No real love for Jaco

[neilp]

On ‎23‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 14:17, krismpos said:

This. Art is not supposed to be pretty every single time. 

No, but if it doesn't appeal to you, or touch you in some way it doesn't make you a bad person. I understand Jaco's talent, skill and influence. I just don't enjoy what he did with it.

[krismpos]

3 minutes ago, neilp said:

No, but if it doesn't appeal to you, or touch you in some way it doesn't make you a bad person. I understand Jaco's talent, skill and influence. I just don't enjoy what he did with it.

Absolutely fine by me

[Barking Spiders]

As I've said I dont't like the jazz fusion he played but I love the classic sound of the fretless bass and for that he must take much of the credit

Edited November 28, 2017 by Barking Spiders

[ezbass]

I’m not a Jaco fan directly, most of what he played leaves me cold, although the Joni Mitchell stuff was ok, but even there I prefer to hear her with Larry Klein. However, I’m a huge Pino fan, especially his fretless playing, and Norman Watt Roy, both of whom name check JP, so I can’t dismiss what he did.

[Frank Blank]

4 hours ago, ezbass said:

I’m not a Jaco fan directly, most of what he played leaves me cold, although the Joni Mitchell stuff was ok, but even there I prefer to hear her with Larry Klein. However, I’m a huge Pino fan, especially his fretless playing, and Norman Watt Roy, both of whom name check JP, so I can’t dismiss what he did.

Norman Watt Roy - what a dude.

[Bluewine]

I've never listened to John Coltrane, but I watched the Documentary on Netflix.

I'm sold that he was brilliant and a very special man.

Blue

[dyerseve]

cant stand any of his stuff. Ive often heard it said that if you dont like Jaco it's because you know nothing about music. Well my counter to that would be that if you need a degree in music theory to be able to appreciate a musician then said musician isnt doing their job properly. if they cant allow you to connect with their art then why bother. Music should make you feel something other than confused or lost

Give me Marcus Miller any day over Jaco.

[dmccombe7]

Oddly enough i kinda feel that Marcus Miller has done his bit for bass like Jaco and has now been overtaken by some of the new players doing the rounds.

Few years back when these guys were at their peak they were by far some of the best bass players out there but as time moves on and styles and techniques advance i find Jaco and Marcus sound a little out dated.

To be fair i haven't listened to a lot of Marcus Miller material and usually only when i see him play at bass conventions more than anything else.

Two different styles too. Jaco is more Jazz based whereas Marcus is more funk slap and pop too me.

At the end of the day both have done their bit for bass thru the years but neither are my favoured style of music. Nice to try and play what they do tho.

Dave

[Bluewine]

22 hours ago, dyerseve said:

Give me Marcus Miller any day over Jaco.

If there was no Jaco there would be no Marcus Miller.

Blue

[Bluewine]

22 hours ago, dyerseve said:

cant stand any of his stuff. 

Fair enough.

But people are going to be talking about Jaco forever.

Blue

[dyerseve]

40 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Fair enough.

But people are going to be talking about Jaco forever.

Blue

People will talk about Hitler forever too...

[dyerseve]

43 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

If there was no Jaco there would be no Marcus Miller.

Blue

Of course there would. Im not saying some of Marcus's sound isnt influenced by Jaco or that he wasnt inspire by Jaco but your staement is incredibly presumptive. You could contest how succesful Marcus Miller would be in the absence of Jaco or whether he would even have picked up the bass. However Marcus would definitely still have existed unless of course he was conceived to a Weather Report track lol.

Btw, if Jaco wasnt around, someone else could easily have stepped up to the plate to fill his shoes....

[dyerseve]

22 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Oddly enough i kinda feel that Marcus Miller has done his bit for bass like Jaco and has now been overtaken by some of the new players doing the rounds.

Few years back when these guys were at their peak they were by far some of the best bass players out there but as time moves on and styles and techniques advance i find Jaco and Marcus sound a little out dated.

To be fair i haven't listened to a lot of Marcus Miller material and usually only when i see him play at bass conventions more than anything else.

Two different styles too. Jaco is more Jazz based whereas Marcus is more funk slap and pop too me.

At the end of the day both have done their bit for bass thru the years but neither are my favoured style of music. Nice to try and play what they do tho.

Dave

Hmm thats interesting. For me Marcus is very much a jazz player, just much more jazz-fusion and less extreme jazz than Jaco. Marcus is also incredibly diverse in who he has played for and the styles he plays but his last two albums have been very much jazz orientated with "world music" fused in for good measure. I find Marcus stays relevant by the players he surrounds himself with on the album and on tour and having had the delight of seeing him in concert you can see that he is content to let these players shine whilst he supports them. He doesnt do much slap at all on his recent albums.

but thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth...

[Bluewine]

6 hours ago, dyerseve said:

Btw, if Jaco wasnt around, someone else could easily have stepped up to the plate to fill his shoes....

But he was around and I'm sticking with ;

"No Jaco, no Marcus"

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

6 hours ago, dyerseve said:

People will talk about Hitler forever too...

IMO, problem the worse comparison I've ever seen on BC.

Daryl

[dmccombe7]

8 hours ago, dyerseve said:

Hmm thats interesting. For me Marcus is very much a jazz player, just much more jazz-fusion and less extreme jazz than Jaco. Marcus is also incredibly diverse in who he has played for and the styles he plays but his last two albums have been very much jazz orientated with "world music" fused in for good measure. I find Marcus stays relevant by the players he surrounds himself with on the album and on tour and having had the delight of seeing him in concert you can see that he is content to let these players shine whilst he supports them. He doesnt do much slap at all on his recent albums.

but thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth...

 

Think i'll give his albums a decent listen and see if my opinions are changed. Can you suggest any particular album that you think he excels on. ?

Dave

[dyerseve]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

 

Think i'll give his albums a decent listen and see if my opinions are changed. Can you suggest any particular album that you think he excels on. ?

Dave

Sure thing Dave. Try his recent album Renaissance 

[dmccombe7]

10 hours ago, dyerseve said:

Sure thing Dave. Try his recent album Renaissance 

Just had a listen and its not what i was really expecting. Its not out and out slap and very jazz / funk. I'm really quite liking his style on that album altho not sure i would buy it as its more for bassists. I prefer to hear bass players in a more traditional band role. I came across a guy called Sandin Wilson who plays for Gino Vannelli and hass his own solo album. Its quite similar to Marcus Miller style. His influences were mainly Jimmy Haslip also ex-Vannelli band. Rather than hijack this thread i'll put on another new post.

I also wouldn't buy a Jaco album for same reasons but maybe an album he has contributed to like Joni Mitchell album.

Thanks for that

Dave

[mikel]

I have to say he was an extraordinary player, but if he wanted to play lead why not just get a guitar? For me that is what he did, a lot of the time.

[MarkG3]

I have to agree with you. When I've said something similar on another bass forum years ago and I got destroyed and told along the lines that I didn't appreciate music and that I should go away and 'learn'

Edited December 8, 2017 by MarkG3

[dyerseve]

On 06/12/2017 at 19:20, Bluewine said:

But he was around and I'm sticking with ;

"No Jaco, no Marcus"

 

Blue

based on what exactly?

[drTStingray]

The thing with Jaco is if you don't like jazz and R and B, you're unlikely to like his music. I think it's great - always have done - but there were plenty of other jazz influenced R and B players around at the time, and plenty of jazz upright players doing something similar - I always though Nils Henning--Pedersen, who played with Oscar Peterson, was absolutely a stand out player.

I have taken the time and trouble to learn a number of Jaco's bass parts - some are pretty challenging - it has helped my overall playing and understanding of music greatly. However I am heavily slanted towards an R and B/ funk influence - jazz, rock, rock and roll and other genres influence me but not as much. There is no doubt Jaco was a superb bass player and musician whether you like him or not.

Marcus Miller was a session player on R and B pop records (eg Somebody Else's Guy - Jocelyn Brown) - I first came across him knowingly (as opposed to having heard him on records not realising it was him) in Miles Davis's band in the early 80s - where he came across as a funk/R and B player with jazz influences - another fine player with totally his own style and musician-wise, way beyond just a bass player. 

I don't have a problem with people not liking Jaco - I suspect if you dislike jazz it's likely you won't like Jaco - similarly I dislike a lot of Paul Weller and Morrisey which is probably anathema to many people - just personal taste I guess. 

 

[Ceebass]

On 07/12/2017 at 14:43, mikel said:

I have to say he was an extraordinary player, but if he wanted to play lead why not just get a guitar? For me that is what he did, a lot of the time.

I am absolutely in favour of 'like the music you like', but I really don't get this! Why shouldn't a player utilise the full scope of their instrument if it serves to realise their musical/compositional/expressive goals? 

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, dyerseve said:

based on what exactly?

It's just the way it works.

For example, no Sly& The Family Stone, then no EW&F, no Ohio Players, No Graham Central Station.

Blue

[louisthebass]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

The thing with Jaco is if you don't like jazz and R and B, you're unlikely to like his music. I think it's great - always have done - but there were plenty of other jazz influenced R and B players around at the time, and plenty of jazz upright players doing something similar - I always though Nils Henning--Pedersen, who played with Oscar Peterson, was absolutely a stand out player.

I have taken the time and trouble to learn a number of Jaco's bass parts - some are pretty challenging - it has helped my overall playing and understanding of music greatly. However I am heavily slanted towards an R and B/ funk influence - jazz, rock, rock and roll and other genres influence me but not as much. There is no doubt Jaco was a superb bass player and musician whether you like him or not.

Marcus Miller was a session player on R and B pop records (eg Somebody Else's Guy - Jocelyn Brown) - I first came across him knowingly (as opposed to having heard him on records not realising it was him) in Miles Davis's band in the early 80s - where he came across as a funk/R and B player with jazz influences - another fine player with totally his own style and musician-wise, way beyond just a bass player. 

I don't have a problem with people not liking Jaco - I suspect if you dislike jazz it's likely you won't like Jaco - similarly I dislike a lot of Paul Weller and Morrisey which is probably anathema to many people - just personal taste I guess. 

 

Agreed. JP will always divide opinion on BC - this is a topic which has cropped up a few times in my time on here, and probably will again at some point.

He was an innovative player for his time, and he continues to influence some bass players to this day. Would someone else have taken his mantle if he hadn't been around? Stanley Clarke was coming to the fore around the same time so if Jaco had never existed, I suspect we would be talking about Stanley Clarke instead.

A lot of electric players have moved the needle on from Jaco & Stanley's era - Alain Caron, Tom Kennedy, John Patitucci, Jeff Andrews, Marcus Miller, and Anthony Jackson to name a few, but some of those mentioned were influenced in some part by JP & SC.