davie504 and other awful clickbait horror

[project_c]

1 hour ago, Meddle said:

What are you doing with your music? Who are you reaching out to? Are you happy and fulfilled as a musician? What do you have to say?

As for the rest of your diatribe, watch any video of a band from the '60s and tell me that there wasn't any sort of 'look at me douche baggery' going on. Do it! Find me videos of the Rolling Stones in 1965 where Jagger isn't doing that awkward gauche dance routine along to a pilfered Chuck Berry song. Brian Jones was the only purist in that band, and look what it did to him! The rest were about getting girls. Bill Wyman's diary from the '60s, as subsequently published as an astonishingly dull book, is simply a point-to-point record of him getting girls. Why did the singer from the Yardbirds wear shades indoors, or why did the rest of them wear silk shirts with those ridiculous puffy sleeves? 

And when Jimmy Page broke out a violin bow, Jimi hendrix broke out the lighter fluid or Pete Townshend broke up a guitar... all 100% artistic integrity, and in no way attention-seeking antics on a global scale, right? 

Ah, but that was the good old days where you were payed two bob a week and all of this was still fields... 

You have to simply accept that in some capacity you are a bit bitter and probably musically obsolete. The world you recognised as comfortably familiar has been subtly changing and evolving while you were distracted. Just accept it and move on and, if nothing else, remember how much you pay for Youtube. 

Ok. Let's go through this bit by bit, because you're in danger of out-ranting my rant, and we don't want that.

"What are you doing with your music? Who are you reaching out to? Are you happy and fulfilled as a musician? What do you have to say?"

a. I don't have to justify that to you, but b. I'm playing music I love with a gigging band in central London, which is perfect for me. c. Yes I'm 100% happy and fulfilled as a musician, but I'll add that I'm not reliant on music for an income.

"watch any video of a band from the '60s and tell me that there wasn't any sort of 'look at me douche baggery' going on"

Sure, there was douchebaggery going on, music is performance art, it's unavoidable. There was douchebaggery in every genre, but there was also integrity and musical talent which balanced it out. I wasn't alive in the 60s, but the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's were also full of successful musicians who were not OCD idiots poncing around for attention. In the 90's, you could pay a mortgage and feed a family if you ran a small independent record label. Now the ONLY way to make money from music is to be a massive arsehole on YouTube. And you think that's ok.

"You have to simply accept that in some capacity you are a bit bitter and probably musically obsolete etc blah blah."

I'm 44, how old are you? I have zero bitterness about my own musical achievements, if anything I'm doing better than I thought I would when I first started playing bass. But I do have a thing inside my skull which is called a brain, which allows me to have a critical opinion about things. And you're allowed to do that regardless of age - in fact it could be argued that age and experience gives you a certain amount of authority to speak your mind, because you're potentially more culturally informed than some 17 year old Ibanez-rattling doofus. 

(Also by the way I hate Motorhead and anything to do with metal, I also hate pretty much 99% of the popular rock music of the 60's, so I have zero nostalgia for any of that).

Anyway I'm off to the boozer, but happy to continue this discussion later.

[project_c]

9 hours ago, Meddle said:

How does that work? You could run a small independent record label online and probably save money, and reach a broader audience. My band plays psychedelic rock and we're reaching folk in the US, Europe, South America... could we have done that in the '90s? Could a record label for that matter? There are small labels all over the place interested in small bands all over the place; we aren't as directly linked to our geographical location. 

 

If we keep going with your '90s record label owner analogy, In the '70s you could graduate university without any debt (you could make money if you were cunning with your bursary), go become a teacher, get married, start a family and get a mortgage on a nice 2-bed house in a nice part of town. All on an entry-level teaching salary. Your wife wouldn't even have to work! Try doing any of that now!

It isn't the fault of Youtube musical sensations that it is harder to provide for a family and keep paying off the mortgage... Davie 504 isn't the reason that my teacher buddy has to spend 2/3 of their entry-level teacher income on rent, is barely able to save for a deposit and has a huge student loan to chip away at. 

And as for Youtube being the only way to make money from music, this is a beyond-blinkered opinion. Both my brothers earn their income by being musicians. One is a full time classical violinist! Okay so in the real world he might have to play the Titanic theme tune at a wedding once in a while to keep him in gnocchi, but his line of work isn't directly threatened by Youtube artists. I personally believe that Davie 504, the Japanese dude that dresses like wee girls, and those of their ilk are maybe squandering their talents, but for all I know they are "serious" musicians as well, or maybe just a weekend warrior like you or I.

 

Integrity? Like Bill Wyman shacking up with a 13 year old girl, Jimmy Page abducting a 14 year old girl to keep as a personal groupie, all those bands basically being run by low-level mobsters like Don Arden, or a bunch of spotty artschool kids from the outer suburbs of London singing about growing up in the delta? Bands that were too smacked up to play coherently onstage (Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin stick out here).

It is far too easy, and comfortable, to cherry-pick some random artists from the '60s, '70s, '80s and then lazily argue that things were better back then. Look at the Hit Parade or whatever from the '70s and it wasn't the bands with integrity that were selling signals. 

I'm 28. I'm too old to ever be a successful bassist. I don't feel like I'm 'losing out' and I don't feel like these Youtube guys have either stolen my gig or stolen the rug from out under my feet. They do what they do, probably knowing full well that old flips on Internet forums (which themselves are becoming an anachronism against the immediacy of social media, and which tend to have an older demographic of users) don't like what they are doing. If you were alive in the '50s your parents probably didn't like what Elvis was up to either... it can be bewildering to see what younger generations are into and up to, yet artists that have truly retained their integrity (Peter Gabriel, David Bowie and Neil Young spring to mind) have simply tried to see the merit in these advances and moved on with it. Bowie's embrace of more industrial-sounding music is probably nobody's favorite era of his recorded output, but he didn't simply log onto a Chat Forum and start bad-mouthing Ministry or NIN.

You clearly perceive the '17 year old Ibanez-rattling doofus' as some sort of threat otherwise you wouldn't perpetually refer to them using pejoratives. And why pick on Ibanez? You are describing a fairly abstract phenomenon, young bassists on Youtube, as some sort of threat to music itself. How is this not born out of some sort of frustration or inadequacy on your part? There are people posting all sorts of videos on Youtube that I could hunt down and find upsetting, but actually committing my time and resources to watching them then whining about them online doesn't really appeal. 

The phrase "critical opinions" suggests that some sort of analysis or subjective evaluation has taken place on your part, and that you are then going to provide evidence to support your argument. Beyond your fairly spurious analogy about rich '90s label owners, I'm not seeing much critical analysis taking place. Beyond that, age is just a number and doesn't automatically give you authority; this is the 'wisdom of the ancients' fallacy. 

 

So as a 28 year old, you actually have zero actual personal experience of how music and culture worked in the pre-internet era, and have even less of a clue about subculture / diy culture etc, you're just here to defend YouTube dicks.

I'm older, but I'm not gonna sh!t my pants about getting called old, just because I question the validity of something contemporary. I think these party trick clowns are twats, and they reflect the general twattishness of this era.

For the record I spend half my life amongst people in their 20s because I teach at an art colllege, so I know there are good things going on culturally, but I also know that these YouTube chumps are no reflection of that. I am pointing out that they are dicks, because they are dicks. And believe it or not, lots of 22 year olds also think they're dicks.

Just try to look at it like this: music as a form of culture used to be interesting and important (to me anyway), because it was weird, and angry, and rebellious, and creative, and progressive. And, more importantly, many of those weird, angry, rebellious people became successful, often through subculture and without the help of any mainstream involvement. And in comparison to that, I see this kind of arsehole show off behavior as incredibly lame and laughable and 100% disconnected with what I think of as actual music. That's all it comes down to really.

(ps I have nothing against Ibanez, I just think "37 string Ibanez fretless djent slap shred" is funny)

 

 

[project_c]

ps. one more thing re the independent record labels of the 90s: the point was that you could do interesting things musically and live comfortably off of that. 

Reaching a global audience through the internet is great, but if you still have to stack shelves in Matalan to pay the rent on your damp basement flat in Slough, it's ultimately meaningless. Here's a recent article about how most current mid- and high-level bands having to rely on day jobs to survive:

https://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/article/6x8qv3/our-favourite-bands-and-their-day-jobs

[Sibob]

12 hours ago, project_c said:

Now the ONLY way to make money from music is to be a massive arsehole on YouTube. And you think that's ok.

 

This is fundamentally untrue on a number of levels (and I think you probably know that).

The only time this might apply, is if you consider it in the context of the music industry prior to the internet (why would anyone do that, it's silly), or whilst having an incredibly blinkered/narrow view of YouTube contributors......and indeed the number of very talented artists today who very much earn a  healthy living.

Richard Bona recently did an interview where he admitted that he made $2million dollars in publishing since leaving his recording/publishing company (the old system)....go figure huh.

Si

[SpondonBassed]

It's good 'ere innit?

[Bridgehouse]

Like most things, the internet as a medium for making money is still in its infancy. By now, it's a screaming toddler in the troublesome twos.

There is still a high risk profile for anyone wanting to invest and the returns can be great, but there isn't an accepted norm yet. 

Just like most shifts in medium it is a process to get to a point where it's got some ground rules and some universal acceptance. 

Its sort of no different to when the talkies came in with cinema, when radio became universally popular, and then when TV took over from radio. 

"Digital music will kill the business" - well, it will change it, but kill it? No. 

In my view, once the really smart business heads get their brains around it, a method for fully exploiting the new way will come to prominence. Regardless of how this happens, an investment won't work without the talent - the really savvy investors know this, and will want to look after their investment. How do you do this? You make sure your investment has enough of a return to not go elsewhere. 

 

[BassBus]

I think these steam engines on’t railways are dreadful things. It were far better when we just had horse and cart. Life were just so much better.

Edited November 26, 2017 by BassBus

[Mastodon2]

I don't mind davie504 too much, I can't really say I enjoy his videos at all and they have virtually no musical value, but he is easy to ignore and if he gets a few kids interested in bass then that's a good thing I suppose. He technically isn't clickbait either as you know what you're getting.

 

On the other hand, I find it particularly distasteful to see stuff like "Three reasons why six string basses SUCK!!!" and then trying to get people to hand over money for "lesson" on how to get gigs or "slap workout" rubbish.

[EssentialTension]

On 19/11/2017 at 15:19, project_c said:

... So much music that was popular in the past wouldn't stand a chance in these ponce-infested times. 

Not even Liberace?

[project_c]

59 minutes ago, EssentialTension said:

Not even Liberace?

He would be fine. He is basically Kanye West.

[project_c]

4 hours ago, BassBus said:

I think these steam engines on’t railways are dreadful things. It were far better when we just had horse and cart. Life were just so much better.

I would respond to this but my arthritic legs won't let me get out of this mobility scooter to wave my walking stick at you. Also my colostomy bag has just burst and I can't remember where I live.

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, project_c said:

Also my colostomy bag has just burst and I can't remember where I live.

Are those two bits linked?

[EssentialTension]

1 hour ago, EssentialTension said:

Not even Liberace?

 

27 minutes ago, project_c said:

He would be fine. He is basically Kanye West.

 

Except LIberace could actually play the piano.

[SpondonBassed]

Far as I can see the lad is only guilty of having a cartoon face.  All you lot are just jealous of his youth, exuberance and seemingly unlimited access to novel gear.

[BassBus]

1 hour ago, project_c said:

I would respond to this but my arthritic legs won't let me get out of this mobility scooter to wave my walking stick at you. Also my colostomy bag has just burst and I can't remember where I live.

[EssentialTension]

9 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

Far as I can see the lad is only guilty of having a cartoon face.  All you lot are just jealous of his youth, exuberance and seemingly unlimited access to novel gear.

I'm not at all jealous because I have no idea who he is.

[arthurhenry]

7 hours ago, project_c said:

Here's a recent article about how most current mid- and high-level bands having to rely on day jobs to survive:

https://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/article/6x8qv3/our-favourite-bands-and-their-day-jobs

Of course if they promoted videos of their songs with titles such as "Best song ever, all other bands SUCK", or "WTF is this drummer doing?!" They could make a full time living from Youtube.

[fretmeister]

His signature bass is a nice take on the stingray 

[nilebodgers]

6 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

His signature bass is a nice take on the stingray 

Yes, I thought that looked really nice too. Streets ahead of the other Chowny basses in style.

[Chris2112]

I had noticed this trend of late. I just find it all rather naff. It's something of a self-perpetuating nightmare; an algorithim decides clickbait titles are good, so statistics provided to content creators encourage them to use clickbait titles, which produces verification for the algorithm that clickbait titles are great. 

 

This is all part of a wider issue of dumbing down. I've mentioned Scott's Bass Lessons before because the decline in quality is most evident there. The videos were usually of good quality with something to say but these days, they're mostly clickbait rubbish, like 'six string basses SUCK and here's why' before saying that they don't really suck. This also speaks to a wider problem with bass education in that it's become so focused on everything but music. 'Here's how to get gigs', 'how to groove', 'two notes that will change EVERYTHING', 'three secrets that will teach you EVERYTHING about walking basslines'. The exponential growth of this rubbish indicates that many bassists will happily consume any amount of dubious material before undertaking proper music based study.

 

[DJpullchord]

If you don’t like what the inter web offers, turn it off.

[Sibob]

4 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

I had noticed this trend of late. I just find it all rather naff. It's something of a self-perpetuating nightmare; an algorithim decides clickbait titles are good, so statistics provided to content creators encourage them to use clickbait titles, which produces verification for the algorithm that clickbait titles are great. 

 

This is all part of a wider issue of dumbing down. I've mentioned Scott's Bass Lessons before because the decline in quality is most evident there. The videos were usually of good quality with something to say but these days, they're mostly clickbait rubbish, like 'six string basses SUCK and here's why' before saying that they don't really suck. This also speaks to a wider problem with bass education in that it's become so focused on everything but music. 'Here's how to get gigs', 'how to groove', 'two notes that will change EVERYTHING', 'three secrets that will teach you EVERYTHING about walking basslines'. The exponential growth of this rubbish indicates that many bassists will happily consume any amount of dubious material before undertaking proper music based study.

 

It's a shame that people judge Scott for his free & 'fun' YouTube content, and not the actual educational content within SBL, which on the most-part, is excellent. What he's created there is very cool!

Si

[project_c]

1 hour ago, Meddle said:

...and then times changed and you didn't change with them. That is all your little diatribe ultimately boils down to. You can't help but inject your writing with pervasively bitter language which, to me, make you appear bitter in turn. You've also not really got past the "things were better in my day" trope. If absolutely nothing else, view these Youtube performers as being the equivalent of The Monkees, The Baycity Rollers or whatever. A shaky comparison, granted, but most consider these artists to be 1) wildly entertaining and 2) not the best the era has to offer, while 3) detractors will simply call them formulaic and attention-grabbing. 

 

Massive props to @Chownybassfor having the foresight to offer Davie 504 a signature bass, by the way. 

Just because I'm angry doesn't mean I'm angry because I happen to be older than you, that's just an overly simple and p!ss weak answer to this that obviously makes you feel better, but in turn I could turn around and say that everything you've said about this subject comes across as naive and misguided. 

People will love or hate any number of things regardless of age. If it sounds like a diatribe to you, i'm ok with that, I have no desire to persuade you otherwise. You carry on enjoying that thought, I'll carry on thinking these people are chumps. Next time you sit down to play your psychedelic progressive whatever, have a think about where that music actually came from, and whether any of the people that wrote your favourite music would even stand a chance to get heard today. 

I cant believe we squeezed so much out of this thread to be honest, it was only meant to be a mini rant.

Edited November 27, 2017 by project_c

[SpondonBassed]

8 hours ago, project_c said:

...I cant believe we squeezed so much out of this thread to be honest, it was only meant to be a mini rant.

 

It's like you meant to let out a lickle gufflet but followed through in spectacular fashion.  I bet you feel pounds lighter now.

[project_c]

2 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

 

It's like you meant to let out a lickle gufflet but followed through in spectacular fashion.  I bet you feel pounds lighter now.

   yeah sort of, although I was thinking more up the other end, like a small burp which unexpectedly triggers a belching gastric puke.