No real love for Jaco

[The Jaywalker]

On 20/11/2017 at 13:09, thebigyin said:

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Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[The Jaywalker]

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Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[Rich]

I expect most of us have got a 'Jaco', i.e. somebody whose popularity/reveredness we just do not get. Yours (OP) is Jaco, Spiders' is fusion as a whole, mine is Les Claypool. Oliver's language analogy was spot on; you don't speak Jaco and I don't know a word of Claypool. Doesn't make it crap, it just means that we don't get anything from listening to it.

[fleabag]

I wish i had 10% of his talent, but i'm not that into his muisc. Well apart from the monstrously brillaint work on Mitchell's  Hejira

[SubsonicSimpleton]

5 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Jaco pushed the envelope. A lot of what he did had precedents but he just took it all further. Except the harmonics.  That was all him.

Are you sure he wasn't in anyway inspired or influenced by the music of Domenico Dragonetti who incorporated the idea of using the harmonics on the double bass as part of the tune rather famously (in classical double bass playing circles at least) somewhere around 150 years before Jaco.

 

Skip forward to 1:20 to get to the bit where the harmonics start being used prominently

 

[fleabag]

Thats no argument. Almost everyone is influenced by someone throughout most of musical history

[yorks5stringer]

I take the OP's point and all the others too. My definitive (and authoritative)  response is:

 

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks

[OliverBlackman]

33 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Quote

Are you sure he wasn't in anyway inspired or influenced by the music of Domenico Dragonetti who incorporated the idea of using the harmonics on the double bass as part of the tune rather famously (in classical double bass playing circles at least) somewhere around 150 years before Jaco.

He actually studied violin books which is where he claimed to find most of the harmonics from. Bassists were already tuning using harmonics before that anyway.

 

[OliverBlackman]

5 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

""As I've not got much going on today I'll offer a thought. A common analogy for music is often that it is like a language. So, say someone is speaking Chinese and you don't understand it, does that make it nonsense? Of course not, if you learnt Chinese you would probably understand it. It can be argued that it is the same with music. If you learnt and enjoyed jazz vocabulary that is similar to those that influenced Jaco, the chances are you will then enjoy it because you can relate to it. "

 

However, to take that analogy further - you can understand another language perfectly, but still not like what the person is saying.

I was dismissing the reference to it being "nonsense". I don't actually like all things Jaco myself, although I can't actually play half of it.

[steve-bbb]

3 hours ago, The Jaywalker said:

This. We tend to like what we readily understand, regardless of musical style. 

This

hes sort of like Miles Davis... stellar improv skills and NEVER played a wrong note 

[project_c]

All these Jaco threads always come down to 2 things: taste and jazz language. 

1. Taste - pointless debate, it's like trying to convince someone to like cheese when they just don't like the way it tastes.

2. Jazz language - if you are interested in jazz, then complex use of language are going to interest you. If not, it's just going to sound like a mess. 

I like jazz but I can fully see how it sounds like random fart noises to others. Meanwhile I hate old rock music, especially Geezer Butler / Sabbath etc, I think it sounds like a car crash covered in stale lager and piss. But I don't feel like my musical taste is any more or less valid because of that, it's nice to like different things.

You don't have to like Picasso to be a great artist, and in the same way you don't have to like Jaco to be a great bassist.

 

[Earbrass]

49 minutes ago, steve-bbb said:

hes sort of like Miles Davis... stellar improv skills and NEVER played a wrong note 

... he played all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. 

[Bilbo]

2 hours ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Are you sure he wasn't in anyway inspired or influenced by the music of Domenico Dragonetti who incorporated the idea of using the harmonics on the double bass as part of the tune rather famously (in classical double bass playing circles at least) somewhere around 150 years before Jaco.

 

Skip forward to 1:20 to get to the bit where the harmonics start being used prominently

 

I seriously doubt it. It is not at all uncommon for people to 'discover' things independently of each other. Besides, Jaco's approach was very different to this.

[fleabag]

26 minutes ago, Earbrass said:

... he played all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. 

How do you know they weren't necessarily in the right order  ?

[lowdown]

Plenty of love for Jaco here. When he burst onto the scene it was a breath of fresh air. My ears hear plenty of groove, lovely lyrical phrasing and solid technique.

Later on there was stuff that I thought was nonsense, but that was more than likely to do with his problems. He also had a decent pair of Piano chops.

Something else about Jaco was his talent for arranging and composing. Loved the big band stuff.

Terrific musician.

 

[Earbrass]

4 hours ago, fleabag said:

How do you know they weren't necessarily in the right order  ?

Seriously?   Perhaps I'm getting old - I thought everyone would get the reference.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNYUJIW4sw    @2.25)

Edited November 20, 2017 by Earbrass

[fleabag]

Some  can think but not in the right order. 

[neilp]

"Without Mozart there would be no Beethoven"

Really? Beethoven would have been as great as he was regardless. Without Haydn He and Mozart might have been lesser, or different. The greats take from what went before, but don't depend on it. I'm not a Jaco fan at all, but I will happily acknowledge his talent and technical ability. I just think he wasted most of it

[NickA]

I'm a huge Jaco fan.  But all the same:

I think I agree ....he noodled a deal (especially live)... but for me that doesn't detract from his genius any more than John Coltranes trips into (to me) unlistenable chaos, detract from his.

I'm a huge Beethoven fan .. and who knows how he'd have sounded if he'd never a) heard Mozart b) had his dad trying to make him into Mozart, but he'd have had a lot more ground to cover before even getting to his 2nd Symphony (ie the one he wrote first, before writing a much more Mozarty one - his 1st - second, for the sake of popularity).

Off to bed, after working a night shift, before I disapear up my own pseuds corner :¬)

[Geek99]

22 hours ago, thebigyin said:

Thanks for the replies guyz....i know Jaco is undoubtedly a one off and extremely talented Bassist but personally i like Bassist's who play for the song i have never been a fan of soloists be it....Bass, Guitar, Drums or any instrument to be honest i like a good pocket and groove or a tasty Guitar riff as long as it's for the song and band....i know everyone is individual in their musical tastes i know he has a multitude of disciples who odolise and want to follow suit but give me a good funky bass groove and a tight rhythm section anytime or a good Rock song...But I can appreciate folks who want to push the boundaries of music just not for me thanks again 

 

Totally agree

[ivansc]

There IS a dividing line in my mind between the cerebral bass players, who are in reality frustrated lead instrument players, like Les Claypool & Stanley Clarke, although at least Claypool doesnt need an extra bass player, and someone like Jaco who - in spite of all his issues - had the chops and a musical sensibility to pull it all together. Mind you, without exception I much preferred his playing when he was a supporting player and serving the song.

And I would probably enjoy listening to Chuck Rainey filling the same role rather than showing us his funky chops.

Both incredible players.

 

[Guest]

Well. Another Jaco thread. Yawn!

[Bluewine]

On 11/20/2017 at 07:31, The Jaywalker said:

Whether someone played on hit records or not is of zero relevance in a qualitative comparison with other players. It's the music which counts, not sales or popularity. 

I'm a jazz bassist primarily, but when I play BG I'm far more interested and inspired by these guys than Jaco too ;-)

I'm not inspired by Jaco either 

It's hard for me to be inspired by someone where there's no way on earth I could replicate or draw from such a high level of skill, talent and ability.

Blue

[visog]

Stupid thread... the jazz (and rock) music worlds are shrinking so quickly and this is what we're discussing?

[Bluewine]

1 minute ago, visog said:

Stupid thread... the jazz (and rock) music worlds are shrinking so quickly and this is what we're discussing?

I would never call any thread stupid.

However, you make a good point. The rock world is shrinking fast. I can't speak for jazz.

Blue