No real love for Jaco

[White Cloud]

Music is the art of sound and art is subjective...thus there are no rules.

Some say that variety is the spice of life. This thread is akin to me declaring that my favourite dinner is fish and chips and that I hate Chicken tikka masala - then pointlessly debating with everyone else out there in basschatland who loves Indian food.

Pointless.

[fleabag]

You'll find many such threads

[krismpos]

2 hours ago, White Cloud said:

Music is the art of sound and art is subjective...thus there are no rules.

Some say that variety is the spice of life. This thread is akin to me declaring that my favourite dinner is fish and chips and that I hate Chicken tikka masala - then pointlessly debating with everyone else out there in basschatland who loves Indian food.

Pointless.

This. Art is not supposed to be pretty every single time. 

[Frank Blank]

On 11/22/2017 at 15:23, jazzmanb said:

Yeah,possibly.

Regards "new" i think Mick Karn was unique and well under appreciated and i've never heard anything like him before or since.

Would he have been without Jaco ? who knows.

+17 for Mick Karn, one of my favourite bass players, as you say, well under appreciated. It's a good point, would he have existed without Jaco? His influences were so peculiar and left field I choose to think he would, but then, Jaco did change bass playing fundamentally. Ach, who knows, just great to remember that wobbly Wall deliciousness. Japan on the drive home then.

[jazzmanb]

19 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

+17 for Mick Karn, one of my favourite bass players, as you say, well under appreciated. It's a good point, would he have existed without Jaco? His influences were so peculiar and left field I choose to think he would, but then, Jaco did change bass playing fundamentally. Ach, who knows, just great to remember that wobbly Wall deliciousness. Japan on the drive home then.

Reading his book there's no "i heard this and had to get a bass! moments,he played woodwind stuff and you can hear his Eastern influences from his family so i think he would have always been off the wall and he picked Bass

[neilp]

This all makes me laugh. How many of you guys would complain about pointless threads if the OP posted an opinion you agreed with? It's a debate, nothing wrong with a debate. Purely opinion. State your opinion, be prepared to back it up if you need to, and respect other people's opinion. It's all a matter of taste, no one is right or wrong.

That doesn't mean it's pointless though. The discussion has made me go back and give Jaco another listen (no change in my opinion), and also dig out the Japan (forgotten how interesting and individual MK was). That's a good thing, so thanks....

[thebigyin]

Thanks for everyone's replies some divided opinions which I expected...like I say in my original quote...Jaco was extremely talented but just not my cup of tea....Each to their own it would be a terribly boring life if everyone was in the same Bassist's...there's so many talented Bassists out there and most offer something to someone, all the best Bob 

[louisthebass]

Lost count of the number of times the Jaco thing has been brought up on here and it's getting really boring.

You either like him or you don't, end of....

[fleabag]

Then dont read the thread !!!

[Bluewine]

4 minutes ago, louisthebass said:

Lost count of the number of times the Jaco thing has been brought up on here and it's getting really boring.

You either like him or you don't, end of....

There will always be Jaco threads.

I wonder why?

Blue

[louisthebass]

1 minute ago, Bluewine said:

There will always be Jaco threads.

I wonder why?

Blue

Probably because he was an innovative bassist for his time, and that's carried on through to bass playing (mainly in the funk / jazz / fusion genres) up until the present day. The one thing that this thread proves is that (love him or hate him) JP wasn't mediocre.

@fleabag - yep, you're absolutely right I don't have to read the thread.

[Bluewine]

7 minutes ago, louisthebass said:

Probably because he was an innovative bassist for his time, and that's carried on through to bass playing (mainly in the funk / jazz / fusion genres) up until the present day. The one thing that this thread proves is that (love him or hate him) JP wasn't mediocre.

@fleabag

Exactly my point.

Blue

[interpol52]

Jaco had it all. He had so much grove and soul.

The improvisational stuff sounds like a bassist playing trumpet bebop. Good, but not for everyone. Without Jaco....

[oldbass]

Your all missing the point.

When he hit back in 70's it was like hearing something from Mars. Like it or not he was then totally unique, mind blowing and individual..trouble is now there's a whole room full of players who basically copied him..that's why unless you were there  he now seems slightly meh...if still not brilliant.

[wateroftyne]

12 minutes ago, oldbass said:

Your all missing the point.

When he hit back in 70's it was like hearing something from Mars. Like it or not he was then totally unique, mind blowing and individual..trouble is now there's a whole room full of players who basically copied him..that's why unless you were there  he now seems slightly meh...if still not brilliant.

I don't think everyone's missing the point.

[Yank]

I love Jaco for his tone. The fretless through a chorus that goes MUWAHHHHH.  That's what I think of when I think of Jaco.  Don't really care for the songs,  the folks he played with or the style he played.  To me that's irrelevant.  He was the first to do that tone.  Sometimes I do it because it's so lovely.  I know I'm copping Jaco,  and I know there might be at least one person in the audience who knows what I'm doing.  When I hear other bassists do it,  it makes me smile.  We know we're copping Jaco.  When Jaco was alive,  he hated it when other's copped his tone.  Now that he's passed,  I hope it's seen as a tribute.  We do it to honor the man,  not steal his greatness.

[dmccombe7]

When i was first learning bass after the initial knowing where the notes on the bass were and a year of lessons i came across several Jazz bassists incl Jaco. 

I was listening to Weather Report and Mahavishnu styles simply because i had never heard bass played like that before and it intrigued me. I used that style to my advantage and was able to use some of it in Rock and Prog bands i played with at the time. 

I wasn't a fan of the music to be honest but the bass playing on those kind of albums was way beyond the standard bassists i had previously been listening to.

So for me i wasn't a big fan of the music but there were so many great bass parts to learn and that in itself made it interesting for me.

Like most Jazz / Fusion style of music i find that sometimes it works and other times it just sounds like an ego trip to me with no musicality (is that an actual word ? )

Back then Jaco was the bassist that others tried to emulate even in professional circles and because of that he has to be one of the most influential bassists at that time.

Things have move on since those days with people like Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller, Mark King, Victor Wooten, Steve Bailey and they have all been influential to many bassists during their peak periods. That how bass playing develops thru time. Poeple push boundaries and others take up the mantle to try and push it further.

At one time bass was either a walkng bass or 4 notes to a bar just as a basic rhythm section. Now it is being used as a lead intrument.

Maybe we should be classing bass as Progressive    

Dave

[Old Man Riva]

Whilst his playing wasn't/isn't to everyone's taste his legacy regarding the electric bass guitar should never be diminished and is almost beyond compare in terms of players generations later looking to emulate him and (some would say rip off) his sound - see also James Jamerson and Larry Graham.

If we consider how many incredible musicians there have through time few leave a legacy whereby their sound/tone/style is emulated almost on a daily basis (you could argue that Hendrix would be a good example from a guitar perspective).

In the 80s you couldn't move for bassists rolling off the neck p/up on a Jazz and playing right next to the bridge - it was everywhere. The 90s brought Acid Jazz and, again, those urgent and funky sixteenth note lines, and as Joe Dart is heavily referenced (quite rightly, in my opinion) as one of the leading lights of today's electric bass playing, for me, the sound he is closest to, is that of Jaco. 

And without Jaco there wouldn't have been Rhythm Stick, and for that alone he deserves all the acclaim he gets! 

[Guest bassman7755]

On 11/20/2017 at 11:15, Barking Spiders said:

 I get a tad irritated when people suggest I should give such and such time to sink in then I'll appreciate it. B*llocks sez I. 

Life to short to force yourself to listen to stuff you just flat out don't like. The thing is if you don't like particular genre then your not going to be tuned in to the actual musical content, at best you will be limited to evaluating it purely in a technical/cleverness level which is completely missing the point.

There are loads of revered musicians that I cant bare to listen to 10 seconds of, it is what it is, I've long since stopped trying to rationalise it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by bassman7755

[bassjim]

The older I get the more I find everything he did mindblowing. 

When I was younger I didn't even realise that most of the players I liked  were copping him. I didn't get that first solo album at first either. But as time has passed and my musical tastes have expanded and changed I find I now "get it". When I came in at about 14-15 years old I was very much into level 42 and thought fast slapping and anything with loads o notes was the  coolest of cool. Its a teenager thing  perhaps. I thought things like Chinese Way were all things that Mark King had come up with off the top of his head. Mark has later on said that he was trying to roll Stanley Clarke and Jaco into one thing which when you listen to those early things is now very clear.

 But Jaco.... For me its,  musically speaking,  sonic works of art. I hear something he does and just think wow. I don't necessarily want to learn how to play it all note for note  but the influence without a doubt is there in most things I play. On a gig I might chuck in a little something here and there that is so Jaco but at the same time I couldn't even pretend I'm on his level. I never will be and neither will the majority of players that actually do like him. But I do get it and it floats my boat so to speak.

I think its ok to not be bowled over by it and I'm in no way saying that anyone hasn't got good ears or taste just because they don't like it or get it. If I play Jaco solo stuff like Donna Lee or Weather Report to my wife and she gives me a blank look. I play her "I Can Dig It Baby" or "Come On Come Over" and then its oh yeah this is good.

[Sjan3]

On 11/20/2017 at 01:30, thebigyin said:

I know this will open a can of worms but personally i just don't get the fuss??? Admittedly he was unique and extremely talented but some of the stuff in my opinion is just a muddled up row....millions of tuneless notes played at extreme pace. Give me Jamerson anytime a master of Groove....i can feel my ears burning already lol.....Jaco played some memorable stuff but just not a fan of that nonsense noodling sorry 

 

Jaco was the Jimi Hendrix of bass. Before him, NOBODY played at that level. Since his passing others may have eclipsed his playing but, make no mistake, he forged a new and expressive path that NOBODY had ever gone down. 

Some of his work was sketchy, usually the result of his drug abuse and mental issues, but there was genius in the man. Hell, he was only 36 when he died. Consider how EVERY PLAYER in the 70s went running to the woodshed to try and figure out what he was playing. Nope, electric bass has never been the same since. 

Much respect to Jamerson but there were others, Babbit, Kaye, Ralphie Armstrong, Stanley and others who might have been lotted with Jamerson, but NOBODY approached Jaco's genius other than, maybe, Jeff Berlin. 

Ok, You know how I feel. ?

Edited November 28, 2017 by Sjan3

[Passinwind]

On 11/20/2017 at 02:39, Bilbo said:

That Dry Cleaner From Des Moines clip is a 12 bar blues taken far out but there is nothing random about it. It isn't a Motown pop song. It is a Jazz blues and goes where it goes. It was clearly a showcase for Brecker and Jaco and Don Alias let go a bit. The rest of the gig was incredibly tasteful. In France The Kiss On Main Street is pure Jameson. 

Yep. I saw one of the concerts on that tour and it literally had 12,000 people on their feet. Not an easy ask for a jazz fusion band. Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. And vive la difference.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Passinwind
value added

[Bluewine]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:30, bassman7755 said:

Life to short to force yourself to listen to stuff you just flat out don't like. The thing is if you don't like particular genre then your not going to be tuned in to the actual musical content, at best you will be limited to evaluating it purely in a technical/cleverness level which is completely missing the point.

There are loads of revered musicians that I cant bare to listen to 10 seconds of, it is what it is, I've long since stopped trying to rationalise it.

Big difference between not liking and not understanding historical or musical value.

I'm not a Jaco fan. I don't even listen to him. But I sure as hell understand and love what he did for the electric bass..

It's a big picture thing for me, it's never about what I like or don't like.

Blue

[Bluewine]

On 11/26/2017 at 03:33, wateroftyne said:

I don't think everyone's missing the point.

Not everyone but a few are.

Blue

[chris_b]

His style is not for me, but he single handedly started a unique and completely different style of playing. Something that had not been seen on the electric bass before so Jaco is pretty special anyway you look at him.

I did check him out in the 90's and bought The Birthday Concert when it came out, but my preference for Joni Mitchell is when she used less idiosyncratic bass players.