either a HX Stomp or potentially the QC.   Any QC owners that are rocking their bass through it?

 

I would say the majority of gigs I've done with the Rumble have no problem being backline without PA support, and so I don't foresee any issues in going this route - but has anyone gigged recently with something like a single K12.2 and found it lacking if not going through the PA for support for FOH?  My guess is that around 60% of gigs I do now are usually with significant PA support (i.e. rig is hired in and run by an engineer) with 40% being traditionally smaller gigs where a smaller PA (tops only) is used for vocals / keys.

 

P.S. I'm drooling @danweb22 setup on the previous page... Looks immaculate! Haha

[Frank Blank]

7 minutes ago, Anatonic said:

This thread is gold (and has taken a good few hours off my life, but worth it!)...

 

I have gigged with the QRC K12.2 both with and without PA support. My Setup was essentially bass > HX Stomp > QSC and a line out the back of the QSC to the desk. In this case I would have the QSC in front of me in the trad monitor position. Without PA support I'd use the same setup but have the QSC behind me as backline. I never found it wanting in any gig situation, which were mostly like the ones you describe.

 

I also made the change to FRFR after reading this thread and it's the best decision bass-wise I've made in 40 years of playing. I would never return to an amp/cab setup.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Frank Blank

[BigRedX]

I've said it a couple of times in this thread, but it's probably worth repeating now that my contributions are pages and pages back in history.

 

I too was inspired by the earlier posts to investigate the FRFR route, especially since almost every single gig I have done in the last 20 years have had the PA as the main FOH source for the bass, and also since I played a number of gigs where I was asked to turn down on stage in order to prevent my rig from interfering with the FOH sound, to the point where I could hear myself louder in the wedge supplied for the guitarist on the other side of the stage then I could from my cabs immediately behind me.

 

I went all out and bought a Helix Floor and RCF745 speaker and I haven't looked back. It may seen expensive to some, but the bass rig it replaced had cost me more than I paid for these new, and that had all been bought second hand! Also after selling all the gear the Helix and RCF had replaced I actually came away with a small profit!

 

As well as bass guitar I also play Bass VI and synth in another band so being able to use a single two-component rig for processing and monitoring cuts down massively on the amount of gear I need to take to gigs and consequently set up and sound-checking time. It also makes life much easier for the PA engineer.

 

I can't ever seen myself going back to a traditional rig.

[Jack]

5 hours ago, Anatonic said:

...has anyone gigged recently with something like a single K12.2 and found it lacking if not going through the PA for support for FOH? ...

Not me! We usually bring our PA, so we usually have good PA support, but I have done some gigs where the K12.2 is backline-that-fills-the-room and it works great.

 

5 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

 

I have gigged with the QRC K12.2 both with and without PA support. My Setup was essentially bass > HX Stomp > QSC and a line out the back of the QSC to the desk. In this case I would have the QSC in front of me in the trad monitor position. Without PA support I'd use the same setup but have the QSC behind me as backline. I never found it wanting in any gig situation, which were mostly like the ones you describe.

This is exactly my situation and also exactly my thoughts.

 

I'm no evangelist and I'd go back to a trad setup in a heartbeat if/when it's the right route for me, but at the moment it just isn't. The Handbox/Barefaced rig in the classifieds is calling though. Not a replacement, just as an option...

Edited September 2, 2021 by Jack

[Owen]

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Also after selling all the gear the Helix and RCF had replaced I actually came away with a small profit!

That is my favourite thing!

[Greg Edwards69]

21 hours ago, Anatonic said:

I would say the majority of gigs I've done with the Rumble have no problem being backline without PA support, and so I don't foresee any issues in going this route - but has anyone gigged recently with something like a single K12.2 and found it lacking if not going through the PA for support for FOH?  My guess is that around 60% of gigs I do now are usually with significant PA support (i.e. rig is hired in and run by an engineer) with 40% being traditionally smaller gigs where a smaller PA (tops only) is used for vocals / keys.

I've said it before, but as long as your expectations fall within the realms of reality, you'll be fine. If you're used to using a 1x12 or 2x10 combo without pa support, a high powered 1x12 frfr will perform similarly. I've used my headrush 112 without PA in an average pub without PA support and it was fine.

 

20 hours ago, Jack said:

 

I'm no evangelist and I'd go back to a trad setup in a heartbeat if/when it's the right route for me, but at the moment it just isn't. The Handbox/Barefaced rig in the classifieds is calling though. Not a replacement, just as an option...

 

Same here.  I sometimes wish I was the sort of bassist who is happy with just a P bass > cable > amp. It would be a lot easier.  But I'm not that person.

[dave_bass5]

57 minutes ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

 

 

Same here.  I sometimes wish I was the sort of bassist who is happy with just a P bass > cable > amp. It would be a lot easier.  But I'm not that person.

The bassist in my other band is like that. He doesn't even touch the EQ on the amp. Very strange seeing him set up in under a min when we rehearse.

[gafbass02]

My current setup, I’m really pleased with it, even coming from Bergantino. 

[Chezz55]

An interesting thread with a lot of information, maybe something to consider in the future. 

 

So this is probably a daft question,  but are the enclosures (RCF. HeadRush, QSC etc) mentioned in many of the preceding posts intended  primarily for PA use?  Or are they really 'all things to all men' ?

 

Chris

 

 

[Anatonic]

On 03/09/2021 at 16:47, gafbass02 said:

My current setup, I’m really pleased with it, even coming from Bergantino. 

Super neat and like has already been said, I like this idea of throwing the speaker as a monitor wedge in front of you if predominately going through the PA - looks great! (Two looks even better 😉)

[Jack]

3 hours ago, Chezz55 said:

An interesting thread with a lot of information, maybe something to consider in the future. 

 

So this is probably a daft question,  but are the enclosures (RCF. HeadRush, QSC etc) mentioned in many of the preceding posts intended  primarily for PA use?  Or are they really 'all things to all men' ?

 

Chris

 

 

Most of them are primarily just PA cabs yes. Some are meant for guitar (like the Laney) and some are PA cabs with extra features for instrument use (QSC). But yeah, they're PA cabs.

[jrixn1]

25 minutes ago, Anatonic said:

Super neat and like has already been said, I like this idea of throwing the speaker as a monitor wedge in front of you if predominately going through the PA - looks great! (Two looks even better 😉)

 

Two?  I can see three.  Why do you need three?

[gafbass02]

2 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

Two?  I can see three.  Why do you need three?

The middle one was the house monitor on that side. I just left it there and set up around it. This is how they are sat now waiting for tonight’s show. 

[jrixn1]

24 minutes ago, gafbass02 said:

The middle one was the house monitor on that side. I just left it there and set up around it. This is how they are sat now waiting for tonight’s show.

 

How do two sound compared to one? It's something I've thought about, although I probably wouldn't have the space for two 12s in my band.  Is it just to increase the overall volume available, or does it sound better/fuller/different having two?  Neat setup anyway!

[gafbass02]

4 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

How do two sound compared to one? It's something I've thought about, although I probably wouldn't have the space for two 12s in my band.  Is it just to increase the overall volume available, or does it sound better/fuller/different having two?  Neat setup anyway!

Thanks. It sounds epic!! Not been out with one yet, but I wouldn’t think twice about it tbh. 

[Jack]

We played a new venue for us last night and, knowing that the stage was really big, I took both QSCs with the intent of shamelessly recreating @danweb22's setup.

 

However, the stage wasn't so much big as it was just really wide, this meant that I couldn't really hear my vocal in the singer's monitor the way I normally do. I was tempted to have two monitors but decided to get creative and have a monitor plus a backline. 

 

30 second's work to rearrange some cables and cue up an extra mix on a spare aux. It's crazy the options that digital mixers and rigs like this can give. Please excuse the mess. The backline was yet to be tidied and the frontline was behind a wall... 

[Anatonic]

On 04/09/2021 at 21:57, Jack said:

We played a new venue for us last night and, knowing that the stage was really big, I took both QSCs with the intent of shamelessly recreating @danweb22's setup.

 

However, the stage wasn't so much big as it was just really wide, this meant that I couldn't really hear my vocal in the singer's monitor the way I normally do. I was tempted to have two monitors but decided to get creative and have a monitor plus a backline. 

 

30 second's work to rearrange some cables and cue up an extra mix on a spare aux. It's crazy the options that digital mixers and rigs like this can give. Please excuse the mess. The backline was yet to be tidied and the frontline was behind a wall... 

That looks awesome and agreed on the digital front… we run an XR18 and it’s so nice to be able to just throw in an extra mix on an aux if needed.

 

P.S. love your tidy setup + the wireless - how do you find the Shure unit? I’m tempted to upgrade from my old Line6 G75 unit

[Jack]

On 06/09/2021 at 22:52, Anatonic said:

That looks awesome and agreed on the digital front… we run an XR18 and it’s so nice to be able to just throw in an extra mix on an aux if needed.

 

P.S. love your tidy setup + the wireless - how do you find the Shure unit? I’m tempted to upgrade from my old Line6 G75 unit

Thanks man, it's the latest in a years long journey of recreating a pa and rig minimalism!

 

I've not had the G75 but I have had the G30 and G55 as well as this Shure. All were excellent in terms of performance, though I do like the form factor of the Shure with the tuner and low profile antennae. 

 

[StickyDBRmf]

OK so I've read most of these bazillion pgs. I'm interested in cutting thru jamming with a drummer & guitar (how can they be so LOUD w/ a 20W amp?) playing a QSC 12.2 will it CUT IT?

[Greg Edwards69]

On 15/09/2021 at 20:53, StickyDBRmf said:

OK so I've read most of these bazillion pgs. I'm interested in cutting thru jamming with a drummer & guitar (how can they be so LOUD w/ a 20W amp?) playing a QSC 12.2 will it CUT IT?

 

If you can cut hold your own with a 1x12 bass cab and 500w amp, the QSC will perform similarly.

It does depend somewhat on what the guitarist is using however.  A single speaker bass amp will always struggle up against a large guitar cab with multiple speakers no matter how many watts each of you have. If they are using a single speaker combo then it should be no problem at all.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Greg Edwards69