need to make quick decision - help me decide

[XoSo]

Ok, I am on the verge of ordering a Fender Flea bass but though I'd take a quick look on Reverb and came across this:

https://reverb.com/item/6946987-fender-jazz-bass-ri-62-1995-1996-vintage-white

I put in a low ball offer of £650 and they have countered with offer of 750 euros plus 50 euros postage (works out at about £711 total, the Flea is £949). I now have about 12 hours to accept the offer and I'm torn with indecision. I'm relatively new to bass so haven't got a lot of experience to go on and It's not practical to go to Spain to try the MIJ.

I like the look of both. They are both vintage re-issues ('61 in the case of the flea, '62 in the case of this MIJ) but I have no idea which is a better instrument. The MIJ is over twenty years old now so would it have developed a better tone as the wood seasons?  I'd be saving £238 if I bought the MIJ, but would I regret not spending that little bit extra to get the Flea.

What would you go for?

[BassBunny]

The difficulty with a "what would you buy" post is that inevitably you will get responses from owners of either bass saying "get this".

Firstly can you counter the counter offer to give you a bit more time?

As someone who owns neither bass I would do a For/Against list for each and see if that tips the scales and then buy the 62 RI MIJ.

[Steve Browning]

I might be inclined to get to a music shop and try out a Jazz bass to see if you are likely to get on with the bass at all. You may hate the thing when you strap one on.

[XoSo]

no steve, that's a known. I have tried Jazz basses and know I want a passive jazz bass with a vintage vibe so both tick those boxes, just don't know which one

Edited November 20, 2017 by XoSo

[XoSo]

One thing that has just occurred to me though. Will I be hit with vat/import duties on this as it's in Spain or is it exempt as we are in the EU?

[Lozz196]

The Flea was recently reviewed in Bass Guitar Magazine and their verdict was a great bass, but with a darker tone than would be expected from a Jazz bass, in case that helps your choice.

[Marc S]

Just took a look at the for sale ad, and there's a "3 used available" button you can click on
https://reverb.com/p/fender-jb62-62-reissue-jazz-bass-mij-aged-white
Or am I being daft, and this is the same one?

I can't comment on the MIJ '62RI per se - as I've not played one of these exact models. I have however, played several MIJ / CIJ Fenders, and they've all been really good basses
Somehow, the necks on them feel lovely....
However, I have owned a Fender Flea Jazz, and just to add to your confusion - that was also a really nice bass, and yes, the Fender Roadworn series of necks also feel absolutely lovely.... sorry
Again, I don't know quite how they achieve that "worn-in" or "played in" feel with the roadworn series, but achieve it they have

I must say of the Fender Flea, it's the lightest weight Jazz I have played. (and I've owned 3 Jazzes, and played quite a few more) At first, I wasn't a fan of the stacked knob arrangement of controls. I know this arrangement has many fans, who would all quote flexibility of tone and control as being better - but I found it harder to get the tone I wanted as quickly as with the standard VVT arrangement of controls.... again, it's personal preference

The MIJ bass is probably the more "collectible", for those with whom that is an issue. And IMO, it's a lovely aged white (I do like that off-white creamy colour some basses seem to go)
Both have their plus points, it's just down to how you feel about each one

Do you live near any other BC member who owns either one of these basses? Could you post an ad, asking for help /  a try-out? Most BC'ers are very friendly, helpful sorts and would be only too willing to let you have a play of their Jazz
As has already been asked, could you counter the sellers counter offer? Might be worth a try

Just thought of a plus for the MIJ. If you didn't like a Flea Jazz and had bought it brand new - you'd lose money if selling on.... but you'd likely get more of your money back on the MIJ if you sold that on....

[Marc S]

Me again!
On clicking that "3 more available" link
It leads you to this one - bit more "roadworn" but another option?
https://reverb.com/uk/item/7187550-fender-japan-jb62-62-vintage-jazz-bass-reissue-made-in-japan-1993-1994-vintage-white-1311

[XoSo]

Some good points there Marc and no. you are not being daft. There are three for sale but just from different dealers - the cheap one at £350+ quid is in Japan so attracts import duty and hefty postage and it's quite beat up. The other one is in France.  I own a crafted in Japan Tele and have to say it's one of the nicest Fenders I 've ever owned so I'm tempted to put more faith in MIJ quality than MIM but as you say, all the reviews of the Flea I've read rave about it. The one thing I was unsure about was how good MIJ products were in the mid-nineties. I know Fender have gone through low points in quality control over the years  but I suspect Japan have always had higher standards. 

[Marc S]

Yes, the MIJ / CIJ basses I've owned & played have all been great
But honestly, the Roadworn series might be MIM, but they're a cut above any other MIM Fenders I've played
And some of those MIM's have been excellent too! The Roadworn basses are quite something else
Made on a different "line" to other MIM's, using higher grade wood & components.
Someone also suggested they were finished in the US.... Not 100% sure of that, but they really are superb

..... I know, that hasn't helped! lol
EDIT: I really liked the aged colour on the cheaper one in Japan too
Yes, import charges can be rather expensive, so you're right to bear that in mind....

Edited November 20, 2017 by Marc S

[Lozz196]

Yes the necks on MIJ Fenders are, imo, their selling point. All of the Japanese Fenders I`ve either owned or played have been incredible on this aspect. That said, as Marc has pinted out the Road Worn necks are amazing, just like those comfy old slippers/jogging bottoms you ahve, just so comfortable from the start.

[Marc S]

Just now, Lozz196 said:

Yes the necks on MIJ Fenders are, imo, their selling point. All of the Japanese Fenders I`ve either owned or played have been incredible on this aspect. That said, as Marc has pinted out the Road Worn necks are amazing, just like those comfy old slippers/jogging bottoms you ahve, just so comfortable from the start.

As Lozz says, the RW necks really are somehow really comfy to play
Also, although they are quite glossy - they never seem to get sticky to play, when your hands get hot.... that's my experience of them anyhow
BTW. I once owned a Flea, as I already mentioned.... and now getting GAS for one again!

[Pea Turgh]

I’m not a fan of the synthetic roadworn look. I’d pick the Japanese one.

Plus, excellent point made above - you won’t lose money with the Japanese version... and what if roadworn goes out of fashion?!?!

[XoSo]

Thanks for all your input guys, it's much appreciated. Despite the fact that these sort of open ended questions rarely achieve a consensus it's actually been quite useful. I did follow bass bunnies suggestion of compiling a for and against (in my head anyway)  and found that useful. To borrow a naff expression from our American cousins I think I'm about to 'pull the trigger' on the MIJ '62. I'm putting my reasons down in print just to make sure they make sense when I read them back to myself but also if any of you think I've missed anything or come to any wrong conclusions your input will still be appreciated (at least for the next couple of hours until I accept the offer).

So why do I want a new bass as a beginner first off? Well I'm currently using  copy of a Stingray by Vintage. I love the tone of it and the action is great but I don't think it's a particularly accurate copy as the neck is like a baseball bat (I've never played a real Music Man but I'm told the necks are quite slim).  I only have medium sized hands and whilst I don't find it impossible to play it could be more comfortable. I don't know how old it is but it's a JHS Encore product made in India, so possibly pre- Trevor Wilkinson. I also find the single pickup frustrating because it's in the wrong place (for me) to use a thumb rest, thus the desire to buy a Jazz bass with a slimmer neck profile and dual pickups.

So as far as that goes both basses would answer my requirements.

What do I like about the Flea Bass? Well let me say straight away I'm no particular fan of falsely  'aged' finished and I'm not even really a fan of Flea. I think one of the first things I'd have to do is take the cheesy Flea neck plate off and replace it with a plain one. I do LOVE shell pink guitars although from what I've heard it's a very faded almost grey shell pink anyway. I like the dual concentric controls but if i'm honest I think it's only the aesthetics that appeal and the fact that they are a bit different from the norm. I'm just a bedroom player at the moment so the advantage of having extra tone control at my fingertips is largely lost on me. I do like nitro finishes on guitars - I hate over shiny plasticky finishes (I considered a Sire briefly but their over glossy finishes is what  disqualified them). And of course, everyone raves about the Flea bass - I'm, in absolutely no doubt it's a brilliant bass. Owning two MIM classic player strats I really don't have any doubts about MIM quality. What don't I like about them? Well that Flea neckplate of course. I'm not a great fan of roadworn finishes although I think this one looks better than most but what I would find very annoying is the fact that they have applied a nice aged patina to the machine heads and control plate but just plonked a shiny new bridge on it.

What do I like about the MIJ? Well Olympic white (particularly aged to nice pale yellow) is definitely up there with shell pink as one of  my favourite colours. What this guitar has is nice naturally aged patina as it's already over twenty years old. I don't know whether I'm right but I would think those twenty years will have helped season the wood and improve the tone as well. It's also a bit rarer than the flea. There are a lot of Fleas knocking about at the moment  but on the whole of Reverb there are only two MIJ '62 RI's in Europe. Resale value isn't that important to me - I tend to not sell equipment on which is why I currently have 19 guitars but it's still a factor to consider. I probably wouldn't ever get less than I've paid for the MIJ whereas Fleas are already available second hand at 30% discount on new. (although that will probably change if Fender discontinue them).

So what are my concerns on the MIJ? Well I know very little about it - what the pickups are like for instance although as it's meant to be a 62 reissue I would hope they'd be similar to those on the Flea. I don't know what build quality was like on MIJ basses in the 90s although I've never particularly heard of Japanese Fenders suffering the same dips in quality as American. And I suppose if there were any faults on it when it left the factory, after twenty years they would have been sorted. I suppose the only other slight worry is buying from Spain - will it arrive through the postal system in good nick, what is my redress if it doesn't?

In the final analysis the flea doesn't really offer me anything more than the MIJ and the MIJ is nearly £250 cheaper. Saving money is not critical but having said that £250 is not to be sniffed at. I'm currently just using a little Vox Pathfiner for an amp and that £250 could go a long way to buying a decent Class D amp head to go with my new bass.

So there you go guys - I'm 95% certain it will be the MIJ but if you think I'll regret speak up now!!

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by XoSo

[XoSo]

One last question guys. I've just put a counter offer in to buy a little more. I've managed to convince myself the MIJ is the right choice but now I'm getting a nagging doubt that it might be fake or put together from parts. I know if I get a Flea from Andertons I'm getting the real deal. Help me out here guys, does everything you see In the photos look kosher?

[LoneFurrow]

Not wanting to derail your quest too much, but it might be worth looking at Bass Direct. They have three MIJ Jazz basses in stock at the moment, and at least they're somewhat more local than Spain. I appreciate their stock may not be in your preferred colours though. The white MIJ Jazz looks straight enough from the pics, at least as far as I can tell. 

Good luck whichever way you decide to go! 

 

[Marc S]

Hi again XoSo,
Re your nagging doubt - I'm not sure you can tell from those photos whether it has been put together from parts.
I know you are importing it from abroad, but perhaps a little research into what the company selling it is like...

Remember - they won't want to be getting a bad reputation for selling fake / knock-off gear. The serial number & decal on the neck look fine to me
Harder to tell with the body & electrics without seeing some pics of it disassembled and looking a serial numbers & info on the pots, and looking at any marks / labels & stickers or date stamps in the neck pocket

Yes, the Flea bass is a rather faded version of shell pink. I too like Pink basses.... for some reason - I think it's a rather cool colour

Re the roadworn / reliced issue - I understand people don't particularly like it. However, the relicing on the Fender RW series is rather good and quite convincing
Also, the relicing is not the only difference with the RW series - they are made from higher quality components, and are more carefully put together than other MIM's
They really are a cut above other MIM's - In fact, My RW Jazz was better than either US Jazzes I owned.... and not just marginally better either!
My RW Precision is the best P bass I've ever played... better than either of my US P's and even better than my 80's Japan Squier P....

The other point re relicing / roadwear that I hadn't even considered initially.... I wasn't a fan of relicing either.....
But there's something quite liberating about gigging an instrument that you aren't too "precious" about
For example - I had a rather expensive, mint condition Rick bass. First gig, the singer caught his foot around a cable - and pulled a cymbal stand over.... crash!
Hitting my bass with a glancing blow on the way! Second gig (different band) guitarist was moving some lighting stands about, and knocked it from behind - I just managed to catch it,
before it fell forward - it could even have fallen off stage, as there wasn't much room on that small stage
My point being, that if it's already got knocks & bumps - you won't worry about a few more.... That's not to say I go around whacking my bass with a hammer - I don't
But it's an ideal gigging bass, as I'm not over-protective or worried everytime a drummer or singer walk past it closely.....

If you do have any doubts about the MIJ - then perhaps a visit to Bass Direct is a good suggestion. You will able to sit down & try it out first, or even compare it with other basses
Patience may be the best way forward - as you already have a decent, useable bass - take your time & take care with your next purchase
Perhaps even consider buying a different Jazz, from someone on this very forum? You'll get more for your money buying used
Pop along to a nearby bass bash, next time there's one near you - meet some fellow BC'ers who will be only too happy to talk all things bass related

One last point. I owned a MusicMan Stingray. Lovely quality construction, lovely sound BUT - it was very heavy, and the neck was chunky.... very vhunky - anything but slim!
I know some people prefer that - but like you, I don't. I prefer a Fender C shape / profile neck, or a Jazz neck. I played a MM Sub a while back, and while it clearly didn't have the feel of quality about it - the neck was a far better fit for my hands

Edited November 21, 2017 by Marc S

[Pea Turgh]

Buy the MIJ and it’ll all be fine!

[ead]

I had a Seafoam MIJ 62RI Jazz, cracking bass, no idea why I sold it.  Probably chuffin' GAS.

[Steve Browning]

As you see from my signature I have a number of MIJ basses. They are all, without exception, extremely well made instruments and exceed any expectations based on the cost. I remember a member posting that they had cut through the copper strip between the bridge pickup and the bridge. Don't do that!

 

Buy the MIJ and enjoy a great bass.

[XoSo]

Just a quick update, the seller has now countered my counter to her counter (lol) with an offer of 740 euros + 50 euros postage - works out at a smidgeon over £700 all in. Think I'm going to go for it. Some very good points made by Marc in favour of the Flea Bass but I figure as its still a current production model I can always get one at a later date. I've got a few hours before the offer is retracted but reckon that's what i'll do.

[Marc S]

You are quite right XoSo - the Flea bass is probably more easy to get hold of, currently
And the longer you are a BC member - the more you are likely to suffer GAS for one, or for another bass in future  lol

Anyhow, as I've said, and as Steve Browning says above - MIJ / CIJ Fenders are really well made instruments
In the past in fact, I've seen them sell for rather less than I personally would value them....

I'm glad you've come to your own decision. I know asking such questions about "which is best" is always a matter of the opinions of individuals,
but it's good to hear what other people think about basses they've owned, based on their good, bad or indifferent experiences.....
It sounds like you have been given some food for thought in this matter, and I'm glad BC members were here to help you come to a decision

Now, if you don't like your new MIJ Jazz.... you can always sell it on here, or trade it for a Flea
But from my experiences of Japan Fenders..... I'm sure it'll be a keeper
Happy NBD, and don't forget to post some photos and a little review
Cheers - enjoy

[XoSo]

'Tis bought and paid for! Now just the long wait for it to arrive from Spain! Pics to follow. Thanks all.

[MikanHannille]

Good man. I'd get the MIJ too in a heart beat.

[XoSo]

Well after a week of anxious waiting Father Christmas finally arrived at my house today disguised as a TNT Delivery man. After a frantic unwrapping my new beauty was revealed and what a gorgeous beast she is. First impressions; wow, superlight compared to my brickbat of a stingray copy and the neck is so much slimmer and more comfortable. It also came with a nice padded Fender gig bag and the Japanese inspection ticket and manual. The strings had been slackened off for transport as I had expected but on tuning it up it became quickly apparent there was a serious problem. There is serious fret buzz from about the tenth fret up on all four strings to the point where it is actually unplayable. Knowing this was more than serious than a bit of fettling with the action I whipped it down to the guitar tech at GuitarGuitar (which is fortunately at the bottom of my road) and he confirmed my fears with a no holes barred 'yep, the neck is dead'. I've left it with him and he is going to phone me tomorrow to tell me if it can be sorted with truss rod adjustment but I'm probably going to have a sleepless night tonight. How can they sell a guitar in that state, or is it possible that the neck has warped in transit with all the strings being slackened off?